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The scam at the heart of the deportation plan . . .

torbee

HB King
Gold Member
Excellent read here.

Social media posts by Trump’s new press secretary reveal the irresolvable paradox—and the massive scam—at the heart of his immigration policies.​


With President Trump’s crackdown on immigration beginning in earnest, it’s now clear that the White House has two major goals to accomplish with its anti-immigrant propaganda. They are in tension with each other. One is to depict Trump fearsomely vanquishing all those dark hordes marauding northward who no longer dare breach our border now that he’s in charge. The other is to portray a nation that—despite Trump’s unassailable strength and power—remains forever under unrelenting invasion, thus legally justifying sweeping new powers to crush the remaining invaders and other assorted enemies within.

You can see this tension playing out in the strange tweets that Karoline Leavitt, the 27-year-old White House press secretary, unleashed as she announced that Trump is now raining down thunder on migrants. “The largest massive deportation operation in history is well underway,” Leavitt gushed, enthusing about the use of “military aircraft” to remove “illegal immigrant criminals.”

The triumphant announcement also came complete with martial imagery. “President Trump is sending a strong and clear message to the entire world,” Leavitt announced in a tweet showing dejected and defeated migrants getting frog-marched onto military planes, declaring: “Deportation flights have begun.” Fox News dutifully blared forth the stunning news. Liberation is at hand!

It is only under Trump, you see, that we have begun deporting migrants on big, powerful-looking planes, and the entire world had better pay attention. Except this is all nonsense. As Aaron Reichlin-Melnick of the American Immigration Counsel pointed out, the United States has been removing migrants on planes for many years, and the Biden administration, to its discredit, also drew attention to such flights. What makes the Trumpian version so galling is the suggestion that this is his innovation, and that carrying it out on military planes is something that only Trump is tough enough to undertake.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Yet this joyous feting of Trump’s power and strength as he begins his mass deportations amounts to something much darker—and a lot more telling too.

For one thing, it’s becoming clear that whatever practical justification there is for ramping up the military presence at the border, all this martial imagery also serves a nefarious, indefensible purpose. Many of the executive orders constituting Trump’s immigration crackdown rely on the premise that we’re under “invasion”; in one case, he is claiming that this unlocks constitutional authorities to fend off the invaders that exist wholly independent of any congressional statute.

The imagery of military planes at the border, then, is not just MAGA bread-and-circuses stuff. By sustaining the impression of this “invasion,” it’s also about manufacturing a pretext for the broader public to justify the assumption of extraordinarily sweeping powers that are very likely illegal.

For another, the overall story that Trump is telling here—that the invader within is so vast and formidable that extraordinary measures are required to uproot and expel it—will not be sustainable in the real world. The supposed failure until now to deport undocumented immigrants with sufficient gusto is not actually the serious national problem that Trump and his spinners claim it is, and they will not be able to disguise this for very long.

Note that during his four years as president, Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first term. Trump and his advisers criticize Biden for deprioritizing the removals of longtime residents, and his border czar has vowed to sweep much more broadly. That was fun and games during the campaign, when no one had to think about what this would actually mean. But barely days after Trump won the election, numerous Republicans—and localities and industries in red states, from construction to food production—suddenly began suffering misgivings, letting it be known that mass removals in their communities would create major economic disruptions.

Here’s an overlooked moment that underscores the point: At a Senate hearing on Thursday, Trump’s nominee for agriculture secretary, Brooke Collins, faced persistent questioning from Democratic Senator Richard Durbin about how deportations would impact the farming and food industries. Durbin pointed out that huge numbers of people who pick our crops are undocumented.

“Can we expect this administration to be raiding farms and going after the immigrant farmworkers?” he asked.

Collins hemmed and hawed, insisting that of course she fully supports Trump’s agenda of mass deportations. But then she pledged to respect the imperative of doing “everything we can to ensure that none of these farms and dairy producers are put out of business.”

In other words, mass deportations do threaten widespread economic damage. The only ways to avoid this, of course, are to not carry out removals of all undocumented immigrants, or to do it in such a way that favored industries are not targeted by them. Which constitutes an admission that ejecting undocumented immigrants entirely is a terrible idea and that many play critical roles in our economy and society.
 
