This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

[torbee]

At times, Western states have put stock in and sometimes feared the “Russian steamroller.” But Russia usually has had difficulty in mobilizing its forces effectively. It has been best in defensive war, defeating Charles XII of Sweden, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Adolf Hitler with the help of General Winter. Yet it has failed at other times, and its failures have often unleashed domestic crises: the Crimean War led to the end of serfdom; the 1904-5 war against Japan was the dress rehearsal of revolution; World War I brought about the collapse of the Tsarist regime. In all three cases, Russia was ill-prepared, had a backward and sometimes corrupt military, and an authoritarian but incompetent political leadership. It turned out to be much weaker than it seemed. As a result of war, its territorial boundaries shifted. For example, after World War I, Poland was recreated largely out of Russian territory, as were the Baltic states. After the end of communism, the soviet republics became independent.

 

[Tenacious E]

Ok now look up Abu Ghraib. The US army is not as clean as you would like to think.

Not a proud moment that is for sure. But you must have skimmed over the part where Bush apologized for it, Rumsfeld took responsibility for it, and eleven soldiers were convicted and others demoted. Not making excuses but one wartime prison in which captured soldiers were tortured is not tantamount to intentionally blowing the shit out of innocent civilians and/or their homes by the hour, if not minute, starving them out, taking civilians as hostages and using them to test enemy positions, taking civilians as hostages and sending them off to camps, and on and on and on.

 

[h-hawk]

Sounds like Ukraine requested 500 tanks today. Do we think the most likely sources would be countries like Poland that have the Soviet equipment Ukraine is used to?

"At present, Polish Army has a stock of 1009 tanks (2017). There are a total of 249 Leopard 2 tanks (117 Leopard 2A4, 105 Leopard 2A5, 25 Leopard 2PL, 2 Leopard 2NJ), 232 PT-91 tanks that underwent modernization in 2016, and 328 T-72 tanks. 230 of the T-72 are being upgraded by the Bumar-Labedy arms manufacturing plant."

 

[RileyHawk]

Killing 400,000 civilians with nuclear weapons is not? My bad. JFC.

No, it's not. You're a full on kook.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Their geopolitical strategic aim of the last 80 years has been a buffer between them and the source of invasions for the last 220 years.

LOL...so they invaded Poland in '39 to prevent Germany from invading them?

Oh...wait...they signed an agreement with Germany prior to the invasion to split Poland in half.

They invaded Poland again after the war - twice - because the Poles were getting a bit too uppity in defiance of Soviet rule.

They invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania to establish your "buffer".

They invaded Hungary in '56 to stomp out democratic reform.

They invaded Czechoslovakia in '68 for the same reason.

Seems they do an awful lot of invading to prevent an invasion.

Exactly who has invaded them in the past 220 years to make them so paranoid? More importantly, who has invaded Russia who hasn't also invaded other countries? Do all those other countries get to invade others indiscriminately to establish "buffers"? Maybe NATO should invade Russia to protect Europe from the Mongols.

 

[GOHOX69]

The country not at war has clean hands.

Precisely. The Ukrainians didn't invite an invasion by Russia. And if Russia wants to keep blabbing about the Minsk agreements, then I'd counter propose that Ukraine deliberately denuclearized itself in the early 1990's as a _guarantee_ and _prerequisite_ that nuclear Russia wouldn't f'ing invade it. Ukraine has no delivery systems to lob missiles into major Russian metro areas (either conventional or nuclear). Imagine how different things would be if that were the case. Russia is doing this based on that stupid and ill advised bargain. If I were a medium sized country, I would nuclearize myself NOW. The only reason Pakistan exists, is because of nukes and the only reason India exists, from Chinese hegemony, is nukes and delivery systems. Others should learn from that lesson.

 

[CO_hawk]

Not a proud moment that is for sure. But you must have skimmed over the part where Bush apologized for it, Rumsfeld took responsibility for it, and eleven soldiers were convicted/demoted. Not making excuses but one wartime prison in which captured soldiers were tortured is not tantamount to intentionally blowing the shit out of innocent civilians and/or their homes by the hour, if not minute, starving them out, taking them hostage and using them to test enemy positions, taking hostages and sending them off to camps, and on and on and on.

Abu Ghraib

America is not evil, but there are many consequences for our actions. We could start diving into South America and what has happened there.
Or we could drop it and cheer on Russian teens being sent to there death unwillingly.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

If the GOP Congress forbade instruction in Spanish by any school in the country, would it be perceived as patriotic, or racist?

You really think people wouldn’t assert that such a law was tantamount to ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide?

I do, as evidence I present the post I quoted.

