Upon further review, I stand corrected. Perhaps having vastly superior material is a hedge against becoming the best swordsman in addition to having the best blacksmith.
To show just how important the 2023 recruiting class is and producing similarly at least every other year:
- Thread starter MSU158
- Start date
Or maybe…. Having the best material could give an advantage to a competent blacksmith over an excellent blacksmith with mid-tier matériels.
As long as the knife skins a cat....err, lion, I don't give a sh*t about the metal from which it's made. Just wanted to add another analogy.
Plus, isn't (pure) iron soft? Why would we want that in a wrestler. I'm really getting confused in this thread.
Might as well beat a dead horse. Actually 2 titles one official one, the covd year, unofficial. That team was better then the team that won it and DESTROYED the field at B1Gs!
You can take a look at just a few weight class and get a real understanding. 197 and heavy in my opinion are the 2 hardest weights to fill. My person opinion is 197 is the hardest. In any case. F*** kale not only had an AA guy at 1 of these weights, he had 1 at each AND "recruited" OVER them both.
I will give you an opportunity to show me ANYWHERE that this has EVER happened in either weight classes? The reason it can be done, is $$$/9.9 is not an issue. If you look at 197, Beard is darn good, and he might have had 4 years left due to cvid? It doesn't even make sense to think about bringing dean in, unless you don't have to even consider if you will have enough funds to bring in another top guy.
That point is strengthened by the fiasco at 125. Since soriano left, who was #1 or so. Just take a look at how many TOP guys they have brought in at this weight. It is unreal!!! One or more EVER year, not a problem.
Now think about some of the guys IOWA missed on. There has been a few "busts" hate to use that word but it is what it is. Remember how it hurt the team because so much scholly $$$ was tied up. Not only that, but you could not maybe go after another kid, because you choose to sign someone else.
This recruiting game is a bit of a crap shoot. Not ever kid is going to pan out, and sometimes there are diamonds in the ruff. If however you have no limits and can keep swinging for the fences. Well your odds go way up.
It is not like anyone with 1/2 a brain or thinking with any logic does not understand this. The F*** people want everyone to believe that the great Kael invented the wheel. All the other coaches just could not figure it out. " how is he winning????" Well Tom, John, dick and harry, he is out recruiting all of you combined!!! He has more #1s more top 5s, more top 10s then if you put all your teams together and made 1.
"OHHHHHH, why don't we do that???" " You think it is a good idea? " "wait, how in hell is he doing that!?!?!??!" Well some rich alumni gave him 6 million to play with and with no oversight= game on!!
Now, it happened, deal with it, figure it out, do what has to be done to play on that level!
and
NO need for any F*** bandwagon board talking BS fan to try and say otherwise.
All I was trying to say is no matter how good the recruiting is the coach is ultimately responsible for getting the wrestlers to stay somewhat healthy and peak in march. That said most coaches see this and as per tonight will see more younger wrestlers while resting the starters. The big 10 is a grind and few starters make it through without dings not to mention the competition in the room.
And here's the real answer. Everyone wants to be a winner. Young people love to associate themselves with winners. There is a bandwagon effect. Oh, but it actually takes effort to become the best.
But it surely does help create the bandwagon with one of, if not, the best set of coaches, one of the best facilities, one of, if not, the largest contributing alumni bases, and one of, if not, the best RTCs -- all in the center of one of, if not, the most dominant HS wrestling states.
Cael improved the coaching situation. Cael & Co's commitment help execute improvements to funding, the facilities, and the RTC resident athletes. The other attributes helped attract Cael to Penn State including Rich Lorenzo's vision for wrestling in Central PA, which happened to be identical to Cael's father's vision for Wasatch, UT.
Let's hope Iowa continues to work at being the best in these areas. It's better to double-down one's energy towards these ends than repeatedly howl on HR about what Penn State has been able to achieve--including the lazy thinking behind the theory that it's the recruits that lead to the other attributes.
How many P4P top 10 did PSU have on its first national championship team that were recruited by Cael in comparison to the top schools that year? You know, the championship that preceded this last decade?
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I’m just trying to figure out whether msu is ARGUING that it is INARGUABLE that Iowa’s wrestlers are made of weak metals like aluminum and brass, or that it is INARGUABLE that Iowa’s coaches are clumsy blacksmiths who break even the strongest metals.
