Vouchers Were Supposed to Save Taxpayer Money. Instead They Blew a Massive Hole in Arizona’s Budget

[seminole97]

Nobody is stopping private schools. We’re just saying private schools either pay for themselves (because, you know, they’re private) or they operate under the same guidelines as public schools. Otherwise it is crazy to give them public money.

Can you address my question?

Would you agree it's preferable to let consumers spend food stamps instead of having the government run grocery stores?

Why is it 'crazy' to let these poor people shop for the food themselves, instead of establishing centralized, government run food banks for them to obtain menu items approved by a bureaucracy nominally controlled by voters?

 

[artradley]

Can you address my question?

Would you agree it's preferable to let consumers spend food stamps instead of having the government run grocery stores?

Why is it 'crazy' to let these poor people shop for the food themselves, instead of establishing centralized, government run food banks for them to obtain menu items approved by a bureaucracy nominally controlled by voters?

People are not forced to go to government run schools.

 

[seminole97]

People are not forced to go to government run schools.

Constant evasion.

Maybe answer this:

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

 

[gohawks50]

Constant evasion.

Maybe answer this:

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

Are food stamps given to everyone now.?

 

[RileyHawk]

Constant evasion.

Maybe answer this:

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

The only way your analogy makes sense is if there is free groceries at a bunch of stores for people on food stamps but they want to go to different stores. You are advocating for giving a few of them money to go to those stores, if the stores will let them in. And giving all the people already shopping at those stores money to shop there.

You are really bad at analogies.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

The only way your analogy makes sense is if there is free groceries at a bunch of stores for people on food stamps but they want to go to different stores. You are advocating for giving a few of them money to go to those stores, if the stores will let them in. And giving all the people already shopping at those stores money to shop there.

You are really bad at analogies.

And he doesn’t even know it.

 

[joelbc1]

In just the past two years, nearly a dozen states have enacted sweeping voucher programs similar to Arizona’s Empowerment Scholarship Account system, with many using it as a model.

Arizona initially complicated their educational budgeting process a couple of decades ago by exempting retirees living in Sun City from any and all school levies. Those old folks are a pretty powerful lobby in Az politics…and they VOTE in numbers, too.

 

[RileyHawk]

Arizona initially complicated their educational budgeting process a couple of decades ago by exempting retirees living in Sun City from any and all school levies. Those old folks are a pretty powerful lobby in Az politics…and they VOTE in numbers, too.

This was defeated by the Arizona voters in 2018 yet the republican legislature pushed it through a few years later. They don't care about educating the children. They care about subsidizing their supporters - the wealthy and the church attendees.

 

[Joes Place]

The homeschool option is still the worst part of this. So many people with child abuse convictions and under investigation that can get paid to abuse their child. It’s despicable.

#MAGASexEducation

 

[Joes Place]

Nobody is stopping private schools. We’re just saying private schools either pay for themselves (because, you know, they’re private) or they operate under the same guidelines as public schools. Otherwise it is crazy to give them public money.

Indeed; either they take all students, or the ones they won't/cannot take because they are special needs/autistic/etc they can pay a premium to the public schools to take them for them.

1x declined student costs 4x voucher incomes

 

[Tom Paris]

Would there be as much whining about education spending increases if the spending was managed by bureaucracies instead of parents?

Why not privatize the whole shebang, and sell the public schools to the teachers unions to run as they see fit? Is there that little faith that parents will prefer to send their kids to their schools if they have the choice?

You’re ignorant.

 

[Tom Paris]

That misses the point. What if my school is designed for children on the spectrum?
One size doesn't fit all, even if it makes it easier for bureaucrats to manage.



We need more than two. Could be dozens, even hundreds of different to approaches to education to better fit different circumstances and abilities.
Can you imagine there only being two kinds of restaurants?
Would that best meet every need?
It might tickle somebodies heart that everyone had the same options, but what about he people that want different options altogether?

Holy. Christ.

 

[seminole97]

Are food stamps given everyone now.?

