What Do You Think of Ted Cruz's 10% Flat Tax?

[NoleSoup4U]

There's the problem...people have somehow latched onto the idea that the top 5% in the richest country on Earth don't have enough money.

A millions dollars might be the end-all-be-all in whatever backwater town you live in, but after you factor in taxes, where you live, and a family, that money dries up pretty quick.

I'm not talking about the people making 10's of millions of dollars like you seem to be.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

They net 750k and you think that's middle class?

You aren't netting 750k. And yeah, taking home 750k is middle class.

 

[ANYCHawk]

You aren't netting 750k. And yeah, taking home 750k is middle class.

I got some really bad news for you....

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I got some really bad news for you....

The fact that you don't understand anything, save for raw numbers without meaning, isn't bad news for me.

The rich people in this world are people that will never have to work if they don't want to. The upper echelon of that are people who own most of the wealth in this world.

The people you think are "rich" are people that have to go to work every day, maybe they own a small business, and work hard to create jobs for people further down the economic totem pole. You think they're rich because they make more than you. You're looking at it from a relative point of view. Take yourself out of the equation and take another look.

 

[moral_victory]

You aren't netting 750k. And yeah, taking home 750k is middle class.

What impoverished corner of the internet did you crawl out of? My human wallet boy carries 5 times that amount behind me at all times just in case I want to go out to eat.

 

[ANYCHawk]

The fact that you don't understand anything, save for raw numbers without meaning, isn't bad news for me.

The rich people in this world are people that will never have to work if they don't want to. The upper echelon of that are people who own most of the wealth in this world.

The people you think are "rich" are people that have to go to work every day, maybe they own a small business, and work hard to create jobs for people further down the economic totem pole. You think they're rich because they make more than you. You're looking at it from a relative point of view. Take yourself out of the equation and take another look.

No the people I know that a rich just went to Venice, California and Georgia in a month, are getting ready to move to england for six months, own three, personel residences, have bought me two new cars in the last two years and don't have to worry about money for their rest of their lives. Oh and they made it so I don't have to worry about my retirement or any financial issues that may crop up (and they are some of the poorer rich people I know). But, go on continue with your narrative.

But, they and I know in no way shape or form is $750,000 a year middle class.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No the people I know that a rich just went to Venice, California and Georgia in a month, are getting ready to move to england for six months, own three residence, have bought me two new cars in the last two years and don't have to worry about money for their rest of their lives. Oh and they made it so I don't have to worry about my retirement or any financial issues that may crop up (and they are some of the poorer rich people I know). But, go on continue with your narrative.

But, they and I know in no way shape or form is $750,000 a year middle class.

I'm sure they know, even if you don't. Look, they're in the upper part of middle class, but they are still middle class from what you've told me. However, there are some things that could have made them money, live being good investors.

 

[ANYCHawk]

I'm sure they know, even if you don't. Look, they're in the upper part of middle class, but they are still middle class from what you've told me. However, there are some things that could have made them money, live being good investors.

You are so delusional is stupid. Ignore.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You are so delusional is stupid. Ignore.

Why? Because I asked if they made a lot of money through investments? You might as well put me on ignore, because you don't have any answers to the questions I'm asking, which just tells me that you really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[gusto79]

You aren't netting 750k. And yeah, taking home 750k is middle class.

What's your definition of middle class? And does everybody get to make up their own definition? Making a million/year probably puts you in the top 99.5 percentile of income.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

What's your definition of middle class? And does everybody get to make up their own definition? Making a million/year probably puts you in the top 99.5 percentile of income.

I really rather doubt it puts you up that high. As for your question, it's hard to say what is middle class, because we're talking about money and not purchasing power. Rich to me is being able to never have to work in your life, if you don't want to. It isn't retiring at 60 and living comfortably.

Edit: I should clarify my rich comment by saying, "never have to work in your life, and being able to live a decadent lifestyle."

 

[artradley]

You aren't netting 750k. And yeah, taking home 750k is middle class.

Lol! So long as you define "middle" as 99% of the country, net income of 750k is middle class.

 

[gusto79]

I really rather doubt it puts you up that high. As for your question, it's hard to say what is middle class, because we're talking about money and not purchasing power. Rich to me is being able to never have to work in your life, if you don't want to. It isn't retiring at 60 and living comfortably.

Edit: I should clarify my rich comment by saying, "never have to work in your life, and being able to live a decadent lifestyle."

Here's a link to a WSJ calculator. $1,000,000/year is 99.5%.

If you want to say $1,000,000/year isn't rich that's fine. But it doesn't mean it's middle class. That's just stupid.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Lol! So long as you define "middle" as 99% of the country, net income of 750k is middle class.

