This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

torbee

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I'm done being afraid of Putin's nuclear weapons. I can't stand to sit back and watch this continue on and on with innocent civilians and children being ruthlessly slaughtered for Putin's ego. It's time for the US, Poland, GB, or someone to just give or help Ukraine with whatever they need to drive Russia out of their borders.
Yeah, I'm ready for NATO to declare a no-fly zone and sit back and dare Russia to do something about it.

I thought we don't negotiate with terrorists?
 

kc78

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Yeah, I'm ready for NATO to declare a no-fly zone and sit back and dare Russia to do something about it.

I thought we don't negotiate with terrorists?
yeah, I'm not saying we go in and invade Russia as much as I'd like to. But I would tell Putin that we won't sit back while he bombs innocent civilians. If he wants to hit military targets then fine, but shopping malls and churches are off limits and if it happens again we'll be forced to act.
 

h-hawk

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FWSb6RRWQAI8SlU
 

h-hawk

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I wonder if Macron has ever had a sincere moment or it he has always been a poser.

Event evening
@France2tv
“A President, Europe and the war” by
@GLagache Thursday, June 30 at 9:10 p.m.

 

h-hawk

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Are you ready to be the one that puts their life on the line?
But does it make sense to sacrifice Ukrainians and their cities to protect professional armies-wonder if NATO had stayed in shape, would they have done more. (Germany is a mere shadow of it former military strength.)
 

Tenacious E

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I wonder if Macron has ever had a sincere moment or it he has always been a poser.

Event evening
@France2tv
“A President, Europe and the war” by
@GLagache Thursday, June 30 at 9:10 p.m.

The imagery seems like he is actually the war president rather than zelensky. Kind of insulting. With that said, send more Caesars please.
 

seminole97

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Presumably describing it as 'indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians' polls more effectively than, 'their missiles have shitty accuracy'.

So apparently the mall is next to a rather big machine factory, there are multiple huge halls in the close proximity. Reportedly RU used Kh-22 in the attack, which AFAIK is radar guided and only good enough to hit huge contrasting ground targets - and from many such objects in the targeted area, it choose the mall building...

 
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But does it make sense to sacrifice Ukrainians and their cities to protect professional armies-wonder if NATO had stayed in shape, would they have done more. (Germany is a mere shadow of it former military strength.)
I wish all our men and women in our military could read your response. They signed up to defend the USA not be a political tool.

They are not just some professional army even if that's how people like you see them.
 

hawkeyetraveler

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Lake rimmed cities of the midwestern states
Presumably describing it as 'indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians' polls more effectively than, 'their missiles have shitty accuracy'.

So apparently the mall is next to a rather big machine factory, there are multiple huge halls in the close proximity. Reportedly RU used Kh-22 in the attack, which AFAIK is radar guided and only good enough to hit huge contrasting ground targets - and from many such objects in the targeted area, it choose the mall building...

JFC…so the defense of this action is they didn‘t mean to hit the mall…they just suck too much to be accurate?

Well they know just how inaccurate their missiles are and yet they chose a site that had a major civilian complex in the targeted zone. If someone sprays a crowd in a drive by shooting and kills a kid while missing their target are they no less guilty of murder?

Russia knowingly attacked an area with massive risk of civilian casualties. There is simply no justification for these war crimes. It is murder, plain and simple.

It is time to institute a no fly zone. It is time for better missile defense. It is time for more/longer range weapons and it is time for Ukraine to use them on all relevant Russian military targets.
 

seminole97

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JFC…so the defense of this action is they didn‘t mean to hit the mall…they just suck too much to be accurate?
I don’t perceive any of it as defensible. How good do you think 1980s Soviet precision guided ballistic missiles were? They planned to tip these things with nukes and fire lots of them.

