This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

The difference is the "House liberals" cited in that article are a virtually powerless, small minority of the Democratic caucus.

On the GOP side, it is the House LEADER and ranking members of the Intel committee making that pitch.

In other words, the liberal dems calling for a change have literally no way to force that change. However, if the GOP regains control of the House in the midterms, their leadership members will have that power. And most likely will use it.

I'm just looking at House votes up to now...been a very small minority of R's voting against aid. That'll most likely increase....throw in 30 or so D's and that's a real problem.

 

[h-hawk]

It should be a neutral party not Russia doing the inspections.

 

[hawki4ever]

What an incredibly stupid quote from Jaypal in that WaPo story Bins linked:

“We are under no illusions regarding the difficulties involved in engaging Russia given its outrageous and illegal invasion of Ukraine,” the Democrats’ letter states. “If there is a way to end the war while preserving a free and independent Ukraine, it is America’s responsibility to pursue every diplomatic avenue to support such a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine.”

How dumb do you have to be to know you can't "preserve a free and independent Ukraine" while calling for a ceasefire while Russia STILL CONTROLS UKRAINIAN TERRITORY?!

The only "diplomatic avenue" for a solution if for Russia to get every one of its troops out of every part of sovereign Ukraine territory.

Plus the liberal caucus said they want to pair diplomatic negotiations with the current military support if I read it correctly. Not reduce or cut off military support.

 

[seminole97]

Kherson will be a major battle, I’d assume, and huge for Ukraine when they take it back over. I wonder when the offensive will happen to take it back?

It started August 29th.

 

[torbee]

Plus the liberal caucus said they want to pair diplomatic negotiations with the current military support if I read it correctly. Not reduce or cut off military support.

That is a frankly asinine desire, IMO.

Russia will absolutely view the U.S. pushing for negotiations as a sign of weakness. You cannot negotiate with a terrorist state, and until Russia stops behaving like one, they must be treated as one.

 

[torbee]

I'm just looking at House votes up to now...been a very small minority of R's voting against aid. That'll most likely increase....throw in 30 or so D's and that's a real problem.

And what do you think happens if/when the Republicans gain a majority in the House and the new House Majority Leader begins whipping votes to decrease funding, as he has pledged to do?

 

[hawki4ever]

That is a frankly asinine desire, IMO.

Russia will absolutely view the U.S. pushing for negotiations as a sign of weakness. You cannot negotiate with a terrorist state, and until Russia stops behaving like one, they must be treated as one.

Oh, I agree. I was just saying they were not saying they will stop or reduce military support as some of the Republicans have.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[noleclone2]

It started August 29th.

Yep. Been about 20k estimated Russian deaths reported since then too.

 

[thewop]

Plus the liberal caucus said they want to pair diplomatic negotiations with the current military support if I read it correctly. Not reduce or cut off military support.

This. Just like Rs don't want a "blank check."

Neither group calls for cutting off support, but both rightfully call for some structure/checks against unfettered spending.

As long as it looks like Ukraine can win this thing, we're going to see a vast majority of house and senate votes in support of Ukraine aid.

Some question/descent softens our image while still doing what we want (destroying Russian ability to make war, potentially toppling Putin without losing our own soldiers).

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

And what do you think happens if/when the Republicans gain a majority in the House and the new House Majority Leader begins whipping votes to decrease funding, as he has pledged to do?

McCarthy said they wouldn't get a "blank check". He's voted for previous Ukraine aid.... I think the actual "danger" as far as policy goes is increased pressure on Ukraine to negotiate. Coming right before winter really hits.....the pressure is going to start to mount from other NATO members as well. Especially with economies tanking...countries aren't going to be as eager to foot the bill for a war that looks to go into next summer and maybe longer in all likelihood.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

View embedded media

Not just the Republicans you have to worry about.

Ukraine is on the clock like it or not.....


The letter, sent to the White House on Monday and obtained by The Washington Post, could create more pressure on Biden as he tries to sustain domestic support for the war effort, at a time when the region is heading into a potentially difficult winter and Republicans are threatening to cut aid to Ukraine if they retake Congress.

