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US to end 'gun show loophole' that allows sales without background checks

billanole

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Mar 5, 2005
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It will classify around 23,000 vendors as licensed firearms dealers, making their gun sales subject to the checks.

Attorney General Merrick Garland said: "If you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you must be licensed.”
 
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The article doesn't offer much clarity on what the actual changes are.

It will classify around 23,000 vendors as licensed firearms dealers, making their gun sales subject to the checks.
...
Around 80,000 licensed firearms dealers in the US who are already required to conduct background checks.



Every vendor I've encountered at a gun show runs a background check, because they sell enough firearms they have an FFL.

If there is a waiting period you pick it up at local FFL like a pawn shop or gun store that collects a fee holding it.

The 'gun show loophole' referred to people that would bring a gun to a gun show and walk around with a sign saying it was for sale. Private party sale to another person doesn't get an FBI instant background check.
'Universal' background checks meant forbidding these kind of private sales.

But from the article, I don't think that is the '23,000 vendors' that are about to get a license requirement.

So I'm not sure what this change is actually doing and who it will affect.
 
Like other gun dealers, they need to abide by laws regulating gun sales. Licensed dealers are regulated.
I haven’t looked at the laws in a while but to me this sounds like some sort of back door regulation of private sales. I just don’t know how you define who is in or out, much less enforce it.
 
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The article doesn't offer much clarity on what the actual changes are.

It will classify around 23,000 vendors as licensed firearms dealers, making their gun sales subject to the checks.
...
Around 80,000 licensed firearms dealers in the US who are already required to conduct background checks.



Every vendor I've encountered at a gun show runs a background check, because they sell enough firearms they have an FFL.

If there is a waiting period you pick it up at local FFL like a pawn shop or gun store that collects a fee holding it.

The 'gun show loophole' referred to people that would bring a gun to a gun show and walk around with a sign saying it was for sale. Private party sale to another person doesn't get an FBI instant background check.
'Universal' background checks meant forbidding these kind of private sales.

But from the article, I don't think that is the '23,000 vendors' that are about to get a license requirement.

So I'm not sure what this change is actually doing and who it will affect.
It is not targeting the local guy who sells a gun from time to time while upgrading or downsizing a collection. This is bringing under regulation those who routinely sell multiple weapons at gun shows for profit… gun dealers who don’t abide by current regulations.
Licensed dealers must log in any weapon that they purchase and then log out the weapon when it is transferred, in compliance with both federal and state law regarding the particular weapon classification.
This eliminates felons, for instance from “trading” guns on the semi regular gun show circuit.
 
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I haven’t looked at the laws in a while but to me this sounds like some sort of back door regulation of private sales. I just don’t know how you define who is in or out, much less enforce it.
I don’t know detailed regs, but selling multiple guns for profit on a regular basis kinda defines you as a dealer.
Different items but a similar take… in North Carolina an auction house can only sell a limited number of cars per year without triggering the requirement to be a licensed dealer.
 
I don’t know detailed regs, but selling multiple guns for profit on a regular basis kinda defines you as a dealer.
Different items but a similar take… in North Carolina an auction house can only sell a limited number of cars per year without triggering the requirement to be a licensed dealer.
Yes, I read a little more and it sounds like they have exempted occasional sales and are targeting repetitive private sales.

On balance would be a good thing.
 
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The article doesn't offer much clarity on what the actual changes are.

It will classify around 23,000 vendors as licensed firearms dealers, making their gun sales subject to the checks.
...
Around 80,000 licensed firearms dealers in the US who are already required to conduct background checks.



Every vendor I've encountered at a gun show runs a background check, because they sell enough firearms they have an FFL.

If there is a waiting period you pick it up at local FFL like a pawn shop or gun store that collects a fee holding it.

The 'gun show loophole' referred to people that would bring a gun to a gun show and walk around with a sign saying it was for sale. Private party sale to another person doesn't get an FBI instant background check.
'Universal' background checks meant forbidding these kind of private sales.

But from the article, I don't think that is the '23,000 vendors' that are about to get a license requirement.

So I'm not sure what this change is actually doing and who it will affect.

Maybe guns shows are different in other states, I have purchased more than 1 gun at Iowa Gun Shows and have always had a background check completed by the dealer I purchased the gun through. I agree with you this regulation is likely to limit private sales. I don't see much changing at Gun Shows I attend.
 
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Maybe guns shows are different in other states, I have purchased more than 1 gun at Iowa Gun Shows and have always had a background check completed by the dealer I purchased the gun through. I agree with you this regulation is likely to limit private sales. I don't see much changing at Gun Shows I attend.
Also if purchasing a pistol you need to have a permit to purchase which is issued by the Sheriffs Department after a thorough background check.
 
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Maybe guns shows are different in other states, I have purchased more than 1 gun at Iowa Gun Shows and have always had a background check completed by the dealer I purchased the gun through. I agree with you this regulation is likely to limit private sales. I don't see much changing at Gun Shows I attend.
Your post suggests that you were buying from a “dealer”, who would therefore already be in compliance of regulations.
The new regulations would require those who regularly sell multiple weopons for profit to basically become licensed dealers.
 