As for the two weapons being launched, these are Kh-22 series supersonic cruise missiles, which today are carried exclusively by the Tu-22M3.
The Cold War-era Kh-22, known to NATO as AS-4 Kitchen, dates back to the early 1960s and production ceased as long ago as 1988.
The delta-wing missile is powered by a liquid-fuel rocket and is typically launched from a Tu-22M3 flying at a speed of Mach 1.5. The missile then accelerates to Mach 3 before approaching the target. In its terminal phase, the missile dives at a steep angle and attains a maximum speed of over Mach 4.
Originally, the Kh-22 was developed for attacking major warships, such as aircraft carriers, or for use against high-priority static targets on land. Two different guidance systems were available, an active radar seeker for use against ships, and a radar seeker combined with Doppler navigation and autopilot for prosecuting land targets.
In Cold War times, the Kh-22 was primarily armed with a nuclear warhead, although an alternative conventional high-explosive charge was available for the anti-ship version. The limited accuracy of the land-attack version meant that this one previously only carried a nuclear warhead, which would have been used against large targets like airfields or ports.
Interestingly, the video, if indeed taken during combat in Ukraine, would not only suggest that the Kh-22 made its combat debut during the conflict but also that a conventional warhead has been made available for the land-attack Kh-22MA/NA, or the anti-shipping Kh-22M/N has somehow been repurposed to attack targets on land. Reportedly, the land-attack versions of the Kh-22 had a circular error probability (CEP) of up to 3.1 miles, making the feasibility of a conventionally armed version of one of these highly questionable in most scenarios.

In the military science of ballistics, circular error probable (CEP) is a measure of a weapon system's precision. It is defined as the radius of a circle, centered on the mean, whose perimeter is expected to include the landing points of 50% of the rounds; said otherwise, it is the median error radius. That is, if a given munitions design has a CEP of 100 m, when 100 munitions are targeted at the same point, 50 will fall within a circle with a radius of 100 m around their average impact point.
 
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Hawkfan_08

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yeah, I'm not saying we go in and invade Russia as much as I'd like to. But I would tell Putin that we won't sit back while he bombs innocent civilians. If he wants to hit military targets then fine, but shopping malls and churches are off limits and if it happens again we'll be forced to act.

Or schools, or hospitals or the hundreds of homes/ apartments destroyed.
 

Hawkfan_08

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For all the good it will do...

I know you already had a sarcastic comment but I'm so confused why the Security Council has so much power. I can't wait to complain about this to Russia and watch Russia punish themselves. Even if they all (including China) said that Russia was guilty, Russia just gets to veto.

The security council needs to be redone with new countries that aren't selected for winning a war 80b years ago AND have new rules... or abolish the security council.

Remove Russia and add Nigeria for a permanent nation.
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2

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I know you already had a sarcastic comment but I'm so confused why the Security Council has so much power. I can't wait to complain about this to Russia and watch Russia punish themselves. Even if they all (including China) said that Russia was guilty, Russia just gets to veto.

The security council needs to be redone with new countries that aren't selected for winning a war 80b years ago AND have new rules... or abolish the security council.

Remove Russia and add Nigeria for a permanent nation.
There’s something all the permanent members of the security council have in common….
 

h-hawk

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I wish all our men and women in our military could read your response. They signed up to defend the USA not be a political tool.

They are not just some professional army even if that's how people like you see them.
I'm sure some of the soldiers who fought Germany instead of Japan in WW2 had your same too narrow view of military power.
 

noleclone2

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These last round of missiles launched by bombers, several at civilian targets in Kyiv, seem weird. Almost like a toddler throwing a tantrum at losing his checkers game and they were all that was left to throw. I read the estimated cost of them this last week was well over 200 million. Each one is a multimillion dollar missile.
 

fsu1jreed

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These last round of missiles launched by bombers, several at civilian targets in Kyiv, seem weird. Almost like a toddler throwing a tantrum at losing his checkers game and they were all that was left to throw. I read the estimated cost of them this last week was well over 200 million. Each one is a multimillion dollar missile.

*Cough* V-1/2 *cough*