The Insane Vaccine Debate
We've had mandatory vaccine policies in the U.S. since before the Emancipation Proclamation. Why are they controversial now?
thefederalist.com
The insane vaccine debate
- Thread starter *33*
- Start date
thefederalist.com
FWIW: turns out, the anti-vaxxer/autism crew was 100% wrong on their take
Vaccines may PROTECT against ASD
Serious infections are actually linked to autism, not vaccines.
www.the-scientist.com
“We knew that mutations predispose [people] for autism, but if you look in patients with genetic mutations, not everyone with that mutation has autism, and the question is why?” says neuroscientist Alcino Silva of University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). One such type of mutation, linked to autism in about half of the people who carry the variants, are in the tuberous sclerosis complex 1 or 2 genes and can have a range of symptoms in addition to autism. Mice with a mutation in Tsc2 have some of the same symptoms, but until about a decade ago, the social deficits that can show up in people with the mutations had not been recreated in the mouse model. Then, in 2010, Silva’s group showed that challenging the immune systems of pregnant mice caused ASD-like behavior in their Tsc2 mutant offspring.
...
Finally, in what he calls “a Hail Mary,” Silva asked a friend, computational biologist Andrey Rzhetsky of the University of Chicago, to look at dataset of more than 3.5 million health insurance claims to see if there was any relationship between severe infections and autism in humans. “He comes back months later and says, ‘That’s the biggest association I’ve ever found in this dataset,’” says Silva. Male children, regardless of genetic status, who were hospitalized with infections between the ages of 18 months and four years were 40 percent more likely to be diagnosed with ASD later than were boys who weren’t hospitalized for infections, while for girls, hospitalization for infection at this age was associated with a 30 percent greater chance of ASD diagnosis. The difference for girls was not statistically significant, however.
“This paper has to be [understood] as proof that you need to vaccinate your kids,” since infectious diseases can not only be fatal, but can also raise the risk of ASD among children who survive, says coauthor Manuel López Aranda, a neuroscientist at UCLA.
Vaccines may PROTECT against ASD
Serious infections are actually linked to autism, not vaccines.
Serious Infections Linked to Autism: Study
In both a mouse model and the hospital records of more than 3 million children, researchers found a connection between strong immune activation in males and later symptoms of autism spectrum disorder.
www.the-scientist.com
“We knew that mutations predispose [people] for autism, but if you look in patients with genetic mutations, not everyone with that mutation has autism, and the question is why?” says neuroscientist Alcino Silva of University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). One such type of mutation, linked to autism in about half of the people who carry the variants, are in the tuberous sclerosis complex 1 or 2 genes and can have a range of symptoms in addition to autism. Mice with a mutation in Tsc2 have some of the same symptoms, but until about a decade ago, the social deficits that can show up in people with the mutations had not been recreated in the mouse model. Then, in 2010, Silva’s group showed that challenging the immune systems of pregnant mice caused ASD-like behavior in their Tsc2 mutant offspring.
...
Finally, in what he calls “a Hail Mary,” Silva asked a friend, computational biologist Andrey Rzhetsky of the University of Chicago, to look at dataset of more than 3.5 million health insurance claims to see if there was any relationship between severe infections and autism in humans. “He comes back months later and says, ‘That’s the biggest association I’ve ever found in this dataset,’” says Silva. Male children, regardless of genetic status, who were hospitalized with infections between the ages of 18 months and four years were 40 percent more likely to be diagnosed with ASD later than were boys who weren’t hospitalized for infections, while for girls, hospitalization for infection at this age was associated with a 30 percent greater chance of ASD diagnosis. The difference for girls was not statistically significant, however.
“This paper has to be [understood] as proof that you need to vaccinate your kids,” since infectious diseases can not only be fatal, but can also raise the risk of ASD among children who survive, says coauthor Manuel López Aranda, a neuroscientist at UCLA.