Your post suggests that you were buying from a “dealer”, who would therefore already be in compliance of regulations.
The new regulations would require those who regularly sell multiple weopons for profit to basically become licensed dealers.
Yes I agree like I said in my post this is intended to limit private sellers not people who actually setup and sell at Gun Shows.
 
Your post suggests that you were buying from a “dealer”, who would therefore already be in compliance of regulations.
The new regulations would require those who regularly sell multiple weopons for profit to basically become licensed dealers.
Everyone selling guns at a Iowa gun show requires you (the buyer) to complete the background check paperwork without exception. Whether they are a licensed dealer or an occasional seller of guns.
 
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I haven’t looked at the laws in a while but to me this sounds like some sort of back door regulation of private sales. I just don’t know how you define who is in or out, much less enforce it.
It wasn't that long ago that the ATF tighten regulations to close down the kitchen table FFLs. Now they need to try to undo that mistake.
 
Yes I agree like I said in my post this is intended to limit private sellers not people who actually setup and sell at Gun Shows.
My question to you would be are you buying from a licensed dealer?
This new reg is intended, among other things, to make sure folks making multiple, regular transactions for profit are indeed licensed dealers. The good ole boy trading weapons routinely without licensure is one of the folks they are trying to regulate.
 
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I know multiple folks who travel the circuit setting up and selling at antique and art shows. This is their bread and butter revenue source. They collect sales tax as required per state in which the transactions occur. They sell to retail buyers who pay sales tax and to dealers with a retail number exempting them from sales tax.
I would speculate a similar system is in place at “gun shows.” If you buy a weapon at a gun show, you should have to proceed through gun sale requirement and federal documentation requirements.
 
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If you buy a weapon at a gun show, you should have to proceed through gun sale requirement and federal documentation requirements.
This happens already. Pretty sure “gun show loophole” is an outdated term. Maybe it’s a state by state thing. In Colorado this practice stopped years ago.

I think this is getting at people buying and selling on their own.
 
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This will have Zero effects on gun violence. Zero. The non criminals will just follow the law and the criminals will continue to buy theirs on the black market or steal them.

But this probably makes people feel better
 
This will have Zero effects on gun violence. Zero. The non criminals will just follow the law and the criminals will continue to buy theirs on the black market or steal them.

But this probably makes people feel better
I agree minimal effect.

I much prefer banning certain firearms outright!
 
Can you just imagine all the gun manufacturers and their NRA suck-ups pleading with their GOP lackeys in Congress to stop this? Their phones must be ringing off the hook!
 
This happens already. Pretty sure “gun show loophole” is an outdated term. Maybe it’s a state by state thing. In Colorado this practice stopped years ago.

I think this is getting at people buying and selling on their own.
Nah. This is about closing up unrestricted sales by folks who pretend to only have an infrequent transaction. If you regularly sell firearms at gun shows, you should follow gun dealer regs.
Those MF are a regular source for criminal transactions. Gun shows pretend to be one off sales by individuals. They are truly transactions by unregulated weopons traders.
 
Nah. This is about closing up unrestricted sales by folks who pretend to only have an infrequent transaction. If you regularly sell firearms at gun shows, you should follow gun dealer regs.
Those MF are a regular source for criminal transactions. Gun shows pretend to be one off sales by individuals. They are truly transactions by unregulated weopons traders.
Not the ones I’ve been to, but again, maybe it’s state by state.
 
Not the ones I’ve been to, but again, maybe it’s state by state.
You feel like the folks you purchase from are just regular guys selling dad’s guns? Or, are they dealers setting up regularly at gun shows? The regular guys skirt regulations.
You are smarter than that.
 
You feel like the folks you purchase from are just regular guys selling dad’s guns? Or, are they dealers setting up regularly at gun shows? The regular guys skirt regulations.
You are smarter than that.
The ones I’ve been to are mostly licensed FFLs, with a handful of smaller guys. Same as buying from a store. You would do a background check. Now CO has a 3 day waiting period apparently.

I’ve never been to a gun show like you describe, but I’m sure they exist.
 
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The ones I’ve been to are mostly licensed FFLs, with a handful of smaller guys. Same as buying from a store. You would do a background check. Now CO has a 3 day waiting period apparently.

I’ve never been to a gun show like you describe, but I’m sure they exist.
I'm sure they don't exist, he just makes shit up or believes whatever Morning Joe force feeds him.
 
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What's wrong with making every sale of a gun subject to registration and tax just like we do with cars?
 
1. I pay sales tax on gun purchases.
2. I don't believe gun registration is totally legal in the U.S.A.
SMFH. Perhaps you pay sales tax but not everyone does. Registration is absolutely legal - in fact it's common. Just not mandatory for all gun sales like it is for auto sales. It makes no sense.
 
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