If that is so, why not stick to targeting serious criminals for removal, while creating more paths to legalization for the noncriminal migrant workers we need? Because the story Trump is telling must not ever be tampered with or disturbed—the undocumented population can be understood only as an invading enemy within, which must be expelled at all costs.

Political theorist Thomas Zimmer recently observed that the propaganda of authoritarian leaders sometimes suffers from a deep contradiction. On the one hand, the justification for carrying out expulsions and purgings of undesirable populations—for assuming extraordinary authorities or undertaking potentially illegal actions against them—must rest on depicting them as a massive internal threat. On the other, the leader must perpetually be depicted as powerful and strong, which requires demonstrating that he is mercilessly and successfully crushing that threat. Yet that in turn requires forever finding new ways to replenish the sense of emergency the original threat was supposed to create.

The Potemkin nature of all this is neatly captured by Leavitt’s absurdities about mass deportations. All that military imagery exaggerates the scale and nature of that enemy while also sustaining the impression that only Trump has the strength to conquer it.

Yet this ruse cannot be sustained indefinitely: What happens when the deportations actually do start targeting those migrants who—by the admission of Trump’s own incoming agriculture secretary—are necessary to keep the food coming to our tables? How will Trump and his propagandists keep manufacturing the rationale for a military-style response at that point? And if we’re still under “invasion,” won’t Trump have failed to achieve the glorious pacification he promised us?

The buffoonish quality of all these follies already makes it plain: No amount of determined propaganda from the likes of Leavitt will be able to paper over these glaring contradictions forever.
 
Note that during his four years as president, Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first term. Trump and his advisers criticize Biden for deprioritizing the removals of longtime residents, and his border czar has vowed to sweep much more broadly. That was fun and games during the campaign, when no one had to think about what this would actually mean. But barely days after Trump won the election, numerous Republicans—and localities and industries in red states, from construction to food production—suddenly began suffering misgivings, letting it be known that mass removals in their communities would create major economic disruptions.
 
Admittedly, I have not dug into the details on this but I’m confused about the “process” involved here.

Deporting illegal immigrants that are also violent criminals. Seems mostly easy to do by removing them from the federal and state prison systems though I’m sure some have been released and will need to be tracked down. I’m fine with this and a little surprised we haven’t been doing this anyway (maybe we have?).

Deporting illegal immigrants that have been convicted of non-violent crimes and not currently housed in the prison system. One, tracking them down will be much harder though there should at least be some records on their whereabouts (assuming they are not violating parole conditions as well). Two, I don’t feel very strongly about the need for doing this at all, especially if they are otherwise contributing to our society (ie. Working). I’m also leery of how many of these folks have been wrongly convicted of a crime in the first place.

Deporting other illegal immigrants. This seems misguided and wrong-headed. For one, it will lead to tons of workplace disruption and threaten our economy. Two, the shear cost involved with this seems to outweigh any benefits one thinks may be achieved. Three, the sheer mean-spiritedness of this action will further tear the cultural fabric of our nation.

Finally, if you’re going to respond that all illegal immigrants are “criminals” by virtue of being here, just STFU; that’s a non-starter as to the point of this discussion.
 
Note that during his four years as president, Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first term. Trump and his advisers criticize Biden for deprioritizing the removals of longtime residents, and his border czar has vowed to sweep much more broadly. That was fun and games during the campaign, when no one had to think about what this would actually mean. But barely days after Trump won the election, numerous Republicans—and localities and industries in red states, from construction to food production—suddenly began suffering misgivings, letting it be known that mass removals in their communities would create major economic disruptions.
When there are more to deport under your term, OF COURSE you can deport more
 
If that is so, why not stick to targeting serious criminals for removal, while creating more paths to legalization for the noncriminal migrant workers we need? Because the story Trump is telling must not ever be tampered with or disturbed—the undocumented population can be understood only as an invading enemy within, which must be expelled at all costs.

