according to KenPom.
That's right --- we're that bad at defense.
That's right --- we're that bad at defense.
We're currently on pace to have the best offense in college basketball since 2017-2018 Nova
- Thread starter rainydayhawk
- Start date
Crazy that Wisconsin, of all teams, holds the record. They were uber efficient that year.
it's a little tough to compare season to season offense and defense because of significant rule changes over time. There have been several major changes over the last 20 years such as changing length of 3 point arc, changing shot clock, changing emphasis of how they call hand check fouls, changing how they call block/charge, etc. that have resulted in occasional significant changes in relative offensive and defensive efficiencies across the sport.
We're that bad on defense, but also it goes to show just how hard teams have to try against us when they play defense, while also knowing that they'll essentially be given free reign to bomb away from the 3 pt line with little to no pressure.
Also, there's no real consistent common denominator in our losses outside of our poor overall defense and Jordan Bohannon disappearing offensively (save for Ohio State, most recently, which is further proof that Thursday's loss was on Fran).
vs Gonzaga- 13-26 on 3s vs 4-22 on 3s,
at Minnesota- 17 made 3s vs 10 made 3s, shot 44.8% to our 37.2%
vs Indiana- Beat us in basically every offensive category. (26 to 24 FG, 49% to 38%, 8 to 5 in 3 pt FGs, 47% to 21% in 3s, 21 to 16 in FTs)
at Illinois- shot 50%, despite making fewer 3s and FGs overall. Also major disparity in FT shooting......Iowa (3-6) Illinois (14-17)
vs Ohio State- Fairly equal offensively. They made 31 FGs to our 30, and 13 to 11 in FTs for the difference in the game. But also Joe Toussaint played 7 minutes..........minor f***ing oversight on that one, perhaps.
Bohannon:
2 pts, 0-5 3s, 0-0 FTs
7 pts, 1-7 3s, 0-0 FTs
0 pts, 0-8 3s, 0-0 FTs
6 pts, 2-5 3s, 0-0 FTs
18 pts, 4-8 3s, 4-4 FTs***
Also, there's no real consistent common denominator in our losses outside of our poor overall defense and Jordan Bohannon disappearing offensively (save for Ohio State, most recently, which is further proof that Thursday's loss was on Fran).
vs Gonzaga- 13-26 on 3s vs 4-22 on 3s,
at Minnesota- 17 made 3s vs 10 made 3s, shot 44.8% to our 37.2%
vs Indiana- Beat us in basically every offensive category. (26 to 24 FG, 49% to 38%, 8 to 5 in 3 pt FGs, 47% to 21% in 3s, 21 to 16 in FTs)
at Illinois- shot 50%, despite making fewer 3s and FGs overall. Also major disparity in FT shooting......Iowa (3-6) Illinois (14-17)
vs Ohio State- Fairly equal offensively. They made 31 FGs to our 30, and 13 to 11 in FTs for the difference in the game. But also Joe Toussaint played 7 minutes..........minor f***ing oversight on that one, perhaps.
Bohannon:
2 pts, 0-5 3s, 0-0 FTs
7 pts, 1-7 3s, 0-0 FTs
0 pts, 0-8 3s, 0-0 FTs
6 pts, 2-5 3s, 0-0 FTs
18 pts, 4-8 3s, 4-4 FTs***
List of teams who had top 10 offenses and defense outside top 99 from 2012-2019, 4 seeds or better bolded:
Wichita St 2018 (4th and 111th) 4 seed - R64
Nevada 2018 (7th and 108th) 7 seed - Sweet 16
TCU 2018 (9th and 100th) 6 seed - R64
Oklahoma St 2017 (1st and 155th) 10 seed, R64
Wake Forest 2017 (7th and 176th) 11 seed (lost play in game)
Marquette 2017 (8th and 165th) 10 seed R64
Notre Dame 2016 (9th and 158th) 6 seed Elite 8
Indiana 2015 (8th and 200th) 10 seed R64
Davidson 2015 (9th and 176th) 10 seed R64
BYU 2015 (10th and 139th) 11 seed lost play in
Creighton 2014 (2nd and 124th) 3 seed R32
Colorado st 2013 (6th and 104th) 8 seed R32
Iowa st 2013 (8th and 123rd) 10 seed R32
NC St 2013 (10th and 122nd) 8 seed R64
Mizzou 2012 (1st and 111th) 2 seed R64
Creighton 2012 (5th and 166th) 8 seed R32
Belmont 2012 (9th and 121st) 14 seed R64
Purdue 2012 (10th and 114th) 10 seed R32
18 teams combined NCAA record = 10-18
Wichita St 2018 (4th and 111th) 4 seed - R64
Nevada 2018 (7th and 108th) 7 seed - Sweet 16
TCU 2018 (9th and 100th) 6 seed - R64
Oklahoma St 2017 (1st and 155th) 10 seed, R64
Wake Forest 2017 (7th and 176th) 11 seed (lost play in game)
Marquette 2017 (8th and 165th) 10 seed R64
Notre Dame 2016 (9th and 158th) 6 seed Elite 8
Indiana 2015 (8th and 200th) 10 seed R64
Davidson 2015 (9th and 176th) 10 seed R64
BYU 2015 (10th and 139th) 11 seed lost play in
Creighton 2014 (2nd and 124th) 3 seed R32
Colorado st 2013 (6th and 104th) 8 seed R32
Iowa st 2013 (8th and 123rd) 10 seed R32
NC St 2013 (10th and 122nd) 8 seed R64
Mizzou 2012 (1st and 111th) 2 seed R64
Creighton 2012 (5th and 166th) 8 seed R32
Belmont 2012 (9th and 121st) 14 seed R64
Purdue 2012 (10th and 114th) 10 seed R32
18 teams combined NCAA record = 10-18
My only minor issue with that is you are looking at end of season rankings for defense which includes the early upset losses in the tourney some of those teams had that dropped their rank.
