There is no doubt that PSU fielding a winner under Cael has brought us all in. But surely you know Pennsylvania’s reputation for wrestling and how we have 11 D1 programs. Cael has united us. But we’ve all been competing in and following wrestling for decades. You know this because a lot of your greats are from PA.
To show just how important the 2023 recruiting class is and producing similarly at least every other year:
- Thread starter MSU158
- Start date
I don't mind gong into the gutter with your dbag friends. They lose everytimeDo better. This type of dbaggery should be beneath you.
Say what you want. But Cael is a douche bag. And time will tell with the over recruiting. Again only ten slots. Time will tell. And lots of the fans over there are fake. Again winning is contagious and the fake fans flock in. And half fans aren’t real. Makes me sick. They really didn’t even know who the guy that did the splits at 125. It’s nico you idiots!! Total crazy. Iowa fans know who is who.
it would be nice if a major donor would stop saying “ped state.” have some class.
"[Landlords] are the only one of the three orders whose revenue costs them neither labour nor care, but comes to them, as it were, of its own accord, and independent of any plan or project of their own. That indolence, which is the natural effect of the ease and security of their situation, renders them too often, not only ignorant, but incapable of that application of mind"
-Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations
"[Landlords] are the only one of the three orders whose revenue costs them neither labour nor care, but comes to them, as it were, of its own accord, and independent of any plan or project of their own. That indolence, which is the natural effect of the ease and security of their situation, renders them too often, not only ignorant, but incapable of that application of mind"
-Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations
Reasonable response, but look to the root of what happened.
Lubert, and former wrestler and good guy, wanted PSU to dominate. He went and recruited Cael. He promised and delivered on a new facility and endowed the club. He demanded that Cael get the best guys and promised to pay them beyond the 9.9 restriction. All was done. Most of that is right and proper, but the latter was most certainly very grey (at the time, but now changed with NIL). So be it.
Iowa lost and changed. Each area was addressed, resulting in the best team in 2020, and a title in 2021. 2022 was difficult as we all know, and PSU won fair and square.
Don't for a second think you're going to go on another big run as all those advantages are gone.
I'd suggest that Ped State has no class. When your boy Paterno found out Sandy was a Ped, why did he not have him arrested? We know the answer to that. And Joe Pa's legacy which he was trying to protect is flushed.
I have alot of respect for Western PA and NE Ohio as my parents are from there and it's lousy with relatives. In fact, I go to a reunion every Tgiving there. I love the people and place. Those same people all agree of the stain Joe put on the Uni. They are not in Da Nile like most of you who are soaked in it.
As to being a Landlord, hit me with a fact on Monarch you don't agree with. I'll start. We are the largest owner of workforce (affordable) housing in the US. We are 97.5% occupied vs ave of 94% for other owners. Our renewal rates are 70% vs ave of 53. Our rent averages 1000 per month vs ave of 2000. We take care of our properties and residents. The market (our customers) like us based on the aforementioned.
Fire away with facts. Happy to address them. The Bloomberg activist (check out his other writings) worked for four months on his garbage and got it all wrong, because he wanted it wrong.
My late grandfather was a tremendous story teller and one of the bravest men I’ve ever known. One day we went fishing. If youve ever gone fishing In The Midwest you know if you catch the weather just wrong along the river and on the wrong day the flies and bugs will be all over you. Being a young hot tempered kid I give up on the idea of fishing after a quick. annoying 30 minutes. The flies are to much for me and they are bugging the shit out of me. I throw my pole down and head back to the truck.
A few minutes later grandpa comes up to the truck and says when I was in Vietnam, immediately he has my attention, story’s don’t start that way very often with grandpa. He says when I first got to Vietnam, everyone that came with my was having a hard time adjusting to the heat and the bugs. The bugs were everywhere and the heat was draining. Eventually someone plucked up the courage to ask someone that had been there for awhile how they were coping with all of it. They told my grandpa and his pals that the flies are part of the ecosystem. Nothing you can do about it. It’s hot as hell, the rain comes, then the flies follow. He said, if you swat at them, they stir. When they stir they fly around and bug everyone around you. It’s best to become part of the ecosystem with them. Learn to cope with the flies, drink water, and change your socks.
We went back fishing, I picked up my pole and dealt with it as best I could. I wasn’t happy. But doing something I liked with a loved one outweighed the discomfort.
You love Iowa wrestling, that’s clear. So do I. Don’t swat the PSU flies. Some flies are bigger assholes than other. They won’t stop bugging you if you swat. They’ll stir and ruin any chance we have at talking Hawks wrestling. Seems like they’re part of the ecosystem here, and I doubt they’re going away.