Political theorist Thomas Zimmer recently observed that the propaganda of authoritarian leaders sometimes suffers from a deep contradiction. On the one hand, the justification for carrying out expulsions and purgings of undesirable populations—for assuming extraordinary authorities or undertaking potentially illegal actions against them—must rest on depicting them as a massive internal threat. On the other, the leader must perpetually be depicted as powerful and strong, which requires demonstrating that he is mercilessly and successfully crushing that threat. Yet that in turn requires forever finding new ways to replenish the sense of emergency the original threat was supposed to create.

The Potemkin nature of all this is neatly captured by Leavitt’s absurdities about mass deportations. All that military imagery exaggerates the scale and nature of that enemy while also sustaining the impression that only Trump has the strength to conquer it.

Yet this ruse cannot be sustained indefinitely: What happens when the deportations actually do start targeting those migrants who—by the admission of Trump’s own incoming agriculture secretary—are necessary to keep the food coming to our tables? How will Trump and his propagandists keep manufacturing the rationale for a military-style response at that point? And if we’re still under “invasion,” won’t Trump have failed to achieve the glorious pacification he promised us?

The buffoonish quality of all these follies already makes it plain: No amount of determined propaganda from the likes of Leavitt will be able to paper over these glaring contradictions forever.
Source? Link?
 
Admittedly, I have not dug into the details on this but I’m confused about the “process” involved here.

Deporting illegal immigrants that are also violent criminals. Seems mostly easy to do by removing them from the federal and state prison systems though I’m sure some have been released and will need to be tracked down. I’m fine with this and a little surprised we haven’t been doing this anyway (maybe we have?).

Deporting illegal immigrants that have been convicted of non-violent crimes and not currently housed in the prison system. One, tracking them down will be much harder though there should at least be some records on their whereabouts (assuming they are not violating parole conditions as well). Two, I don’t feel very strongly about the need for doing this at all, especially if they are otherwise contributing to our society (ie. Working). I’m also leery of how many of these folks have been wrongly convicted of a crime in the first place.

Deporting other illegal immigrants. This seems misguided and wrong-headed. For one, it will lead to tons of workplace disruption and threaten our economy. Two, the shear cost involved with this seems to outweigh any benefits one thinks may be achieved. Three, the sheer mean-spiritedness of this action will further tear the cultural fabric of our nation.

Finally, if you’re going to respond that all illegal immigrants are “criminals” by virtue of being here, just STFU; that’s a non-starter as to the point of this discussion.

You forgot adjudicated asylum applicants subject to deportation...
 
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I think the funniest shit ever was the Mexican president trying to say the illegal Mexicans in our country are what make our economy go...... but she had no desire to bring them home.....

None of these countries want them back. Prior to Trump they had the greatest thing going. Get rid of your criminals and get rid of your poor people by sending them north.
 
Deporting undocumented immigrants with criminal records
who have broken the law by stealing, murder, raping, etc. is
necessary.

Deporting undocumented refugees who are working to support
their families and are not criminals is not necessary.

Bottom Line: Donald Trump is grandstanding on this issue as he
tries to lump all these undocumented immigrants together.
He should be ashamed of himself for his dishonesty.
 
Deporting undocumented immigrants with criminal records
who have broken the law by stealing, murder, raping, etc. is
necessary.

Deporting undocumented refugees who are working to support
their families and are not criminals is not necessary.

Bottom Line: Donald Trump is grandstanding on this issue as he
tries to lump all these undocumented immigrants together.
He should be ashamed of himself for his dishonesty.

How many "undocumented immigrants" are you willing to let in Lute?

And then when it exceeds the number you set, what would you do?
 
I do think that what is going on with Trump's orders here is kind of chaotic, and some of them are wrongheaded.

I think some of this piece is directionally correct, but misses on a couple points.

The biggest one is totally missing the point about the whole "show of force" PR scheme. There is absolutely a reason to blow everything out of proportion, and make these ostentatious and militaristic displays...and that is to send a message to the potential migrants that the border is no longer a swinging gate. It's been very clear that the flow of migrants absolutely runs on vibes, and no matter how many Biden actually deported, his signaling that the border was now soft and open drastically increased the amount of people showing up and streaming across the border and claiming asylum. The message was clearly sent, it's why the numbers increased exponentially, and all you had to do was talk to the migrants and they would tell you that Biden signaled it was easy.