For example in 2013, Michigan entered the NCAA tourney ranked #2 in offense and #66 in defense on KenPom but would go on to end the season ranked #1 in offense and #37 in defense. IIRC the defense rank got to about #30 before the title game loss.
The data on KenPom is always the end of season after tournament rankings, but you can download the data from the pre NCAA tournament rankings.
It’s not any better for teams with top 10 defenses and offenses outside the top 100. We all know there are some roster limitations, especially among the starters. It’s up to the coach to scheme around those limitations to put the team in the best position to go deep into the tourney.
Playing certain combinations of players together, Jordan and Connor for example, is not a long term recipe for success. For every Jordan or Connor type player on the floor, you need a Joe T Perkins or Ulis for balance.
Maybe I’m dead wrong but trying to outscore opponents with little defensive effort has never been a recipe for success(maybe Loyola Marymount back in the day but that was an entirely different thing)
Playing certain combinations of players together, Jordan and Connor for example, is not a long term recipe for success. For every Jordan or Connor type player on the floor, you need a Joe T Perkins or Ulis for balance.
Maybe I’m dead wrong but trying to outscore opponents with little defensive effort has never been a recipe for success(maybe Loyola Marymount back in the day but that was an entirely different thing)
The numbers, along with any sense of the game, tell you that a team that all O and no D isn't going to get far in the tourney.
I'll admit that I'm pro offense. I much prefer watching the pace pushed. I love to see final scores in the 80s and despise seeing them in the 50s.
To win when it matters most(the NCAA tourney) there has to be at least some attention to the D side of the equation. I'm not going to spend the time to do the research, but I would be surprised if any teams with D efficiency rankings more than 100 have ever made the final four. And it could be closer to teams with D efficiency ranking more than 70 not making it.
My take from before last season has been that Iowa needed to get into the 60s for D efficiency ranking, while maintaining top 5 offensive efficiency, to make any sort of tourney run. I still think that's the case.
The limitations in athletic ability among the players getting heavy minutes prevent them from being good(meaning top 30 D efficiency ranking). But "meh" was within their reach. Instead, we continue to see the same defensive issues that we've always seen. Some of which could have been worked on and improved with focus and effort.
I'll admit that I'm pro offense. I much prefer watching the pace pushed. I love to see final scores in the 80s and despise seeing them in the 50s.
To win when it matters most(the NCAA tourney) there has to be at least some attention to the D side of the equation. I'm not going to spend the time to do the research, but I would be surprised if any teams with D efficiency rankings more than 100 have ever made the final four. And it could be closer to teams with D efficiency ranking more than 70 not making it.
My take from before last season has been that Iowa needed to get into the 60s for D efficiency ranking, while maintaining top 5 offensive efficiency, to make any sort of tourney run. I still think that's the case.
The limitations in athletic ability among the players getting heavy minutes prevent them from being good(meaning top 30 D efficiency ranking). But "meh" was within their reach. Instead, we continue to see the same defensive issues that we've always seen. Some of which could have been worked on and improved with focus and effort.
on quick glance VCU was #60 on offense and #126 on defense entering the tourney when they made the Final Four
That's interesting. Sounds like the "puncher's chance" phenomenon. Maybe George Mason would be one of the others in that category. A list of power conference teams would be more telling.
The majority of FF teams are good at both ends. There’s really no reason to over analyze it too much. At this point, without improvement on the defensive end, Iowa will have a tough task making it to the 2nd weekend.
a fairer statement would be that the majority of very good teams are good on both ends. There just aren’t many good teams that are great on one end and terrible on the other. It is such a small group that you can’t really make grand proclamations about them. I think overall efficiency is the best predictor of advancing in the tourney no matter how you get to it.
Agree and I did think about that, but I'm not sure how to download the pre tournament rankings? Do i need the membership?
Yep. I also remember when we were expected to make the final four this year with a NPOTY candidate.
yes need the membership and they are just spreadsheets you have to manually comb through
It’s not just Jbo and CMac, Garza isn’t great on defense, so that leaves Weezy and CJF who are fair defensively but both of them can be taken off the dribble too, but I prefer that to leaving open 3’s hoping for a miss. The best defensive players for Iowa come off the bench which is ok if they do get off the bench. Hopefully we see that going forward. So I’m not misconstrued, I’m more than happy to live with Luka’s deficiencies on the defensive side with the scoring he gives every single game without fail
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