This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
The burn the boats theory was also my thinking.
"04/11 (17) The destruction of the boats raises the question: why sacrifice the numerous forces that are still in the bridgehead? Prevent desertion? Boost morale by burning ships (like Agathocles or Barbarossa and not Cortes"
"04/11 (18) No one yet knows what effect these measures taken yesterday will have on the morale of the defenders of the Kherson bridgehead. Especially against an aggressive and determined UKR army. And who has (for now) the initiative & the means to attack where she wants."
"04/11 (17) The destruction of the boats raises the question: why sacrifice the numerous forces that are still in the bridgehead? Prevent desertion? Boost morale by burning ships (like Agathocles or Barbarossa and not Cortes"
"04/11 (18) No one yet knows what effect these measures taken yesterday will have on the morale of the defenders of the Kherson bridgehead. Especially against an aggressive and determined UKR army. And who has (for now) the initiative & the means to attack where she wants."
"04/11 (9) The UKR forces only communicated on 2 confirmed local successes (Mala Seidemynukha & Novohrednjeve) but nothing significant for a hypothetical evacuation: the RUS are for the moment still in force in the bridgehead .
"The UKR forces have also continued to strike the banks of the Dnipro to hinder the passage, continuing the strategy initiated since mid-July."
"The UKR forces have also continued to strike the banks of the Dnipro to hinder the passage, continuing the strategy initiated since mid-July."
If accurate, it looks like Russia may be sticking it neck out too far.
"04/11 (3) the special case of Kreminna where UKRs and RUSs are active. But the initiative remains for the moment with the UKR."
"04/11 (3) the special case of Kreminna where UKRs and RUSs are active. But the initiative remains for the moment with the UKR."
"04/11 (2) First the northeast: let's not forget that since September 6, the Ukrainians have not one but TWO sectors of effort that they alternate to keep the initiative and disorient the RUS."
My neighbor used have a nice lawn mower and grill. Wouldn't I be a great guy if I gave them to someone else for free?
So without translating all of the twitter posts, is it that the Russians destroyed a means to retreat in the Kherson area, with the hope everyone fights to the death?
If "it's long past time to seek a peaceful resolution in Ukraine", maybe Gosar should tell his Russian benefactors to GTFO. And it isn't Ukrainian soldiers being used as cannon fodder. They get training, food, clothing, and weaponry that doesn't date to WW2. It's Russia who is sending ill-equipped, poorly feed, green troops to the front in a war of aggression with more guns pointed at their backs. I seriously can't tell with these fascist/MAGA f***s whether they are too stupid to be aware of their own projection or if it's more of the Goebbels-style big lie strategy. I think it tends to be the latter in the leaders and the former in the followers.
Is he joking?
Talks that don’t end with Russia’s withdrawal, Putin on trial for crimes against humanity & facing execution, and future Russian energy sales being siphoned off to pay a few decades worth of reparations to Ukraine, are pointless. Those are the terms of Russian surrender.
In what scenario will Putin/Russia agree to this @hwk23 ? Are you in touch with the Kremlin?
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Well said. People like hwk23 fall for Kremlin communications. So strange.
Moscow defense state of affairs. Paul Gosar might be impressed but I ain’t.
When someone quotes Gosar to make their point, they've lost me. It's really that bad.
Honestly, I'd give more credence to a Boebert quote. Gosar is on par with MTG. Putin might even be a better person than either of them.
When someone quotes Gosar to make their point, they've lost me. It's really that bad.
Honestly, I'd give more credence to a Boebert quote. Gosar is on par with MTG. Putin might even be a better person than either of them.
Gosar is a 2020 election denier, Jan 6 cheerleader, and never met a racist / white nationalist he didn’t like. Sickening disgusting sorry ass excuse for a human being.
It almost has to be that or a fear that Ukraine would be desperate enough to use the boats to cross themselves.
From some of the videos it appears Ukraine has boats that can carry infantry and I suspect the West will make more available if need be
If you're looking for something to read on the rationale, you can scan over this letter from 30 Russia loving fascists. Might give you an insight to how these scumbags think.
Dear Mr. President:
We write with appreciation for your commitment to Ukraine’s legitimate struggle against Russia’s war of aggression. Your support for the self-defense of an independent, sovereign, and democratic state has been supported by Congress, including through various appropriations of military, economic and humanitarian aid in furtherance of this cause. Your administration’s policy was critical to enable the Ukrainian people, through their courageous fighting and heroic sacrifices, to deal a historic military defeat to Russia, forcing Russia to dramatically scale back the stated goals of the invasion.
Crucially, you achieved this while also maintaining that it is imperative to avoid direct military conflict with Russia, which would lead to “World War III, something we must strive to prevent.” The risk of nuclear weapons being used has been estimated to be higher now than at any time since the height of the Cold War. Given the catastrophic possibilities of nuclear escalation and miscalculation, which only increase the longer this war continues, we agree with your goal of avoiding direct military conflict as an overriding national-security priority.
Given the destruction created by this war for Ukraine and the world, as well as the risk of catastrophic escalation, we also believe it is in the interests of Ukraine, the United States, and the world to avoid a prolonged conflict. For this reason, we urge you to pair the military and economic support the United States has provided to Ukraine with a proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire. This is consistent with your recognition that “there’s going to have to be a negotiated settlement here,” and your concern that Vladimir Putin “doesn't have a way out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what we do about that.”