In a letter led by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the 30 Democrats call on Biden to pair the unprecedented economic and military support the United States is providing Ukraine with a “proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”


The Democrats are specifically concerned that the United States is not engaging in regular dialogue with Russia as part of its effort to end a protracted war that has caused thousands of deaths and displaced 13 million people. The Biden administration has been adamant that it is up to Kyiv whether and when to negotiate with Russia, arguing that Ukrainians as a free people should decide their fate.
“The longer the war in Ukraine goes on, the greater the risk of escalation — to widespread, devastating effect,” Jayapal said in a statement to The Post. “We should have no illusions about the challenge ahead of us, but ... my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”
But some Russia experts say Moscow will only negotiate with the United States, a fellow superpower. The lawmakers say that opening must be seized given the war’s spreading devastation, adding, “The alternative to diplomacy is protracted war, with both its attendant certainties and catastrophic and unknowable risks.”

Interesting, talking about dialogue, the dangers of escalation, pushing for diplomacy...

Wonder how many of these scumbags are on Putin's payroll?

 

[torbee]

McCarthy said they wouldn't get a "blank check". He's voted for previous Ukraine aid.... I think the actual "danger" as far as policy goes is increased pressure on Ukraine to negotiate. Coming right before winter really hits.....the pressure is going to start to mount from other NATO members as well. Especially with economies tanking...countries aren't going to be as eager to foot the bill for a war that looks to go into next summer and maybe longer in all likelihood.

Yes, and that's why I think it is imperative for Ukraine to make significant progress in the next few months.

 

[seminole97]

Interesting, talking about dialogue, the dangers of escalation, pushing for diplomacy...

Wonder how many of these scumbags are on Putin's payroll?

“my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”

I presume ‘realistic framework’ means Crimea comes off the table.

I guess the Squad joins Orban on Myrotvorets.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Yes, and that's why I think it is imperative for Ukraine to make significant progress in the next few months.

Absolutely....going to be difficult when winter really sinks in...

They're going to have to press ahead full bore though. In a perfect scenario they could take a winter pause...build up stocks of weapons...train troops and let units reconstitute. Launch a major offensive in the spring....I don't think they have that time though.

 

[torbee]

Absolutely....going to be difficult when winter really sinks in...

They're going to have to press ahead full bore though. In a perfect scenario they could take a winter pause...build up stocks of weapons...train troops and let unite reconstitute. Launch a major offensive in the spring....I don't think they have that time though.

Theoretically, winter could be a boon for UKR.

The Russians are ill-equipped, in a defensive posture, away from home, in hostile territory and low on morale.

UKR is getting warm winter fighting gear and apparel from the likes of Norway, Canada and Finland, continues to upgrade its weapons systems, is fighting on homeground and has high morale.

I could see a major rout of Russian forces coming as winter descends.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

“my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”

I presume ‘realistic framework’ means Crimea comes off the table.

I guess the Squad joins Orban on Myrotvorets.

So we're talking concessions as well? I certainly hope these treasonous Putin stooges enjoy getting shipped off to St. Petersburg.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Theoretically, winter could be a boon for UKR.

The Russians are ill-equipped, in a defensive posture, away from home, in hostile territory and low on morale.

UKR is getting warm winter fighting gear and apparel from the likes of Norway, Canada and Finland, continues to upgrade its weapons systems, is fighting on homeground and has high morale.

I could see a major rout of Russian forces coming as winter descends.

Hope you're correct.

 

[noleclone2]

Absolutely....going to be difficult when winter really sinks in...

They're going to have to press ahead full bore though. In a perfect scenario they could take a winter pause...build up stocks of weapons...train troops and let units reconstitute. Launch a major offensive in the spring....I don't think they have that time though.

I don’t think they have enough equipment. This war has shown they were massively under prepped and supplied. From day one. They can’t even get their new mobilized troops any gear or equipment and are running low on 50 year old tanks. Russia is done.

 

[Mike Zierath]

Come on man, stop bringing politics into this thread

Isn’t that what it’s really about?

 

[noleclone2]

Isn’t that what it’s really about?

Yes. Some of it. I was being tongue in cheek for sure!

 

[Joes Place]

View embedded media

Seems to be a common tactic.....don't it?

 

[Joes Place]

View embedded media

Not just the Republicans you have to worry about.

Ukraine is on the clock like it or not.....


The letter, sent to the White House on Monday and obtained by The Washington Post, could create more pressure on Biden as he tries to sustain domestic support for the war effort, at a time when the region is heading into a potentially difficult winter and Republicans are threatening to cut aid to Ukraine if they retake Congress.

