What are your reasons for being against Trump's wall? Under what circumstances would you support it?

[Barn Mate]

Looking for reasons beyond simply "not letting Trump get his own way."

I'm skeptical because I've not learned of any good feasibility analysis pertaining to how "the wall" might be implemented. It seems some robust analysis ought to be floating around publicly before funding for this sort of project is granted.

How effective would it actually be in deterring illegals? (we ought to be able to generate some number here, at least a reasonable target) How much bang for the buck there?

How much is it actually going to cost to construct?

How much annually to monitor?

What are the less expensive options, and how do they compare?

I suppose, depending on what the analysis says, I could find myself supporting the wall. In a perfect world -- well, not, perfect perfect -- we'd be able to make certain those that enter our country do so via legal channels. Right?

Under what circumstances would you support the wall?

 

[Moral]

If they let me paint morals on it I would support it.

 

[noleclone2]

I would support it if Mexico paid for it.

 

[longliveCS40]

It won't work...

 

[FlickShagwell]

Vast majority of illegal immigrants enter legally and simply don’t leave. Most come on planes.

It’s expensive and there are countless better ways the money could be spent.

It will be ugly.

We’re already apprehending terrorists by the thousands without it, if we’re to believe Trump. It’s unnecessary.

 

[Rudolph]

If OiT sponsors my making a documentary of his life I will support Trump’s wall.

 

[Legend12]

Vast majority of illegal immigrants enter legally and simply don’t leave. Most come on planes.

It’s expensive and there are countless better ways the money could be spent.

It will be ugly.

We’re already apprehending terrorists by the thousands without it, if we’re to believe Trump. It’s unnecessary.

Link?

 

[FlickShagwell]

Link?

Looks like it’s about 40%, per Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. So not most. My bad.

 

[Legend12]

Looks like it’s about 40%, per Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. So not most. My bad.

Also....how does anyone truly have any idea how many illegals are in the country? It's like they are all standing up to be counted.

 

[BelemNole]

Link?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

 

[Legend12]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

Did you even read what you linked?

 

[mnole03]

I would support it if Mexico paid for it.

Like we were promised.

 

[Barn Mate]

It won't work...

That response was a bit lazy.

I posted the topic thinking that most of the responses would be a bit lazy. This has been a big knee jerk topic on both sides.

Of course, I devised questions I don't have good answers to, either. So not too much finger pointing from me.

 

[BelemNole]

Did you even read what you linked?

I did. Did you?

 

[luvmyhawks]

I can think of about 5 billion reasons.

 

[Huey Grey]

That response was a bit lazy.

I posted the topic thinking that most of the responses would be a bit lazy. This has been a big knee jerk topic on both sides.

Of course, I devised questions I don't have good answers to, either. So not too much finger pointing from me.

Why is his response lazy? The wall won't work. Trump promises that his wall will stop 99% of illegal entrance into the United States. There is no evidence to support this claim.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

It's idiotic.

How's that for lazy?

 

[gohawks50]

The wall only addresses a symptom of the problem. The immigrants come here for jobs and American employers hire them at lower wages.

The better solution to deter illegal immigration is stricter penalties and consequences for those who hire undocumented workers. This fix would impact undocumented workers coming in from all of our borders not just the southern one.

 

[SeaPA]

I am against it for many reasons. Among them:
* I think immigration - both legal and illegal - is far down the list of our nation’s problems. I would rather the money be used on other issues.
* I do not think that it would work particularly well for various reasons others have stated.
* My understanding is that most of the land along the border is privately owned, so it could only be built by the government seizing that property through eminent domain proceedings. I detest that process, as should every single person who owns property.

 

[naturalmwa]

Looks like it’s about 40%, per Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. So not most. My bad.

No you were right. The number of new illegals are 66% by plane. The 40% number is for all time.

 

[mthawkeyes]

Looks like it’s about 40%, per Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush. So not most. My bad.

But even of those that don't come on planes, most enter legally and simply overstay their work visas.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Costs
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-wall-wont-work
Taking private citizens land for the wall
https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/eminent-domain-trump-border-wall-rio-grande/638916001/
Creates a no-man's land
https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/eminent-domain-trump-border-wall-rio-grande/638916001/
Destroys wild life habitat
https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17152644/trump-border-wall-texas-environment-refuge-butterflies

and there is also the fact that trump will use his cronies to build it

I could go on and on

 

[Legend12]

I did. Did you?

Then you know it doesn’t support (or refute) the topic at hand, so why link it?

 

[obfuscating]

I would support it if Mexico paid for it.

So you would support taking 5 billion out of the "aid" fund that goes to Mexico.