I personally feel this is year 2 of Penn States next 4 year run. And if anyone knocks them off, its not going to be Iowa..
This, 100%. It's a bad look and in poor taste from anyone, let alone someone whose name is going to be on the new facility
@bnicolls I certainly understand the temptation to throw "Ped State" in the face of any Penn State wrestling fan who engages HR in order to get under their skin with the hope they'll go away and never return.
I believe a man such as yourself, who has achieved all that you have, is smart enough to know many Penn State fans wanted all responsible for enabling Sandusky's actions to be fully held accountable.
I also believe, anyone that reflects on the repeated use of "Ped State" as such a tool on something so inconsequential as a public wrestling discussion forum will come to realize doing so demeans the victims of Sandusky. I believe you are a better man than the kind who would want to make such frivolous use their tragedy. It just seems too callous.
God bless and be well.
I believe a man such as yourself, who has achieved all that you have, is smart enough to know many Penn State fans wanted all responsible for enabling Sandusky's actions to be fully held accountable.
I also believe, anyone that reflects on the repeated use of "Ped State" as such a tool on something so inconsequential as a public wrestling discussion forum will come to realize doing so demeans the victims of Sandusky. I believe you are a better man than the kind who would want to make such frivolous use their tragedy. It just seems too callous.
God bless and be well.
Don't worry about my demeanor. I'm always ready for a good street fight. Love it really
For the record, I was 100% against the name issue. Ask around re that, I could not care less about looks either
Believe me, I get it. A long time ago I decided, if I was in a real street fight and there was a brick handy, I'd use it. Thankfully I'm a lot older now and much further removed from that likelihood.
is @Mike Zierath back from fishing yet? Just want to know if the ceasefire was ended officially. It seems the nuts are firing rockets over the main land again.
Did I miss your post where you did the ‘what does an article about a landlord who I don’t rent from or deal do for this thread’
Or is that type of response reserved for moments when people invoke the memory of one of the nastiest stains a university can have?
Feel free to be consistent in your approach if you are attempting to carry on with your ‘pointing out and addressing disinformation’
When Jerry Sandusky starts posting on this thread (and being a jackass) , then you may have something resembling a point. Until then, you’re still just rolling around in waste.
Given that flies spread disease, you chose an interesting metaphor, but we get your point. You may have learned to live with those flies, but that doesn't make them any the less annoying.
However, given the number of cheapshots on both sides, I'd sooner wear DEET.
When did I ever say I was in the know about what every F*** STer is doing? I mainly follow IOWA, local HS, and Freestyle. I do NOT ever go to others boards. I follow and read a lot of posts on certain pages. I do not have anything against those wrestlers, I just do not have time to follow everyone so I much rather follow those who I have more interest in. Clearly said it as I was not sure what they were up to.
If it walks like a duck...... One thing I will give you MORON, is I can never proof it. As I have said. Long before PEDs were "front page news" I was pointing out all the obvious Pros who were using them. Especially in Baseball because back in the early 90s most were claiming it was not a thing. Judge just hit 62, I will pass on what I think, but MANY including Roger Maris Jr. would say it is the real record. Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire all were on it! Was never "proven" for guys like you. Have you ever watched NFL talk shows MORON. Have you ever seen former Pros, especially lineman on these shows. Have you seen guys like Howie Long for example. Do you believe he went from 275-290 pounds of steel to maybe 220ish because he stopped eating his wheaties!?!?!? I have been in the game for around 45 years. I have seen a lot, and I saw the pictures. I also know the injures he had. Put it all together MORON!
Very interesting to read this and get the fact that PA does have 11 D1 programs. PA is the best HS Wrestling in the country, but it is F*** st only that can bring in truck loads of talent? Hmm?
Really, would love to hear you reasons for this? I will say NO on the run, and I will say if not IOWA, who do you have? Also I would be very careful about getting out your bandwagon and gliding it down into your happy Valley place for the Victory parties. The HAWKS are setting themselves up for what could be an EPIC run. I need to see one or 2 more pieces come into place before I will jump outa my seat, but another NC is so close I can taste it!!!
Oh, tell me all about Monarch. I'm interested to know.Sadly, I have some experience dealing with landlords like bnicoll.
Definite kudos for responding to four people in one post. Impressive!
So Cael took over at PSU for the 2010-2011 season. By some reports out of the Iowa fan base, his program has promised and given away money against NCAA rules since his arrival. Your program has starters in its lineup now and over the past 12 years that would have been promised and even given this rule-breaking money. So have Rutgers, Michigan, Ohio State, Virginia, and many, many others. Am I to believe this has all happened with so many in the know and without the NCAA investigating and finding violations?
It never has been since Carl showed up in Happy Valley.