In a letter led by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the 30 Democrats call on Biden to pair the unprecedented economic and military support the United States is providing Ukraine with a “proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”


The Democrats are specifically concerned that the United States is not engaging in regular dialogue with Russia as part of its effort to end a protracted war that has caused thousands of deaths and displaced 13 million people. The Biden administration has been adamant that it is up to Kyiv whether and when to negotiate with Russia, arguing that Ukrainians as a free people should decide their fate.
“The longer the war in Ukraine goes on, the greater the risk of escalation — to widespread, devastating effect,” Jayapal said in a statement to The Post. “We should have no illusions about the challenge ahead of us, but ... my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”
But some Russia experts say Moscow will only negotiate with the United States, a fellow superpower. The lawmakers say that opening must be seized given the war’s spreading devastation, adding, “The alternative to diplomacy is protracted war, with both its attendant certainties and catastrophic and unknowable risks.”

If Republicans actually supported Ukraine, he would not feel the need to "hurry it up" before the elections...

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I don’t think they have enough equipment. This war has shown they were massively under prepped and supplied. From day one. They can’t even get their new mobilized troops any gear or equipment and are running low on 50 year old tanks. Russia is done.

Been hearing this for a few months now. Most of what I've been reading says most experts expect this to go into next Summer or longer....which is a problem. Not sure Ukraine will be given that much time.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

If Republicans actually supported Ukraine, he would not feel the need to "hurry it up" before the elections...

Pressure is going to mount to negotiate from many quarters in the months to come IMO. (30 House D's are advocating for it today) I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians are smart enough to read those tea leaves.

 

[noleclone2]

Been hearing this for a few months now. Most of what I've been reading says most experts expect this to go into next Summer or longer....which is a problem. Not sure Ukraine will be given that much time.

Ukrainian sources I follow all say spring will be the end. Also predicted bad late May, June and July before they were ramped up which was spot on. They are low as evidenced by new cannon fodder.

 

[h-hawk]

Theoretically, winter could be a boon for UKR.

The Russians are ill-equipped, in a defensive posture, away from home, in hostile territory and low on morale.

UKR is getting warm winter fighting gear and apparel from the likes of Norway, Canada and Finland, continues to upgrade its weapons systems, is fighting on homeground and has high morale.

I could see a major rout of Russian forces coming as winter descends.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

Interesting angle.

 

[bhawk24bob]

View embedded media

Are we sure Poland isn't fighting in this war with the circular firing squad?

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[billanole]

But then you'd throw a temper tantrum begging them to let you back in, and it'll turn into a big to-do.

But then you'd throw a temper tantrum begging them to let you back in, and it'll turn into a big to-do.

Bozo alert. Take the whine outside, please.

 

[ItsinourDNA]

With the worry that congress is starting to get antsy about giving Ukraine unlimited funds to pay for the war have we seen any update on legislation to use Russia's seized/frozen assets to start financing the war or is that a pipe dream?

 

[h-hawk]

 

[ItsinourDNA]

I'm just looking at House votes up to now...been a very small minority of R's voting against aid. That'll most likely increase....throw in 30 or so D's and that's a real problem.

View embedded media

Not just the Republicans you have to worry about.

Ukraine is on the clock like it or not.....


The letter, sent to the White House on Monday and obtained by The Washington Post, could create more pressure on Biden as he tries to sustain domestic support for the war effort, at a time when the region is heading into a potentially difficult winter and Republicans are threatening to cut aid to Ukraine if they retake Congress.

In a letter led by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the 30 Democrats call on Biden to pair the unprecedented economic and military support the United States is providing Ukraine with a “proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”


The Democrats are specifically concerned that the United States is not engaging in regular dialogue with Russia as part of its effort to end a protracted war that has caused thousands of deaths and displaced 13 million people. The Biden administration has been adamant that it is up to Kyiv whether and when to negotiate with Russia, arguing that Ukrainians as a free people should decide their fate.
“The longer the war in Ukraine goes on, the greater the risk of escalation — to widespread, devastating effect,” Jayapal said in a statement to The Post. “We should have no illusions about the challenge ahead of us, but ... my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire.”
But some Russia experts say Moscow will only negotiate with the United States, a fellow superpower. The lawmakers say that opening must be seized given the war’s spreading devastation, adding, “The alternative to diplomacy is protracted war, with both its attendant certainties and catastrophic and unknowable risks.”

This is a ploy being used only because the libs are starting to catch on that the GOP will simply vote for or against whatever is opposite to the dem position. When the time comes for the rubber to meet the road they will make the right decision.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[notlongago]

Could someone link me to the list of republican lawmakers requesting Ukraine cede land to invaders please? Wanted to do some more pre-election studying. TIA

 

[h-hawk]