The Trump show is sending the opposite message obviously, and it's the single easiest, safest, and most humane way to dramatically reduce those showing up at the border. Simply put, less people will show up at the border trying to get in illegally. Unless you think that is a problem, that we WANT these numbers of people entering our country in this fashion, the Trump deportation show can be both dishonest AND serve a purpose.

By the way...the Biden/Democratic border policy change from the Obama and Hillary positions is insane...both on its face, and as political malpractice.

The messages below are so in line with most Americans on immigration, it's unbelievable that Trump saying some nasty stuff about shithole countries and illegal immigrant racist caused the Democrats to abandon them completely for essentially an open borders, abolish ice, no deportation position. Trump basically destroyed both the Democrat and Republican parties.

 
I do think that what is going on with Trump's orders here is kind of chaotic, and some of them are wrongheaded.

I think some of this piece is directionally correct, but misses on a couple points.

The biggest one is totally missing the point about the whole "show of force" PR scheme. There is absolutely a reason to blow everything out of proportion, and make these ostentatious and militaristic displays...and that is to send a message to the potential migrants that the border is no longer a swinging gate. It's been very clear that the flow of migrants absolutely runs on vibes, and no matter how many Biden actually deported, his signaling that the border was now soft and open drastically increased the amount of people showing up and streaming across the border and claiming asylum. The message was clearly sent, it's why the numbers increased exponentially, and all you had to do was talk to the migrants and they would tell you that Biden signaled it was easy.

The Trump show is sending the opposite message obviously, and it's the single easiest, safest, and most humane way to dramatically reduce those showing up at the border. Simply put, less people will show up at the border trying to get in illegally. Unless you think that is a problem, that we WANT these numbers of people entering our country in this fashion, the Trump deportation show can be both dishonest AND serve a purpose.

By the way...the Biden/Democratic border policy change from the Obama and Hillary positions is insane...both on its face, and as political malpractice.

The messages below are so in line with most Americans on immigration, it's unbelievable that Trump saying some nasty stuff about shithole countries and illegal immigrant racist caused the Democrats to abandon them completely for essentially an open borders, abolish ice, no deportation position. Trump basically destroyed both the Democrat and Republican parties.


This kind of approach has been stonewalled by republicans for generations.
 
I think what needs to happen at this point is we need some high ranking, vocal, respected, democrats to go try in work in another country illegally and report back on how they were recieved.
 
This kind of approach has been stonewalled by republicans for generations.

100% it has. No question about it. This used to be the liberal position lol. And it was the mainstream position, and in my opinion, roughly the correct practical and moral answer. One of the handful of things that I'm more in line with Obama/Clinton on than Republicans. It was absolutely elements of the Republican party that stood in the way of this.

But...what was gained by the Democrats from abandoning this? Trump's immigration policies in his first term, contrasted to this Democratic position, largely were a negative to him. His border policies in his first administration actually hurt his approval.

But the Democrats switch from Obama's position on immigration (which was a winning strategy), to whatever absolute cluster that was Biden/progressive policy at the border, resulting in massive influx of migrants and illegals and a total breakdown of systems, defiance of enforcement, demonization of border agents...now a more aggressive Trump approach to immigration has the public's support. Just as that tweet says, the Biden/progressive border approach absolutely radicalized people against immigration.

So what was gained by the shift? Who was for it? How many votes did it win them for Democrats to lie about border agents whipping migrants?

It's kind of inexplicable to me that could happen. But maybe it shouldn't be, Republicans abandoned plenty of reasonable popular core beliefs as well, after losing a couple elections. I guess losing encourages radical responses whether they make sense or not.
 
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Excellent read here.

Social media posts by Trump’s new press secretary reveal the irresolvable paradox—and the massive scam—at the heart of his immigration policies.​


With President Trump’s crackdown on immigration beginning in earnest, it’s now clear that the White House has two major goals to accomplish with its anti-immigrant propaganda. They are in tension with each other. One is to depict Trump fearsomely vanquishing all those dark hordes marauding northward who no longer dare breach our border now that he’s in charge. The other is to portray a nation that—despite Trump’s unassailable strength and power—remains forever under unrelenting invasion, thus legally justifying sweeping new powers to crush the remaining invaders and other assorted enemies within.