You’re evading the question.

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

 

[SansAgain]

Unless you live

You’re evading the question.

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

You can wrap everything up in this post.

 

[seminole97]

You’re ignorant.

You’re unwilling to answer the questions.

Your ignorance is showing. Take a stab at a few of them. What leads you to the conclusion that bureaucratic provision is superior to consumer choice? I mean, aside from the comfort of those working in the bureaucracy.

 

[lucas80]

I’ve said this before, I don’t think Kimmie runs again in 2026. I can see her declaring victory, and then lining her pockets with special interest money, and sitting on the board of some think tank that pushed ESAs around the country. Iowa’s budget will really start to face the crunch in 2 years, and she doesn’t want any part of riding a downward slide for four years as teachers in Osage get laid off just to give kids that go to Dowling a leg up n

 

[RicoSuave102954]

This headline will be cast again in two years for Mississippi North.

More lies from Mitch Liar Liar

 

[SansAgain]

You’re unwilling to answer the questions.

Your ignorance is showing. Take a stab at a few of them. What leads you to the conclusion that bureaucratic provision is superior to consumer choice? I mean, aside from the comfort of those working in the bureaucracy.

You already won and it feels a bit excessive to pick on Tom. He’s has the woke mind virus and he loves children in the worst way.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

If someone wants to try privatization, go for it. But you have to accept every student. You have to accept special needs students. What I object to is taxpayers subsidizing two different systems of education.

It's definitely not two different systems. It's called school choice, I thought you Libs were big on personal choice?

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Because unless private schools accept all students, you are merely funneling money away from public education and making life more precarious for all students with special needs and all poor families.

You clearly haven’t spent five minutes thinking about any of this.

More liberal gibberish. You have zero concern about anyone's quality of education or else you would acknowledge the benefits of school choice. The public school system is failing.

Oh btw only the poor has qualified for the state money to attend a private school these last few years, if anything the program has helped the poor families.

 

[dgordo]

You’re evading the question.

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

Isn’t because the big food companies have good lobbyists and they want people on government assistance to eat at McDonalds?

 

[MitchLL]

The cost of Arizona's eight-month-old universal school voucher program is projected to hit $900 million over the next year, far beyond the money budgeted for the program just three weeks ago, according to a report by the Arizona Department of Education.

And none of it is accountable. This covers an estimated 100,000 students out of over 1.1 million public school students. Less than 10% and the vast majority were already attending private schools. This is $900M subsidy to well off families.

Those numbers are eerily similar, or will be, to those here in Mississippi North.
Funding a program that benefits <10% of school age children just to accommodate political allies.

Disgusting.

 

[artradley]

You’re evading the question.

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

Because only a minority of people need food stamps and this system is more efficient.

Now, even if you believe you’ve made a compelling argument, it only serves to convince you that we should eliminate public education. Is that your proposal?

And, fwiw, if 90% of all grocery stores required you to endure religious proselytizing before you receive your food, there would be an argument to be made for government run groceries.

 

[gohawks50]

You’re evading the question.

Why have food stamps instead of government run food distribution?

It's a false equivalency. Here are just a few stark differences:

• Vouchers in Iowa starting in 25 will have no income guidelines, food stamps do.
• Public education is only available to K-12 students, food stamps are available to all ages if income guidelines are met.
• Private schools can choose whether or not to accept a student's voucher, if a business accepts food stamps they can't pick and choose who can use them at their stores.
• Stores have to meet a certain criteria to accept food stamps, I'm not aware of any limitations on which private schools in Iowa can receive vouchers.

 

[Tom Paris]

You’re unwilling to answer the questions.

Your ignorance is showing. Take a stab at a few of them. What leads you to the conclusion that bureaucratic provision is superior to consumer choice? I mean, aside from the comfort of those working in the bureaucracy.

I know FAR more about the education system than you do. Your ignorance is why you ask these stupid questions. These have been discussed at great length in numerous other threads that you could simply look up.