The obvious aim of such a law is the suppression and eradication of the targeted culture, right? That’s what Putin intends with his Russian language law, and what the Ukrainian language law intends as well.

You're completely ridiculous. Congress CAN'T make a law like that, but states can and HAVE, including my home state of California, and several others. And it's not "cultural genocide," that's absurd. People can still speak and learn whatever language at home. Teaching only a single national language at schools just ensures all students will be able to succeed by having a shared language and by knowing the language in which the government operates.

In your example, do you really think Mariuopol should have public schools randomly teaching in the 5-6 languages you listed? That's crazy - societies can't function that way. Everyone that wants to keep speaking Russian or Polish will continue to do so in their own lives and neighborhoods. They'll just also be able to communicate with everyone else in the country as well.

 

[GOHOX69]

America is not evil, but there are many consequences for our actions. We could start diving into South America and what has happened there.
Or we could drop it and cheer on Russian teens being sent to there death unwillingly.

I don't disagree with parts of your thesis and I can understand what the US has done. They tried to f India too. Many times. Yet, now things are different. It's called realpolitik.
Russia has a simple way of not seeing their people die. Quit sending them over.

 

[CO_hawk]

No, it's not. You're a full on kook.

Lol shut up.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

We can go through the entire US history. But we really only need to go back a few years to Iraq and Afghanistan. Civilian casualties is American.

Eat 💩

 

[CO_hawk]

Eat 💩

Hello how are you?

 

[globalhawk]

From Wikipedia:

As of December 1, 2014, the city's population was 477,992. Over the last century the population has grown nearly twelvefold. The city is populated by Ukrainians, Russians, Pontic Greeks (including Caucasus Greeks and Tatar- and Turkish-speaking but Greek Orthodox Christian Urums), Belarusians, Armenians, Jews, etc. The main language is Russian.

Of course the main language is Russian. All satellite countries under the Soviet Union were required to learn and speak it.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Not a proud moment that is for sure. But you must have skimmed over the part where Bush apologized for it, Rumsfeld took responsibility for it, and eleven soldiers were convicted and others demoted. Not making excuses but one wartime prison in which captured soldiers were tortured is not tantamount to intentionally blowing the shit out of innocent civilians and/or their homes by the hour, if not minute, starving them out, taking civilians as hostages and using them to test enemy positions, taking civilians as hostages and sending them off to camps, and on and on and on.

He/she is too stupid and obtuse to appreciate a distinction that doesn’t align with their warped world view. Not worth the effort.


Biggest thread derailing prick in several days. Congrats @CO_hawk you colossal douchebag.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Hello how are you?

Better if you would stop derailing the thread with your inane BS.

 

[CO_hawk]

He/she is too stupid and obtuse to appreciate a distinction that doesn’t align with their warped world view. Not worth the effort.


Biggest thread derailing prick in several days. Congrats @CO_hawk you colossal douchebag.

Lets meet and talk. Should be fun.

 

[torbee]

He/she is too stupid and obtuse to appreciate a distinction that doesn’t align with their warped world view. Not worth the effort.


Biggest thread derailing prick in several days. Congrats @CO_hawk you colossal douchebag.

When this thread began, I had 2 posters on Ignore.

I now have 8.

Definitely has improved the reading experience.

The thing that amazes me about particularly idiotic posters is that almost all of them continue to double down on their idiocy even when 99.9% of other HROT posters - including those who vehemently disagree with each other often - call them out for their idiocy.

This current dipshine is a good example. Literally not a single poster has agreed, and those across the political and social spectrum of HROT are in near-unanimous agreement that they are being stupid. Yet they persist.

 

[Tenacious E]

He/she is too stupid and obtuse to appreciate a distinction that doesn’t align with their warped world view. Not worth the effort.


Biggest thread derailing prick in several days. Congrats @CO_hawk you colossal douchebag.

Assuming he is not actually a Russian troll, he should read the linked site on the fallacy of the undistributed middle. It should help him see false equivalencies.

 

[mnole03]

 

[Tenacious E]

When this thread began, I had 2 posters on Ignore.

I now have 8.

Definitely has improved the reading experience.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

Sounds like Ukraine requested 500 tanks today. Do we think the most likely sources would be countries like Poland that have the Soviet equipment Ukraine is used to?

"At present, Polish Army has a stock of 1009 tanks (2017). There are a total of 249 Leopard 2 tanks (117 Leopard 2A4, 105 Leopard 2A5, 25 Leopard 2PL, 2 Leopard 2NJ), 232 PT-91 tanks that underwent modernization in 2016, and 328 T-72 tanks. 230 of the T-72 are being upgraded by the Bumar-Labedy arms manufacturing plant."