You guys are nuts if you think that making $750,000 puts you into the top 1%. Do you understand how expensive the real estate is in a number of area's of this country? Many of them would be empty.

Let's put it this way. Someone gives you $750k at age 18, and you live in New York City. How long do you think that is going to last you?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Here's a link to a WSJ calculator. $1,000,000/year is 99.5%.

If you want to say $1,000,000/year isn't rich that's fine. But it doesn't mean it's middle class. That's just stupid.

If it isn't rich and it isn't middle class, then what is it?

BTW, that link says that the top 1% is over 500k. If that's true, then our economy is far worse off then I thought. $500k in NYC wouldn't get you very far at all after you account for all the taxes.

 

[gusto79]

If it isn't rich and it isn't middle class, then what is it?

BTW, that link says that the top 1% is over 500k. If that's true, then our economy is far worse off then I thought. $500k in NYC wouldn't get you very far at all after you account for all the taxes.

Probably rich. I was just giving you some leeway if you wanted to claim it wasn't. I would consider a million/year income rich, but not filthy rich.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Probably rich. I was just giving you some leeway if you wanted to claim it wasn't. I would consider a million/year income rich, but not filthy rich.

I would consider it upper middle class, especially depending on where you were living. That's the problem with looking at just a number without any other references to it.

If I were single, and living in BFE Iowa or Florida, then I might say you had a point.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I think another place that we're getting crossed up is that I'm not talking about making a consistent million a year for 40-50 years. If you retire, and you have 15-20 million in the bank, then yeah, you could consider yourself rich. You could do basically whatever you wanted the rest of your life and never have to worry about anything.

 

[artradley]

You guys are nuts if you think that making $750,000 puts you into the top 1%. Do you understand how expensive the real estate is in a number of area's of this country? Many of them would be empty.

Let's put it this way. Someone gives you $750k at age 18, and you live in New York City. How long do you think that is going to last you?

You realize this isn't a matter of opinion, right? A gross income of $750k is well into the top 1%. Ergo, you consider almost every single American to be middle class.

 

[gusto79]

You realize this isn't a matter of opinion, right? A gross income of $750k is well into the top 1%. Ergo, you consider almost every single American to be middle class.

Not necessarily. Maybe he thinks anything under $250,000/yr is poverty level.

 

[artradley]

Not necessarily. Maybe he thinks anything under $250,000/yr is poverty level.

I considered that, but that would mean he struggles with the meaning of the word "middle."

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You realize this isn't a matter of opinion, right? A gross income of $750k is well into the top 1%. Ergo, you consider almost every single American to be middle class.

First off, we're talking about being "rich", not about where you fall in some calculator on a website. I'd like to know what all that gross money entails. I didn't see anything on the site, do you know where I could find it? I'm always leery of statistical analysis that don't explain how they came to their numbers, essentially because statistics are so easily manipulated.

Saying all that, do you really think that $507k is being rich? That's a take home pay of $289000 in Florida, which doesn't have a state tax on top of it. Living in Sarasota, a nice home, in a good area, is going to cost you quite a bit of money. If you're married and have kids, that's more of a strain on that $507k. And while Sarasota isn't the cheapest place to live, it not nearly the most expensive. It'll be much tougher in other places, like the keys down here.

If that site is true, than the wealth gap is way worse than I thought.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I considered that, but that would mean he struggles with the meaning of the word "middle."

Do you guys think "middle class" encompasses a range of $50k or something? I would put $250k at middle class as well. You both still aren't seeing the bigger picture though, which is money vs. wealth and purchasing power.

 

[gusto79]

Do you guys think "middle class" encompasses a range of $50k or something? I would put $250k at middle class as well. You both still aren't seeing the bigger picture though, which is money vs. wealth and purchasing power.

No, I see it. But it's ridiculous to claim making a million/yr is middle class. Sure, if somebody makes a million in one year but doesn't have anywhere near that the rest of his life that's different.

 

[artradley]

Do you guys think "middle class" encompasses a range of $50k or something? I would put $250k at middle class as well. You both still aren't seeing the bigger picture though, which is money vs. wealth and purchasing power.

You said 750k is middle class. From this post I can extrapolate, then, that you consider middle class to be between $500k to $750k annual income. Take home.

It's difficult to go further with the conversation when you are so far removed from reality.

 

[joelbc1]

With a consumption tax, everybody would pay every time they buy something at a store. As an added benefit, foreign tourists and "guests" would contribute to our tax revenues as well.