We are under no illusions regarding the difficulties involved in engaging Russia given its outrageous and illegal invasion of Ukraine and its decision to make additional illegal annexations of Ukrainian territory. However, if there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine. Such a framework would presumably include incentives to end hostilities, including some form of sanctions relief, and bring together the international community to establish security guarantees for a free and independent Ukraine that are acceptable for all parties, particularly Ukrainians. The alternative to diplomacy is protracted war, with both its attendant certainties and catastrophic and unknowable risks.
Russia’s invasion has caused incalculable harm for the people of Ukraine, leading to the deaths of countless thousands of civilians, Ukrainian soldiers, and displacement of 13 million people, while Russia’s recent seizure of cities in Ukraine’s east have led to the most pivotal moment in the conflict and the consolidation of Russian control over roughly 20 percent of Ukraine’s territory. The conflict threatens an additional tens of millions more worldwide, as skyrocketing prices in wheat, fertilizer and fuel spark acute crises in global hunger and poverty. A war that is allowed to grind on for years—potentially escalating in intensity and geographic scope— threatens to displace, kill, and immiserate far more Ukrainians while causing hunger, poverty, and death around the world. The conflict has also contributed to elevated gas and food prices at home, fueling inflation and high oil prices for Americans in recent months. Economists believe that if the situation in Ukraine is stabilized, some of the speculative concerns driving higher fuel costs will subside and likely lead to a drop in world oil prices.
We agree with the Administration’s perspective that it is not America’s place to pressure Ukraine’s government regarding sovereign decisions, and with the principle you have enunciated that there should be “nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.” But as legislators responsible for the expenditure of tens of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars in military assistance in the conflict, we believe such involvement in this war also creates a responsibility for the United States to seriously explore all possible avenues, including direct engagement with Russia, to reduce harm and support Ukraine in achieving a peaceful settlement.
In May, President Zelensky, despite deadlocked negotiations, reiterated that the war “will only definitively end through diplomacy,” and had previously explained that “any mentally healthy person always chooses the diplomatic path, because he or she knows: even if it is difficult, it can prevent the loss of thousands, tens of thousands...and maybe even millions of lives.”
In conclusion, we urge you to make vigorous diplomatic efforts in support of a negotiated settlement and ceasefire, engage in direct talks with Russia, explore prospects for a new European security arrangement acceptable to all parties that will allow for a sovereign and independent Ukraine, and, in coordination with our Ukrainian partners, seek a rapid end to the conflict and reiterate this goal as America’s chief priority.
https://progressives.house.gov/_cac...-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf
Hope that helps.
MTG has the current House Minority Leader parroting her BS.
Weird that you didn't highlight THIS part, which is consistent with what is in the letter.
What exactly is "fascist" about that letter? It certainly isnt the parts you increased font size of.
Weird? What's weird is the shit @seminole97 took for suggesting this war would end diplomatically at that same time.
Another thing that's weird is Zelensky isn't saying that right now, while he's taking back his country you moron. He said it back in May. It's like these scumbags were waiting until Ukraine was pushing Russia back to call for negotiations with their dumbass letter.
Because Putin isn't negotiating on anything. Nor willing to remove his troops from Ukrainian soil.
It's almost a talent how you take out 1 part of a comment which isn't even being argued so you don't have to address any of the other points.
Almost. Mostly it just shows how little you can debate a topic.
A part that is factually inaccurate, that you're hiding around a bunch of your other BS.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 99,640
- 209,796
- 113
American Who Snuck Out of Dad’s House to Fight Putin Is Dead
Skyler Greggs, 23, was interviewed by The Daily Beast from a hospital bed in Ukraine back in June.
www.thedailybeast.com
LOL. Russian defense capabilities looks like it came out of an episode of “Life After People”
No, it's showing how stupid most of the posters in this thread are when playing their "sides" bullshit. One group calls for de-escalation and ceasefire talks - pro-putin fascists. Other side calls for the same thing - not a peep.
It's comical.
It's not what the "other side" is calling for.
That side is regurgitating Russian propaganda, which makes a BIG difference anytime you're talking about "diplomatic solutions".
Sure.
Point out, specifically, where it parrots any Putin propaganda.
THEN, go to the statements from folks like Gosar and MTG and identify where THEY parrot Russian propaganda. Because Putin puts THEIR statements on his own media platforms.
That is not true for what "progressives" are saying.
I honestly had never heard of Gosar until Joe responded to that video. It explains why the Russians were talking about him. That’s why I posted it. Jeffrey Sachs and Noam Chomsky could have said the same from the left.
When someone quotes Gosar to make their point, they've lost me. It's really that bad.
Honestly, I'd give more credence to a Boebert quote. Gosar is on par with MTG. Putin might even be a better person than either of them.
Anyone suggesting that the Ukrainians should negotiate now has a screw loose.
The Orcs are animals and should be treated as such. They need to be driven out of Ukraine before any talks begin.
Maybe we should ask the people of Bucha what they think.
How Russian soldiers ran a 'cleansing' operation in Bucha
The first man arrived at 7:27 a.m. Russian soldiers covered his head and marched him up the driveway toward a nondescript office building. It was a cold, gray morning, March 4 in Bucha, Ukraine. What happened that day in Bucha was what Russian soldiers on intercepted phone conversations called...
Aren't you guys talking about Mark-Paul Gosar? You're telling me you've never heard of this guy?
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