We just sold them 250 M1s, so they should be good to sell those T72s.

 

[globalhawk]

I always think about how the United States dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians. Not quite as bad as what Russia is doing to Ukraine though...

It was unfortunate but better then trying to invade the main islands. That would have been a nightmare loss of soldiers. Remember the Japanese attacked the USA.

 

[CO_hawk]

It was unfortunate but better then trying to invade the main islands. That would have been a nightmare loss of soldiers. Remember the Japanese attacked the USA.

Not allowed to derail thread, Russia kills civilians. Fact.

 

[globalhawk]

They need to weigh whether the interaction will do more harm than good. It’s a propaganda state now like North Korea. Giving them a photo op and a meeting is good for the Russian war effort. They’ll show it to their people and say the Red Cross is supporting all the good work they’re doing.

And what will the Red Cross get in return.

The Red Cross isn’t and shouldn’t be political. They try to save lives enemy or ally.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

We just sold them 250 M1s, so they should be good to sell those T72s.

Not sure I'd jump into a T-72....

Pretty much a staple of "Tank gets blown the F up" video's since Gulf War 1.

 

[globalhawk]

Not allowed to derail thread, Russia kills civilians. Fact.

Derail? Not following you?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

The Red Cross isn’t and shouldn’t be political. They try to save lives enemy or ally.

Yep...can't do their stated mission without talking to the combatants.

 

[mnole03]

It was unfortunate but better then trying to invade the main islands. That would have been a nightmare loss of soldiers. Remember the Japanese attacked the USA.

There was also the Soviet threat and the very real risk that the emperor would let millions of his own people starve to death before turning over power. 1945 on the main islands was a potential humanitarian disaster on par with the Holodomor.

 

[globalhawk]

Watching the Biden press conference...

The media REALLY wants NATO/US to get involved militarily.

Unfortunately it’s working. Recent polling has the population trending that way.

 

[mnole03]

The Red Cross isn’t and shouldn’t be political. They try to save lives enemy or ally.

This isn’t political. This is a war and the propaganda from this will be used to justify and extend the war. Russia is pretending to deliver humanitarian aid to Donbas. They’ll use the Red Cross photos to support that claim.

 

[Tenacious E]

Not sure I'd jump into a T-72....

Pretty much a staple of "Tank gets blown the F up" video's since Gulf War 1.

That is such a glass half-empty attitude. I prefer to think of them as retaining heat really well when hit so that Russia does not have to bury their dead.

 

[globalhawk]

Killing 400,000 civilians with nuclear weapons is not? My bad. JFC.

How many dead American soldiers would have it taken to invade and control Japan conventionally? Apparently Japanese civilians were more important?

 

[Joes Place]

Joe, I don’t need to watch Sean Hannity so that I am able to “regurgitate” anything.
I also have heard of the Telephone Game. Such an outdated term.

So, you really don't get it, then.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Unfortunately it’s working. Recent polling has the population trending that way.

Hopefully the adults in charge realize the Iraq war was pretty popular going in....

Polls will change on a dime if shit gets ugly...

 

[Joes Place]

japan did?

Holy.Crap

You really have no idea what Japan did to SE Asian countries and China during WWII?

Christ On A Bike...

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

This isn’t political. This is a war and the propaganda from this will be used to justify and extend the war. Russia is pretending to deliver humanitarian aid to Donbas. They’ll use the Red Cross photos to support that claim.

It's their job to talk to the combatants...it's why they were created.

The ICRC's Mission Statement​

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is an impartial, neutral and independent organization whose exclusively humanitarian mission is to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.

The ICRC also endeavours to prevent suffering by promoting and strengthening humanitarian law and universal humanitarian principles.

Established in 1863, the ICRC is at the origin of the Geneva Conventions and the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. It directs and coordinates the international activities conducted by the Movement in armed conflicts and other situations of violence.

 

[mnole03]

It's their job to talk to the combatants...it's why they were created.

I understand that. You can do that without doing the photo op.

 

[RileyHawk]

Lol shut up.

😆 I should have said am immature kook.

 

[torbee]

This isn’t political. This is a war and the propaganda from this will be used to justify and extend the war. Russia is pretending to deliver humanitarian aid to Donbas. They’ll use the Red Cross photos to support that claim.

They will try, but they will not succeed. No one believes the Russians.

The Red Cross WAS in Russia discussing humanitarian assistance. As they should be. If the Russians want to take a pic and try to use it in a misguided effort to get the world on their "side" more power to them. Won't work. Won't matter.

 

[CO_hawk]

Derail? Not following you?

Not you me. Everyone's worried about Russia using nuclear/chemical weapons and the repercussions of those actions.