The overwhelming majority of anti-vaccine arguments, for any disease, but just Covid have always been hysterical.
this is something that I truly blame the proliferation of social media, podcasts, that have allowed fringe lunatic theories to gain a wider audience.
this is something that I truly blame the proliferation of social media, podcasts, that have allowed fringe lunatic theories to gain a wider audience.
Showing proof you got vaccinated at 2 months old so that a school will let you attend in person IS NOT a mandate. Are you segregated in hotels and restaurants based on whether you got your polio shot? For those of you that think this has not gone overboard, you really have zero perspective on things.The Insane Vaccine Debate
We've had mandatory vaccine policies in the U.S. since before the Emancipation Proclamation. Why are they controversial now?
Compare polio deaths over the last 18 months to COVID deaths. See if you can identify a reason for different policies.
Is polio the same thing? We are in a polio pandemic situation now?
By your definition there is no mandate now nor is one being proposed. You should have no issue with the non-mandates.
I side far more right/libertarian than I do left (granted I'm speaking in terms 10 yrs ago and not today)....and it's insane to me how these groups do not recognize that public health is the 1 of 3ish things govt is for... it is really insanity. They don't believe in small govt they believe in anarchy (yes in reality they believe in govt as big than the other side)...of course unless it's the patriot act
Last edited:
BWAHAHAHAHA!!! People lined up for blocks to get their polio shots. ANYONE who tried to stop them would have been beaten to a pulp and ANYONE who used any kind of stage to denigrate the polio vaccine would have been ridden out of town on a rail. People THEN understood the dangers of these diseases. Let's do away with all vaccines...ALL of them...for a generation and see what happens. Maybe we need to introduce today's morans to the toll of these unchecked diseases.
Or maybe he should read up how many places refused to serve you (or accommodate) if you didn't "Show your scar"
People "lived" them back then.
People today have no concept of what that was like.
What percent of those 3.5 million were vaccinated?FWIW: turns out, the anti-vaxxer/autism crew was 100% wrong on their take
Vaccines may PROTECT against ASD
Serious infections are actually linked to autism, not vaccines.
Serious Infections Linked to Autism: Study
In both a mouse model and the hospital records of more than 3 million children, researchers found a connection between strong immune activation in males and later symptoms of autism spectrum disorder.
“We knew that mutations predispose [people] for autism, but if you look in patients with genetic mutations, not everyone with that mutation has autism, and the question is why?” says neuroscientist Alcino Silva of University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). One such type of mutation, linked to autism in about half of the people who carry the variants, are in the tuberous sclerosis complex 1 or 2 genes and can have a range of symptoms in addition to autism. Mice with a mutation in Tsc2 have some of the same symptoms, but until about a decade ago, the social deficits that can show up in people with the mutations had not been recreated in the mouse model. Then, in 2010, Silva’s group showed that challenging the immune systems of pregnant mice caused ASD-like behavior in their Tsc2 mutant offspring.
...
Finally, in what he calls “a Hail Mary,” Silva asked a friend, computational biologist Andrey Rzhetsky of the University of Chicago, to look at dataset of more than 3.5 million health insurance claims to see if there was any relationship between severe infections and autism in humans. “He comes back months later and says, ‘That’s the biggest association I’ve ever found in this dataset,’” says Silva. Male children, regardless of genetic status, who were hospitalized with infections between the ages of 18 months and four years were 40 percent more likely to be diagnosed with ASD later than were boys who weren’t hospitalized for infections, while for girls, hospitalization for infection at this age was associated with a 30 percent greater chance of ASD diagnosis. The difference for girls was not statistically significant, however.
“This paper has to be [understood] as proof that you need to vaccinate your kids,” since infectious diseases can not only be fatal, but can also raise the risk of ASD among children who survive, says coauthor Manuel López Aranda, a neuroscientist at UCLA.
Sounds like an autism might be another word for ADE.
I’m in favor of the vaccine, but not mandated. Just found out today why a co-worker has been out now for 4 weeks. He finally gave permission to my boss to disclose why. Negative reaction to the 2nd vaccine shot. Before anyone asks, it was not disclosed which brand. Obviously not J&J.