Hey, @MSU158 — maybe clarify using Spencer Lee as an example? How does he fit into the forging and breaking analogy? I mean, he has broken a few times now but still beats the other swords. Is he just rising above bad blacksmithing? And Eierman? He didn’t overcome being broken — does that mean he was aluminum? 🤔
Just one more riddle to ponder in this INARGUABLE (despite all the ARGUING) analogy:
Sword made OF Ditka vs. Sword made BY Ditka — which one breaks?
Hey, @MSU158 — maybe clarify using Spencer Lee as an example? How does he fit into the forging and breaking analogy? I mean, he has broken a few times now but still beats the other swords. Is he just rising above bad blacksmithing? And Eierman? He didn’t overcome being broken — does that mean he was aluminum? 🤔
Just one more riddle to ponder in this INARGUABLE (despite all the ARGUING) analogy:
Sword made OF Ditka vs. Sword made BY Ditka — which one breaks?
C'mon man! It's a great analogy that's perfectly clear to all but the most dense closed-minded dolts, like myself.
Sure, it could be taken as an insult to Iowa's coaches and wrestlers, but two HR regulars liked it. Well, to be honest, maybe only one of the two seriously liked it (not you @el dub).
Awww, I now feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I thought my back and forths with a woefully ill equipped Tbar had come to an end with the closing down of thematforums. But, to my surprise, you have decided to reveal yourself here! Why 2 differently named accounts, though? A bit afraid to go full tilt on an Iowa board? I promise, I will take it easier on both accounts, now that I know who you are!
P.S., if one or neither of you are actually Tbar......Wow, I feel bad for you. The fact that you post here in a manner so similarly inept, is a VERY difficult thing to do. I benevolently suggest some serious inner reflection before posting on here again!
Oh, and the fact that it is actually 2 very openly PSU posters, even if they are not Tbar, only further bolsters my feelings regarding my INCREDIBLY APT analogy! Thanks for your contributions. Maybe, one day, most likely far from now if it happens, you will form a cogent, truly effective argument on this site.....Then again, probably not.
Good day, sir(s)!
Fact: 197: Cael did not recruit Dean. Dean sought out PSU to compete for the starting spot, with no guarantees. Michael Beard has moved on, as probably we all should.
Fact: An AA Nevills (Nick) and Cassar were "recruited" in the same year. The lightly recruited Cassar beat out Nick Nevills to become NCAA champ and the only to hand Gable Steveson a loss.
Fact: Cael did not win the Kerkvliet recruitment, and Kerkvliet eventually transferred from tOSU. Kerkvliet beat out a non-AA Nevills (Seth) for the starting job.
But please don't let facts get in the way of your rant. The bottom line is like @Grip220, PSU doesn't hand out participation trophies. The best wrestler wrestles.
Dude, I have only ever had one account. I don't even know @slushhead beyond his posts. I would never spend time writing parody news stories.
And I don't know and am not TBar either.
Not sure what this means. I am not tribal when it comes to my wrestling support. I don't come here bragging on PSU. I post on all boards using a single username. I challenge anyone to find any comment on HR (or elsewhere) where I made a negative comment about an Iowa coach or wrestler.
Nice, just what I would expect Tbar to say! I especially like you capitalizing the "B" in Tbar. Nice touch to try to throw me off the scent.
Now you have me interested in this Tbar or TBar character, whomever he, she, or they may be.Nice, just what I would expect Tbar to say! I especially like you capitalizing the "B" in Tbar. Nice touch to try to throw me off the scent.
In Reality does the 9.9 scholarship standard even mean anything anymore? I mean with the addition of NIL money those dollars FAR OUTWEIGH a free education's cost. Yes, i know the value of a great education in the long run, BUTTTTTT the instant CASH upfront is a huge factor and PSU has been over creative LONG before the NCAA caved into NIL demands. My Dad always told me " it takes Money , to make money " ....... and in this case it takes more spending to stay afloat for a national championship run. I am so tired of hearing about kids who wanted to attend PSU because $$$ didn't matter and their parents were wealthy enough to afford it. In reality these same kids were making 3 to 4000 dollars a week during the summer doing camps and clinics for Outrageous donations from wealthy anonymous donors
Right... but the Brands brothers admittedly took a more conservative approach in deference to their understanding of compliance, I've read.