It’s amazing how any topic about the major recruiting success PSU has had under Sanderson riles PSU fans up so much. It literally happens every time. Why does it bother you guys so much to simply say it is the most significant reason PSU wresting has been so successful?
Look, even Mr. Nicolls hasn’t said it was cheating. He simply said grey area and his hatred it so obvious he would say “cheating” if he had any inkling it was. I challenge you to find where I ever once said any cheating went on. I just don’t get the sensitivity on the topic. Do you think Alabama fans get upset when any complains about their recruiting advantage in Football? Hell, it is extremely more likely they WERE actually cheating in a revenue rich sport.
Instead of coming here whining over a fan base trying to find answers to why they have been behind PSU and how to fix it, act like you have some respect for the room you are in. You wonder why the guy spending so much money trying to help Iowa succeed hates you so openly? Could he be the “bigger” man and ignore you? Sure. But, why should he have to? Very few of you on here have given him a reason to do so…
Look, even Mr. Nicolls hasn’t said it was cheating. He simply said grey area and his hatred it so obvious he would say “cheating” if he had any inkling it was. I challenge you to find where I ever once said any cheating went on. I just don’t get the sensitivity on the topic. Do you think Alabama fans get upset when any complains about their recruiting advantage in Football? Hell, it is extremely more likely they WERE actually cheating in a revenue rich sport.
Instead of coming here whining over a fan base trying to find answers to why they have been behind PSU and how to fix it, act like you have some respect for the room you are in. You wonder why the guy spending so much money trying to help Iowa succeed hates you so openly? Could he be the “bigger” man and ignore you? Sure. But, why should he have to? Very few of you on here have given him a reason to do so…
In the spirit of the week, I am thankful for the balanced fans here from all bases. Who knows what fraction of them are even following this dandy anymore …
Well, it now seems clear to me who the unnamed “source” is for the conspiracy theory claims made or implied against PSU over the years by the likes of @WWDMHawkeye , @DonHawkeye , @armbartilt , etc. Oh well, keep beating that drum — it hasn’t changed the landscape one iota in 10 years.
Old-man tough-guy bravado is amusing. Seems to me someone is a wee bit jealous of Ira Lubert and eager to be as successful and impactful as he. Keep at it, stud, this thread has been a great look, lol.
Now, can we get back to comparing wrestling recruits and coaches to metals, blacksmiths, and their various sword products? My next thought on that analogy was going to be that wrestling recruits aren’t really raw metals waiting to be forged by a blacksmith at all. I mean, they are already swords by the time they get into a college room. In that respect, college coaches aren’t blacksmiths (maybe grade school coaches are?). And who would ever seek out a sword made of aluminum? Doesn’t seem like a realistic scenario . . . not at the D1 level, at least. Maybe a club team would accept aluminum, but that’s not really a recruiting discussion.
No, I think something else is going on. It’s almost like top-end guys with lofty goals believe a coach with GOAT-level accolades and a proven track record might be a good fit for helping them reach those goals. And that the coach has a great eye for personalities that fit his approach. Success builds more success, and dreams outweigh money, and the snowball grows.
Talk $$$ all you want, but PSU’s NCAA performances on the big stage are the biggest recruiting tool of all. I’m sure this was true of the 1980s-90s Hawkeye teams, as well. You didn’t have to know any details about any coach or program to know that Iowa is where you went if you were serious about being a champ. Gable’s success in developing the Iowa program simply became that big. That’s the territory Cael & Co. are in now. The tide will turn someday, but it will be due more to program success and coaches reaching their wrestlers than to $$$ alone. Coaches eventually age out — that is the catalyst you should be watching for.
Old-man tough-guy bravado is amusing. Seems to me someone is a wee bit jealous of Ira Lubert and eager to be as successful and impactful as he. Keep at it, stud, this thread has been a great look, lol.
Now, can we get back to comparing wrestling recruits and coaches to metals, blacksmiths, and their various sword products? My next thought on that analogy was going to be that wrestling recruits aren’t really raw metals waiting to be forged by a blacksmith at all. I mean, they are already swords by the time they get into a college room. In that respect, college coaches aren’t blacksmiths (maybe grade school coaches are?). And who would ever seek out a sword made of aluminum? Doesn’t seem like a realistic scenario . . . not at the D1 level, at least. Maybe a club team would accept aluminum, but that’s not really a recruiting discussion.
No, I think something else is going on. It’s almost like top-end guys with lofty goals believe a coach with GOAT-level accolades and a proven track record might be a good fit for helping them reach those goals. And that the coach has a great eye for personalities that fit his approach. Success builds more success, and dreams outweigh money, and the snowball grows.