He’s been in and out of the hospital over the last 4 weeks, but more in than out. What we were informed of today, is that they can’t keep his platelet count high enough to release him. Platelets need to be around 100 and his are around 15. It was also noted that this reaction was very, very rare and that there are only a handful of cases similar to this in the US.
No, I don’t know if he had any pre-existing conditions that would have caused this reaction.
So while I agree that the vaccine is good for the overall population, it’s instances like this that keep me from agreeing with mandates. After this, does anyone think this guy should have to have the vaccine to work? Fly? Eat at restaurants? Go to concerts? How about his family members? Should they be mandated to get the vaccine?
He’s been in and out of the hospital over the last 4 weeks, but more in than out. What we were informed of today, is that they can’t keep his platelet count high enough to release him. Platelets need to be around 100 and his are around 15. It was also noted that this reaction was very, very rare and that there are only a handful of cases similar to this in the US.
No, I don’t know if he had any pre-existing conditions that would have caused this reaction.
So while I agree that the vaccine is good for the overall population, it’s instances like this that keep me from agreeing with mandates. After this, does anyone think this guy should have to have the vaccine to work? Fly? Eat at restaurants? Go to concerts? How about his family members? Should they be mandated to get the vaccine?
You should never make public health recommendations on micro levels and only macro...does it suck that happened? Yes, of course ... but you can't make public health decisions based on individual accounts
That, or he got actual Covid before getting the 2nd shot.
None of us actually know, do we?
Within 8 weeks of the public offering of COVID-19 products to the 12-15-year-old age group, we found 19 times the expected number of myocarditis cases in the vaccination volunteers over background myocarditis rates for this age group. In addition, a 5-fold increase in myocarditis rate was observed subsequent to dose 2 as opposed to dose 1 in 15-year-old males.
www.sciencedirect.com
A Report on Myocarditis Adverse Events in the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) in Association with COVID-19 Injectable Biological Products
Following the global rollout and administration of the Pfizer Inc./BioNTech BNT162b2 and Moderna mRNA-1273 vaccines on December 17, 2020, in the Unite…
Within 8 weeks of the public offering of COVID-19 products to the 12-15-year-old age group, we found 19 times the expected number of myocarditis cases in the vaccination volunteers over background myocarditis rates for this age group. In addition, a 5-fold increase in myocarditis rate was observed subsequent to dose 2 as opposed to dose 1 in 15-year-old males.
A Report on Myocarditis Adverse Events in the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) in Association with COVID-19 Injectable Biological Products
Following the global rollout and administration of the Pfizer Inc./BioNTech BNT162b2 and Moderna mRNA-1273 vaccines on December 17, 2020, in the Unite…
What's the rate of myocarditis for infection? How many of those were severe? And or lead to death?
And, as you've been told countless times now: COVID has MUCH HIGHER RATES for myocarditis - EVEN FOR asymptomatic disease.
The DIFFERENCE with a vaccine, is you know EXACTLY when to look for it to avoid complications/bad outcomes.
And when you vaccinate, you know exactly when to look for myocarditis symptoms.
Covid, not so much.
Shhh don't let them know that their "natural" way /viral infections in general cause a ton of myocarditis....
but I guess you gotta latch on to something when looking like an idiot
But it took like 30 years to develop the Polio vaccine. I learned this when I road my horse and buggy down to the library to check the internet via a 56K modem and read an article on Netscape.
Polio
History of Vaccines is an educational resource by the College of Physicians of Philadelphia, one of the oldest professional medical organizations in the US.
www.historyofvaccines.org
Your liburry has one of them new-fangled computers? Well, la-te-da.But it took like 30 years to develop the Polio vaccine. I learned this when I road my horse and buggy down to the library to check the internet via a 56K modem and read an article on Netscape.
Polio
History of Vaccines is an educational resource by the College of Physicians of Philadelphia, one of the oldest professional medical organizations in the US.