Only IF the US makes their tax laws different than other countries that use a VAT system. In the EU a "non-resident" can reclaim taxes made on major (euro amount) purchases by filling out a form(s) and providing receipts. Occassionally a "cash" refund is made, some stores "deduct" the tax from purchase and you can always fill out the appropriate forms, drop them off in an appropriately marked box and have your refund processed to you directly or to your credit card of choice. It takes some time, but it does work.
I would think that if the US went to a VAT system, their would be reciprocity agreements with most other nations.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No, I see it. But it's ridiculous to claim making a million/yr is middle class. Sure, if somebody makes a million in one year but doesn't have anywhere near that the rest of his life that's different.

Again, I'm not talking about making a million dollars a year consistently over the next 40 years. That's pretty unreasonable to expect, and if you're actually making that, chances are you were already rich to begin with.

Again, it's just unreasonable to expect the economy to be that consistent with all the bubbles and all the heathens in D.C. selling us out to their corporate donators.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You said 750k is middle class. From this post I can extrapolate, then, that you consider middle class to be between $500k to $750k annual income. Take home.

It's difficult to go further with the conversation when you are so far removed from reality.

Who's reality? Yours? You assume a lot in this conversation of ours.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Joel, you realize that these people aren't paying taxes right now, correct?

 

[joelbc1]

With a consumption tax, everybody would pay every time they buy something at a store. As an added benefit, foreign tourists and "guests" would contribute to our tax revenues as well.

Only IF the US makes their tax laws different than other countries that use a VAT system. In the EU a "non-resident" can reclaim taxes made on major (euro amount) purchases by filling out a form(s) and providing receipts. Occassionally a "cash" refund is made, some stores "deduct" the tax from purchase and you can always fill out the appropriate forms, drop them off in an appropriately marked box and have your refund processed to you directly or to your credit card of choice. It takes some time, but it does work.
I would think that if the US went to a VAT system, their would be reciprocity e

Joel, you realize that these people aren't paying taxes right now, correct?

Who isn't paying taxes? Drug dealers, prosties or foreigners?
Foreigners have no responsibility to pay US income tax on money they earn unless it is in the US. A VAT tax is a money grab, at best. It also works fairly well in Europe because of how things are priced and merchandised. In the US you would have major league sticker shock when you add 15-25% to the price of goods.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Who isn't paying taxes?

Major corporations.

 

[joelbc1]

Major corporations.

That is another reason why the tax code needs to be revisited. The sole purpose of "corporations" is to reduce/dodge tax responsibilities.
We have allowed corporation way too much power. We need Teddy Roosevelt to come back and gut the greedy bastards again.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

That is another reason why the tax code needs to be revisited. The sole purpose of "corporations" is to reduce/dodge tax responsibilities.
We have allowed corporation way too much power. We need Teddy Roosevelt to come back and gut the greedy bastards again.

You realize that there was no income tax when Teddy was president, right? And how do you expect to hold more influence over the tax laws than some corporation that gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to your congressman?

 

[iammrhawkeyes]

I'm for a 10% Fat Tax. Disgusting fatties.

 

[artradley]

Who's reality? Yours? You assume a lot in this conversation of ours.

I've made zero assumptions. I am pointing out the reality of what you are stating. You are now on the record as stating that "middle class" lies entirely within the top 1% of wage earnings.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Not necessarily. Maybe he thinks anything under $250,000/yr is poverty level.

Well, if Republicans keep borrowing and cutting taxes and starting wars, it will be pretty soon.

Of course they have a plan for that. The best way to curb inflation is to cut demand. So keeping wages low, cutting off support programs like welfare, food stamps and Social Security, and implementing tax schemes that shift wealth into fewer and fewer hands should help keep inflation down.

 

[The Tradition]

Well, if Republicans keep borrowing and cutting taxes and starting wars, it will be pretty soon.

Of course they have a plan for that. The best way to curb inflation is to cut demand. So keeping wages low, cutting off support programs like welfare, food stamps and Social Security, and implementing tax schemes that shift wealth into fewer and fewer hands should help keep inflation down.

Thanks for demonstrating that you have absolutely no clue what inflation is.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Thanks for demonstrating that you have absolutely no clue what inflation is.

Feel free to explain it - and to point out where I was wrong.

Have you noticed that I've been calling on you to put up or shut up a lot lately. And you usually shut up, because you can't back up your attacks.

I suspect this will be another example. But go ahead, surprise us.

 

[The Tradition]

Inflation is caused by too much money growth, not a lack of demand. And it certainly has nothing to do with social programs (unless you're printing dollars to pay for those programs).

Please show me where I avoided you elsewhere. Didn't see any gloves being thrown down...