You can see this tension playing out in the strange tweets that Karoline Leavitt, the 27-year-old White House press secretary, unleashed as she announced that Trump is now raining down thunder on migrants. “The largest massive deportation operation in history is well underway,” Leavitt gushed, enthusing about the use of “military aircraft” to remove “illegal immigrant criminals.”

The triumphant announcement also came complete with martial imagery. “President Trump is sending a strong and clear message to the entire world,” Leavitt announced in a tweet showing dejected and defeated migrants getting frog-marched onto military planes, declaring: “Deportation flights have begun.” Fox News dutifully blared forth the stunning news. Liberation is at hand!

It is only under Trump, you see, that we have begun deporting migrants on big, powerful-looking planes, and the entire world had better pay attention. Except this is all nonsense. As Aaron Reichlin-Melnick of the American Immigration Counsel pointed out, the United States has been removing migrants on planes for many years, and the Biden administration, to its discredit, also drew attention to such flights. What makes the Trumpian version so galling is the suggestion that this is his innovation, and that carrying it out on military planes is something that only Trump is tough enough to undertake.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Yet this joyous feting of Trump’s power and strength as he begins his mass deportations amounts to something much darker—and a lot more telling too.

For one thing, it’s becoming clear that whatever practical justification there is for ramping up the military presence at the border, all this martial imagery also serves a nefarious, indefensible purpose. Many of the executive orders constituting Trump’s immigration crackdown rely on the premise that we’re under “invasion”; in one case, he is claiming that this unlocks constitutional authorities to fend off the invaders that exist wholly independent of any congressional statute.

The imagery of military planes at the border, then, is not just MAGA bread-and-circuses stuff. By sustaining the impression of this “invasion,” it’s also about manufacturing a pretext for the broader public to justify the assumption of extraordinarily sweeping powers that are very likely illegal.

For another, the overall story that Trump is telling here—that the invader within is so vast and formidable that extraordinary measures are required to uproot and expel it—will not be sustainable in the real world. The supposed failure until now to deport undocumented immigrants with sufficient gusto is not actually the serious national problem that Trump and his spinners claim it is, and they will not be able to disguise this for very long.

Note that during his four years as president, Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first term. Trump and his advisers criticize Biden for deprioritizing the removals of longtime residents, and his border czar has vowed to sweep much more broadly. That was fun and games during the campaign, when no one had to think about what this would actually mean. But barely days after Trump won the election, numerous Republicans—and localities and industries in red states, from construction to food production—suddenly began suffering misgivings, letting it be known that mass removals in their communities would create major economic disruptions.

Here’s an overlooked moment that underscores the point: At a Senate hearing on Thursday, Trump’s nominee for agriculture secretary, Brooke Collins, faced persistent questioning from Democratic Senator Richard Durbin about how deportations would impact the farming and food industries. Durbin pointed out that huge numbers of people who pick our crops are undocumented.

“Can we expect this administration to be raiding farms and going after the immigrant farmworkers?” he asked.

Collins hemmed and hawed, insisting that of course she fully supports Trump’s agenda of mass deportations. But then she pledged to respect the imperative of doing “everything we can to ensure that none of these farms and dairy producers are put out of business.”

In other words, mass deportations do threaten widespread economic damage. The only ways to avoid this, of course, are to not carry out removals of all undocumented immigrants, or to do it in such a way that favored industries are not targeted by them. Which constitutes an admission that ejecting undocumented immigrants entirely is a terrible idea and that many play critical roles in our economy and society.
1. Leavitt, as I recall, was the gal who would follow Trump around on the golf course reading off favorable press releases to make Trump feel good about himself.
2. Authoritarian movements need internal and external enemies. Trump is providing Fox 24 hour coverage in order for the dullards like Northern to cede their rights.
 
100% it has. No question about it. This used to be the liberal position lol. And it was the mainstream position, and in my opinion, roughly the correct practical and moral answer. One of the handful of things that I'm more in line with Obama/Clinton on than Republicans. It was absolutely elements of the Republican party that stood in the way of this.