So now, as always, is the best time to stop belly-aching and move forward with the current best understanding of the playing field.
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What did I do now? Lol I’m digging this convo.
Once again, sounds to me like a hedge (or two), but hey, I may be wrong.
Am I the only one who finds it ironic to be called out as an openly non-Iowa poster by someone with MSU in their handle? Might be evidence the bandwagon effect is real. Maybe upset about jumping on the wrong bandwagon.
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Yes, it is all about Ira. He provided the dough and Cael spent it. And, he spent it well, see all the Titles. But them times are over when they had effectively 5-6 more schollies than everybody else.
Use MSU's methodology to insert the 2023 class to our next years team. Many may redshirt, but put their p4p number to the weight. The playing field is leveling, by MSU's calc. As to bringing in an elite guy or two during "non-haul years", I believe we will. The proof is in the puddin on transfers too.
Game on Ped State
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I didn’t even know you were a PSU fan until just now.
IF, you have anything to say about your great cale, it would be the success rate at NCAAs. Now a lot of that is attributed to the Hammers that were 3Xs. Still, he has them pretty much injury free and ready to go. I will give you that, but once again. He has had a sh*t ton of the very best talent $$$ could buy!
I believe you have admitted to what I wrote above? They pumped $$$ in and I guess part of the "vision" made or paid the compliance dept. look the other way!
FACT- you are an idiot for writing this!!!! I put "recruit" like that. Do you believe Dean would leave Cornell for nothing!?!?!?! I mean are you crazy???
Nick N. and Cassar were both high end talent alone. Caesar went on the Sh*t gaining like 50 pounds in a year. I was more talking about lil KerKin. Again, please pretend you are not a fool when using the word "recruit." lil Kerkin was at OSU a damn fine school in itself. Somehow. he winds up at a rival school which already has an AA type heavy. Meaning, TWO full ride type of kids.
Also Snyder( about the best training partner he could have) may still have been at OSU? No worries, we will bring him in too! I know, Synder was not recruited, he just did not like the colors and wanted dreadful white and blue LOL!!!
That is FOUR full ride type kids at 2 weights and I believe ALL out of state too. I am still waiting on you or anyone else to show me ANY other team at ANY other time that has done this at 97 or Hvy!!!
This is 100% true. I do not think NIL is a good thing for college sports and it will be proven that many teams will not be able to compete in many sports. It however will help the HAWKS!
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You may not be the only one that finds it so, but that is more so due to your lack, and anyone else who agrees with you, of understanding when irony actually applies.
1.) I openly post with a very specific username and have explained on here in DETAILED specifics as to why I gravitated here.
2.) I am not posting on a topic comparing PSU to MSU. Sadly, MSU is too far behind for any reasonable discussion to be warranted.
3.) I basically matriculated to being an Iowa fan based on Metcalf(having watched him wrestle a TON prior to college) and Brands coming here from VTech. So, at the time I started, there was NO bandwagon to jump on. VTech had yet to do ANYTHING and Iowa was at its lowest of lows since well before Dan Gable took over. So, recent success, or "bandwagoning" IN NO WAY had even the slightest factor to my decision.
Keep being you. You may very well not be Tbar, but your skills(lack there of) are eerily similar!
Clarify how I am wrong? Both had potential to earn as coaches in clinics and as a NLWC member if they stayed. NLWC funding allows them the ability to pay more for those opportunities. I'm not insinuating anything nefarious, the wealth of the org has financial advantages for recruits.
Those two left for their own reasons, doesn't mean the couldn't have recouped some more $$.
Because I don't wear it on my sleeve... but since I've been outed, I might as well admit I was born and raised in SW PA, watched Iowa vs PSU on PBS on a 10 inch black and white TV, attended PSU and wrestling in the early 80s for 4 years of undergraduate, and am now an alumni.
And regardless of what anyone may allege or write on this or any other board, I will not hate on any wrestling program, coach or wrestler.
That town where Deer Hunter was filmed, right?
No. I believe he left because he didn't like the Ivy League's approach to Covid, which left him with too much uncertainty regarding his future. At least that's what Max Dean is on the record saying multiple times.
Right next door to Clairton. Raised in the fumes of its coke works. Probably explains my stunted mental growth.