Talk $$$ all you want, but PSU’s NCAA performances on the big stage are the biggest recruiting tool of all. I’m sure this was true of the 1980s-90s Hawkeye teams, as well. You didn’t have to know any details about any coach or program to know that Iowa is where you went if you were serious about being a champ. Gable’s success in developing the Iowa program simply became that big. That’s the territory Cael & Co. are in now. The tide will turn someday, but it will be due more to program success and coaches reaching their wrestlers than to $$$ alone. Coaches eventually age out — that is the catalyst you should be watching for.
Your initial post creating this thread was a great read. It was posts 5 and 15 that got the ball rolling to what it became. You’re right; maybe we shouldn’t care so much about the constant accusations.
No one here really takes umbrage with anyone saying “wow Cael [Carl] recruits so well, that’s why they keep beating us!” It’s the continuous unfounded accusations of cheating and drug use and all that that really does more to harm the credibility of this board than of PSU wrestling.
There are definitely some anti-Iowa sentiments on the PSU board, but this board just bleeds its own Iowa self hate here where regular Iowa posters seem to be working overtime to give their own program a bad name.
Look, I have been told several times by a cadre of HR posters I am an idiot, my opinion doesn't matter, and I am not going to convince anybody here, so I should just go away.
But since you asked, I read the source of the article, Bloomberg, and was left with an impression it could be biased. I didn't waste time reading the article, because I wasn't available to follow the thread to that level of detail (doing other things). I still haven't read the article.
I read @bnicolls reply to it, and was more than satisfied.
In the interest of full disclosure, Bloomberg gives a lot of money to my second Alma Mater, Johns Hopkins University, and we've got to keep our big money donors.
I didn't "like" that post (here or on Penn State's board), just as I don't others that fans might post here that I think are done to "start shit."
When in a street fight, it's always wise to have a reliable second man at the ready to jump in, should a fight become unfair.
From what he wrote, it seemed to me, @bnicolls didn't need any assistance and was enjoying himself. I took him at his word.
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As a PSU fan, discussion of PSU's recruiting success doesn't rile me up.
I only pointed out that your analysis puts the cart before the horse, in that it doesn't address what caused and causes those recruits to choose Penn State. Their choosing is a result rather than a cause. There is a larger enterprise that is driving PSU's success.
Thankfully for Iowa, Coach Brands and donors like @bnicolls are actually doing something material that will attract more top recruits to Iowa. And that doesn't include wasting energy complaining about the past.
So defend any perceived slight against psu, present as ‘just here to talk wrestling’, point out that the scandal doesn’t reflect on wrestling…. Got it.
Every time someone like 98lbs calmly and charitably gives you a chance to acquit yourself of the idiocy that sometimes oozes from some of the low information posters here, you double down and shoot yourself in the dick.
After Reading this thread, My God
I don't expect I'll waste my Sunday or anytime soon reading that article.
I don't think posting that article is consistent with this forum's purpose. But I understand it was in retaliation for the repeated use of "Ped State" just like I understand why someone might use "Ped State" in the first place.
By the time I returned to read the thread it had spiraled. The forum equivalent of a "street fight" was going on. In "street fights" there are no rules, and I am presently nobody's second man in. So I chose not to engage. It's that simple. I am not interested in street fighting.
It's the forum moderator's responsibility to moderate, right? I trust they'll do their job.
Doesn't bother me one bit and freely admit Cael is the best recruiter in the country. I mean he's more likeable than the Brands Bros and he also has a track record of turning his elite recruits into multiple time National champs. So yeah, I too am not really sure why there's always a big deal or even why Hawk fans like to even mention it. Maybe they are hoping the NCAA will turn recruiting into a charity like Unicef and force Cael into letting other coaches have the kids he wants.
Wainamina…. We like our guys. And we get who we want. Only the best fits.
Whatever strategy/formula/plan/calculation/deal/scheme that Carl has going on, it seems like it's working. That record speaks for itself year after year. What doesn't work is your collective need to control every other board where someone somewhere might say sh*t about St. Carl. If we're the self-hating fan-base, then why are you constantly here defending him? Now some of these other Cesspool morans may like to go over to BWI and yank your chains, but I don't, and I always encourage them not to. That's YOUR cesspool, and it smells way different than ours, but not any better.
So the upshot is that some of you folks live on borrowed grievance all day, every day, because you can't stand the fact that appointed saints, whether they're Carl, Paterno, JRob, Tan Tom, Gable, or the Brands Bros, can have feet of clay. The problem is not in the men, because they are all human. The problem is that assumption of (and demand for) sainthood for DI coaches, because to admit anything less is to imply weakness in the program and maybe even the university, and that might have a negative affect on recruiting.
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