 

[hexumhawk]

Public schools have wasted the lions share of the money for decades with no changes. Bloated administration costs everywhere. I have zero empathy for the public school people screaming now about losing students to private schools. Stop with the lecture about money spent as well as you cosign more billions to Ukraine. Get out your sharpie and sign the missiles!

 

[gohawks50]

Public schools have wasted the lions share of the money for decades with no changes. Bloated administration costs everywhere. I have zero empathy for the public school people screaming now about losing students to private schools. Stop with the lecture about money spent as well as you cosign more billions to Ukraine. Get out your sharpie and sign the missiles!

If you are concerned about wasted money maybe you should read the article in the OP about how the voucher system in Arizona has cost the state so much that they are now facing hundreds of millions in budget cuts to critical state programs and projects.

​

 

[hexumhawk]

If you are concerned about wasted money maybe you should read the article in the OP about how the voucher system in Arizona has cost the state so much that they are now facing hundreds of millions in budget cuts to critical state programs and projects.

​

I would rather spend on private schools being an option even if it does cost extra money. Well spent in my eyes.

 

[sober_teacher]

@seminole97 , you keep trying to make economic analogies, when it’s not remotely applicable, unless you disagree with the premise that a well—educated public is essential to a functioning democracy.

You made the choice to go private, good for you. So did my parents for me and my sister.

What most of us have objected to regarding vouchers is that it’s ultimately dispensing public funds to private entities who don’t have to follow the same rules as their public counterparts.

 

[RileyHawk]

Public schools have wasted the lions share of the money for decades with no changes. Bloated administration costs everywhere. I have zero empathy for the public school people screaming now about losing students to private schools. Stop with the lecture about money spent as well as you cosign more billions to Ukraine. Get out your sharpie and sign the missiles!

Except they are losing very few students. The vast majority of those receiving vouchers have never attended public school.

Just another subject you are completely ignorant about.

 

[RileyHawk]

I would rather spend on private schools being an option even if it does cost extra money. Well spent in my eyes.

Of course - subsidize the wealthy and the church. **** the children and their educations.

You're a moron.

 

[HawkMachine]

The public school system is failing.

I'd say PARENTS or lack of are failing.

 

[gohawks50]

I would rather spend on private schools being an option even if it does cost extra money. Well spent in my eyes.

Do you have any data to back up your claim that the state funding private schools is well spent money or is it just a feeling you have?

 

[sober_teacher]

I'd say PARENTS or lack of are failing.

There’s always ways to improve public schooling, but the first and best indicator is how involved parents are imo.

 

[hexumhawk]

Do you have any data to back up your claim that the state funding private schools is well spent money or is it just a feeling you have?

No, I'm just fine with putting money into people having an option for what school to attend. With the amount of money that the US/States spend of things that are frivolous, or at best unneeded, I am fine with it.

 

[RileyHawk]

No, I'm just fine with putting money into people having an option for what school to attend. With the amount of money that the US/States spend of things that are frivolous, or at best unneeded, I am fine with it.

Except "people" don't have the option, the school/church makes the choice.

Unsurprised you want to supplement the few well to do at the expense of the vast majority.

 

[sober_teacher]

No, I'm just fine with putting money into people having an option for what school to attend. With the amount of money that the US/States spend of things that are frivolous, or at best unneeded, I am fine with it.

This isn’t the part that we have an issue with.

 

[gohawks50]

No, I'm just fine with putting money into people having an option for what school to attend. With the amount of money that the US/States spend of things that are frivolous, or at best unneeded, I am fine with it.

So it "feels" good to you. Always a sound idea to base decisions on feelings rather than facts.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Those numbers are eerily similar, or will be, to those here in Mississippi North.
Funding a program that benefits <10% of school age children just to accommodate political allies.

Disgusting.

It's about providing the best education, politics doesn't enter into it, Mr. Liar Liar.

 

[theiacowtipper]

It's about providing the best education, politics doesn't enter into it, Mr. Liar Liar.

Well there is no data that vouchers improve outcomes.