 

[Imtotallynottribe]

So you would support taking 5 billion out of the "aid" fund that goes to Mexico.

Since we only provide $289 million from every federal agency most of which is anti-drug related what you suggest is literally impossible.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/MEX

Most people have zero idea how much money ole Two Scoops Drumph is actually talking about wasting on the this useless boondoggle just to satisfy a BS promise he made up to please the racists in our country.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Then you know it doesn’t support (or refute) the topic at hand, so why link it?

 

[tumorboy]

Any estimates on how long it would take to complete? Decades would seem like the time frame.
Anyway with all that coast line the US and Mexico has. I'm betting it just moves the problem to cheap boats.

 

[NDallasRuss]

The better solution to deter illegal immigration is stricter penalties and consequences for those who hire undocumented workers.

I've always thought this was the easiest, most effective fix. If you make the penalties for hiring illegals so severe that they outweigh the financial benefits, then the flow of illegal immigrants into the US (except for the one who are here for more nefarious purposes) will stop almost immediately.

Unfortunately, that means that the US gov't would have to be willing to penalize business owners, rather than only those on the lowest rung of the economic ladder, and there's zero chance that will happen.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Any estimates on how long it would take to complete? Decades would seem like the time frame.
Anyway with all that coast line the US and Mexico has. I'm betting it just moves the problem to cheap boats.

There would be a lot of cheap workarounds for those still wanting to get into the US - you could float a boat around the wall (unless the plan is to extend the wall all the way out to international waters), you could dig a hole under the wall, you could use a ladder to climb over the wall. You could make a hole in the wall and climb through, etc. It'd be impossible to effectively monitor 2k miles of border wall -just like it's impossible to monitor 2k miles of open land. Sure it might make it a little more difficult, but it's not going to stop people from coming over if they want to.

Alternatively, a large moat running the length of the border with sharks armed with lasers on their heads would be WAY more effective of a deterrent.

 

[Legend12]

I take it you didn’t read the article, either.

 

[NoleATL]

It won't work and will be a huge waste of money. If you want to keep folks from immigrating illegally, the employers that are hiring them need to face huge fines. Of course, this will never happen. Even the Trump Crime Family hires "illegals".

 

[tumorboy]

There would be a lot of cheap workarounds for those still wanting to get into the US - you could float a boat around the wall (unless the plan is to extend the wall all the way out to international waters), you could dig a hole under the wall, you could use a ladder to climb over the wall. You could make a hole in the wall and climb through, etc. It'd be impossible to effectively monitor 2k miles of border wall -just like it's impossible to monitor 2k miles of open land. Sure it might make it a little more difficult, but it's not going to stop people from coming over if they want to.

Alternatively, a large moat running the length of the border with sharks armed with lasers on their heads would be WAY more effective of a deterrent.

No the moat needs to be a river of hot liquid magma.

 

[NoleATL]

No the moat needs to be a river of hot liquid magma.

And, then there are all those thousands of miles of coastline. When people need to feed their families, they will go to extreme measures.

 

[JWolf74]

No the moat needs to be a river of hot liquid magma.

At minimum can we get some frickin' sharks with lasers on their heads?

 

[IACub]

How about this - Trump isn't interested in immigration reform. He's too dumb to understand the complexities of it and he doesn't really care. All he's doing is using the wall as a political ploy to whip his base into a lather. The wall is nothing more than a talking point, that's it.

 

[cigaretteman]

It's prohibitively expensive,utterly ineffective, and will do great ecological and cultural damage to the area, as well as leaving many American property owners on the wrong side of the fence or having had their property confiscated through eminent domain for no good reason, not to mention the damage it will do to the Rio Grande valley and its environment. I support increased manpower along the border and enhanced technology. I will never support a "wall" along the length of the border.

 

[Rudolph]

All this wall talk is truly fvcking amazing.

 

[Rudolph]

How about this - Trump isn't interested in immigration reform. He's too dumb to understand the complexities of it and he doesn't really care. All he's doing is using the wall as a political ploy to whip his base into a lather. The wall is nothing more than a talking point, that's it.

And a construction project to enrich some folks and/or pay down some personal debt. It’s always that with Trump (and the Kushners).

 

[sober_teacher]

The ultimate solution would be to help the Central American countries they come from improve their living/working conditions so that people weren’t leaving their homelands in hopes of better lives or raising their children in peace.

Every time I see this referred to as an invasion I throw up a little in my mouth.

 

[MitchLL]

I would support it if Mexico paid for it.

This alone, is why. Campaign promise and all. Since that is what the GOP is using to justify so many of Trump's actions.