But...what was gained by the Democrats from abandoning this? Trump's immigration policies in his first term, contrasted to this Democratic position, largely were a negative to him. His border policies in his first administration actually hurt his approval.

But the Democrats switch from Obama's position on immigration (which was a winning strategy), to whatever absolute cluster that was Biden/progressive policy at the border, resulting in massive influx of migrants and illegals and a total breakdown of systems, defiance of enforcement, demonization of border agents...now a more aggressive Trump approach to immigration has the public's support. Just as that tweet says, the Biden/progressive border approach absolutely radicalized people against immigration.

So what was gained by the shift? Who was for it? How many votes did it win them for Democrats to lie about border agents whipping migrants?

It's kind of inexplicable to me that could happen. But maybe it shouldn't be, Republicans abandoned plenty of reasonable popular core beliefs as well, after losing a couple elections. I guess losing encourages radical responses whether they make sense or not.
Wow, Biden sounds terrible. We must have tons more illegals in the country now than in the past....

Figure-1-Bob-Report.png


Oh....
 
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Excellent read here.

Social media posts by Trump’s new press secretary reveal the irresolvable paradox—and the massive scam—at the heart of his immigration policies.​


With President Trump’s crackdown on immigration beginning in earnest, it’s now clear that the White House has two major goals to accomplish with its anti-immigrant propaganda. They are in tension with each other. One is to depict Trump fearsomely vanquishing all those dark hordes marauding northward who no longer dare breach our border now that he’s in charge. The other is to portray a nation that—despite Trump’s unassailable strength and power—remains forever under unrelenting invasion, thus legally justifying sweeping new powers to crush the remaining invaders and other assorted enemies within.

You can see this tension playing out in the strange tweets that Karoline Leavitt, the 27-year-old White House press secretary, unleashed as she announced that Trump is now raining down thunder on migrants. “The largest massive deportation operation in history is well underway,” Leavitt gushed, enthusing about the use of “military aircraft” to remove “illegal immigrant criminals.”

The triumphant announcement also came complete with martial imagery. “President Trump is sending a strong and clear message to the entire world,” Leavitt announced in a tweet showing dejected and defeated migrants getting frog-marched onto military planes, declaring: “Deportation flights have begun.” Fox News dutifully blared forth the stunning news. Liberation is at hand!

It is only under Trump, you see, that we have begun deporting migrants on big, powerful-looking planes, and the entire world had better pay attention. Except this is all nonsense. As Aaron Reichlin-Melnick of the American Immigration Counsel pointed out, the United States has been removing migrants on planes for many years, and the Biden administration, to its discredit, also drew attention to such flights. What makes the Trumpian version so galling is the suggestion that this is his innovation, and that carrying it out on military planes is something that only Trump is tough enough to undertake.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Leavitt is well known for offering comically obsequious praise for Trump, as well as for delivering the most towering of absurdities with unflappable smugness. She recently trumpeted a coming “big infrastructure announcement” from Trump, claiming he’s already “done more in less than 24 hours than his predecessor did in four years,” thus erasing Biden’s painstakingly negotiated, bipartisan, trillion-dollar infrastructure law without flinching in the slightest.

Yet this joyous feting of Trump’s power and strength as he begins his mass deportations amounts to something much darker—and a lot more telling too.

For one thing, it’s becoming clear that whatever practical justification there is for ramping up the military presence at the border, all this martial imagery also serves a nefarious, indefensible purpose. Many of the executive orders constituting Trump’s immigration crackdown rely on the premise that we’re under “invasion”; in one case, he is claiming that this unlocks constitutional authorities to fend off the invaders that exist wholly independent of any congressional statute.

The imagery of military planes at the border, then, is not just MAGA bread-and-circuses stuff. By sustaining the impression of this “invasion,” it’s also about manufacturing a pretext for the broader public to justify the assumption of extraordinarily sweeping powers that are very likely illegal.

For another, the overall story that Trump is telling here—that the invader within is so vast and formidable that extraordinary measures are required to uproot and expel it—will not be sustainable in the real world. The supposed failure until now to deport undocumented immigrants with sufficient gusto is not actually the serious national problem that Trump and his spinners claim it is, and they will not be able to disguise this for very long.