The delivery methods have changed, but the message remains the same. Create the problem; offer the solution.
openvaers.com
COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room
Approximately 96 COVID-19 vaccines are at various stages of clinical development.1 At present, we have the interim results of four studies published in scientific journals (on the Pfizer–BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine,2 the Moderna–US National Institutes of Health [NIH] mRNA-1273 vaccine,3 the...
www.thelancet.com
Myo/Pericarditis
openvaers.com
The delivery methods have changed, but the message remains the same. Create the problem; offer the solution.
COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room
Approximately 96 COVID-19 vaccines are at various stages of clinical development.1 At present, we have the interim results of four studies published in scientific journals (on the Pfizer–BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine,2 the Moderna–US National Institutes of Health [NIH] mRNA-1273 vaccine,3 the...www.thelancet.comMyo/Pericarditis
oh good another old debunked study presented as breaking news
Fact Check-Why Relative Risk Reduction, not Absolute Risk Reduction, is most often used in calculating vaccine efficacy
Referring to a “peer reviewed study” published in medical journal The Lancet, users on social media have erroneously claimed that the reported efficacy rates for the available COVID-19 vaccines are “deceiving” and that the real rate of protection from immunization is much...
www.reuters.com
Lol. ‘Debunked’ by the Pfizer/Reuters man. No conflict thereoh good another old debunked study presented as breaking news
Fact Check-Why Relative Risk Reduction, not Absolute Risk Reduction, is most often used in calculating vaccine efficacy
Referring to a “peer reviewed study” published in medical journal The Lancet, users on social media have erroneously claimed that the reported efficacy rates for the available COVID-19 vaccines are “deceiving” and that the real rate of protection from immunization is much...
Lol. ‘Debunked’ by the Pfizer/Reuters man. No conflict there
The posts erroneously claim the article was a “peer reviewed study”, when it was actually a commentary by Piero Olliaro, Els Torreele and Michel Vaillant on April 20, featured in the Lancet Microbe here .
When asked about the claim, Olliaro, professor of poverty related infectious diseases at the Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health of Oxford University ( here ) told Reuters via email it was “extremely disappointing to see how information can be twisted.” He also said, “Bottom line: these vaccines are good public health interventions,” and added that in the commentary, “We do not say vaccines do not work.”
Why do we keep bitching about the Covid vaccine. Let’s start bitching about the people that can’t seem to fight off the virus to begin with. Let’s get rid of all of those people instead of the “antivaxers” then we wouldn’t have to talk about Covid anymore.
Lol - shank bitch slapped yet again. Not sure who gets it more often, he or your_masturbater. Lol
This just in:The delivery methods have changed, but the message remains the same. Create the problem; offer the solution.
COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness—the elephant (not) in the room
Approximately 96 COVID-19 vaccines are at various stages of clinical development.1 At present, we have the interim results of four studies published in scientific journals (on the Pfizer–BioNTech BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine,2 the Moderna–US National Institutes of Health [NIH] mRNA-1273 vaccine,3 the...www.thelancet.comMyo/Pericarditis
ALL hospitals--worldwide--are lying about their current ICU patients. The numbers reported claiming the majority of C19 patients are unvaccinated is a lie! ...dammit, where's that link again. ugh.
Interesting thoughts I'm having:
My daughter and her fiancé are both vaccinated...both caught the Delta strain and recovered at home with a few minor symptoms. Our PTA President's brother caught C19 Delta (he's 32 and pretty healthy) and died yesterday. Sure, there are stories of the exact opposite, but are they the norm or outliers?
I have my Pfizer shot and still haven't gotten C19, and I live in San Antonio which is always a hot spot.
More liberal circle jerking from RottenHawk and clan! Roll out a "fact check" on efficacy when UK and Israel results show they've been shit already! Don't need studies and horseshit when we just use the whole population to perform the studies! Damn once again that real world data does seem to trump all these studies.
Don't look now, but those treatment shots are really working in the Northeast. Prepare for that awesome winter! Get those 3 weeks booster shots ready!
Similar threads