Wow, four exclamation points. That's one more than my millennial niece uses.
At least I know what I wrote.
Fact: Your incoherent writing, as best as I could decifer it -- even with your loose definition of "recruit" -- indicates both Dean and Kerkvliet replaced AAs. That is patently incorrect.
Without a doubt, you are somebody's parody of the worst HR poster (or at least I hope that's the case).
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If I'm not mistaken, Snyder's fiance' (or wife) is premed was admitted to a PA medical school. University Park, PA is much closer to Woodbine, MD, where Snyder's family live. Snyder was thankful for his time in Columbus, but it was time for him to move on. The NLWC provided a win-win opportunity. No great mystery. I wouldn't begrudge the HWC if it landed J'Den, like some on HR have promoted.
I have it on good authority (@IRONBIRD) that people join and stay at the NLWC only for the big money. Therefore, for Hall and Joseph to not be at the NLWC (noting Joseph has moved on twice) must mean the big money opportunity for them wasn't available at the NLWC.
This makes me sad for MSU. Just imagine if PSU alumni had this mentality 15 years ago in comparison to Iowa, Oklahoma State, and Minnesota. But there will always be Jammenz of the world who switch allegiances rather than double-down their commitment. I am glad Iowa is all in.
Do some research. I have posted several times that my allegiance, first and foremost, lies with MSU. They still get plenty of my Alumni money. However, the product is terrible and I have had my fair share of conversations with the Athletic Department. They have been very clear, they don't care about performance other than graduate and don't get into trouble.
I like Roger and Chris. They are good guys and solid coaches. But, they aren't Cael, Casey, Terry or Tom by a longshot. Throw in that they STILL basically wrestle in a room like a basement while everyday students frolic just outside the door and I decided to watch another team for "simple pleasures". I always respected the Brands tenacity, which Metcalf mirrored, so I found Iowa to be a good fit.
So, basically, like pretty much every topic we have debated before, you have NO CLUE what you are talking about...
I like Roger and Chris. They are good guys and solid coaches. But, they aren't Cael, Casey, Terry or Tom by a longshot. Throw in that they STILL basically wrestle in a room like a basement while everyday students frolic just outside the door and I decided to watch another team for "simple pleasures". I always respected the Brands tenacity, which Metcalf mirrored, so I found Iowa to be a good fit.
So, basically, like pretty much every topic we have debated before, you have NO CLUE what you are talking about...
AND I am incoherent!?!?! They replaced AA type, meaning highly ranked/regarded. You want to bet Beard AAs lil man?
You are mistaken!!!
Look at the weight classes dummy. What weights would they go???
You added "AA type" after the fact,, which apparently is a term you solely define. But whatever.
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Dake and Nolf are in the same weight class. Part of your shtick is Cael promises recruits a stint as a stipended resident athlete in the NLWC as a guarantee to entice them. I presented Hall and Joseph as an example that clearly contradicts your lame assertion. That Snyder, Dake, and Gillman are also non-PSU recruits at the NLWC further undercuts your lame assertion. It demonstrates one does not need to wrestle for PSU to earn the benefit you allege Cael promises.
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What the hell are you even talking about? Last I heard Hall was trying MMa or something? For all I know Joseph could be an Indian Chief. Not every Wrestler continues on with the sport DUH!!!!
For someone purportedly in the know, you sure are ignorant of a lot. Pretty much par for the course. Hall is at Penn's RTC. Joseph is at Arizona State's. Both continue to pursue Freestyle.
PSU didn't get Dean?!?! I could swear he was in a PSU singlet last season. Who did he end up with?
But seriously, I think you missed the point. With #11 Beard already at 197#, PSU's numbers regarding highly ranked recruits was even better without Dean.
Now, with Dean already at the level of NCAA runnerup at Cornell, before transferring to PSU, he wasn't exactly a risky transfer that needed Cael's magical fairy dust to "develop."
Don't let your obsession with picking apart analogies and nitpicking over wording blind you to the big picture that MSU clearly laid out - for whatever reason, PSU has been getting top tier recruits far, far, far more often than Iowa.
Most people with any sense would realize that gives them a huge advantage, right out of the gate.
Your unhinged rants are usually endearing. However, quit being a libelous turd and baselessly accusing an athlete of being “on the sh*t”. Simply uncalled for, moran.
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