Note that during his four years as president, Biden deported more people than Trump did during his first term. Trump and his advisers criticize Biden for deprioritizing the removals of longtime residents, and his border czar has vowed to sweep much more broadly. That was fun and games during the campaign, when no one had to think about what this would actually mean. But barely days after Trump won the election, numerous Republicans—and localities and industries in red states, from construction to food production—suddenly began suffering misgivings, letting it be known that mass removals in their communities would create major economic disruptions.

Here’s an overlooked moment that underscores the point: At a Senate hearing on Thursday, Trump’s nominee for agriculture secretary, Brooke Collins, faced persistent questioning from Democratic Senator Richard Durbin about how deportations would impact the farming and food industries. Durbin pointed out that huge numbers of people who pick our crops are undocumented.

“Can we expect this administration to be raiding farms and going after the immigrant farmworkers?” he asked.

Collins hemmed and hawed, insisting that of course she fully supports Trump’s agenda of mass deportations. But then she pledged to respect the imperative of doing “everything we can to ensure that none of these farms and dairy producers are put out of business.”

In other words, mass deportations do threaten widespread economic damage. The only ways to avoid this, of course, are to not carry out removals of all undocumented immigrants, or to do it in such a way that favored industries are not targeted by them. Which constitutes an admission that ejecting undocumented immigrants entirely is a terrible idea and that many play critical roles in our economy and society.

What. The. ****.

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
 
100% it has. No question about it. This used to be the liberal position lol. And it was the mainstream position, and in my opinion, roughly the correct practical and moral answer. One of the handful of things that I'm more in line with Obama/Clinton on than Republicans. It was absolutely elements of the Republican party that stood in the way of this.

But...what was gained by the Democrats from abandoning this? Trump's immigration policies in his first term, contrasted to this Democratic position, largely were a negative to him. His border policies in his first administration actually hurt his approval.

But the Democrats switch from Obama's position on immigration (which was a winning strategy), to whatever absolute cluster that was Biden/progressive policy at the border, resulting in massive influx of migrants and illegals and a total breakdown of systems, defiance of enforcement, demonization of border agents...now a more aggressive Trump approach to immigration has the public's support. Just as that tweet says, the Biden/progressive border approach absolutely radicalized people against immigration.

So what was gained by the shift? Who was for it? How many votes did it win them for Democrats to lie about border agents whipping migrants?

It's kind of inexplicable to me that could happen. But maybe it shouldn't be, Republicans abandoned plenty of reasonable popular core beliefs as well, after losing a couple elections. I guess losing encourages radical responses whether they make sense or not.
But the Democrats switch from Obama's position on immigration (which was a winning strategy), to whatever absolute cluster that was Biden/progressive policy at the border, resulting in massive influx of migrants and illegals and a total breakdown of systems, defiance of enforcement, demonization of border agents.

Almost all of this is bullshit propaganda pushed by the Trump campaign. Lest you forget, Biden HAD hammered out an immigration bill that HAD GOP support - until Trump decided it was "bad politics."
 
But the Democrats switch from Obama's position on immigration (which was a winning strategy), to whatever absolute cluster that was Biden/progressive policy at the border, resulting in massive influx of migrants and illegals and a total breakdown of systems, defiance of enforcement, demonization of border agents.

Almost all of this is bullshit propaganda pushed by the Trump campaign. Lest you forget, Biden HAD hammered out an immigration bill that HAD GOP support - until Trump decided it was "bad politics."

Oh, the Republicans have been preventing immigration deals forever. They should absolutely catch crap for that.

But seriously, if you really don't see any difference in the border and illegal immigration situation between Obama and Trump 1, and Biden, I literally don't know what to tell you. If you really don't think there was any increase in migrants, illegals, more chaos around immigration etc...like I just don't know what to say.


I don't know how you look at the border under Biden, and pretend that nothing changed, that it's all just a Republican lie.

I don't see how someone looks at this and doesn't say it was a clear signal to migrants that they were welcome.


I mean, you can keep saying the border was no problem under Biden, but nobody is buying it.
 
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