White House to cancel up to $20,000 in debt relief for Pell Grant recipients

MikeyHawk

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This is Republican 101

- They only care about themselves and their money

- If you inconvenience them in any way, you will be met with anger

- If you ask them to sacrifice for another, you will be met with rage

- Most of what they believe is about 180 degrees from actual reality as they are the second most brainwashed people in the history of the planet

- They are easily whipped into a frenzy over complete nonsense. If you doubt this, locate your nearest republican and ask them about caravans, transgenders playing women's sports or this latest grievance, student loan forgiveness. Simply ask their thoughts on the subject, then grab a drink and a bag of chips and watch the show. The tears will flow and they will foam at the mouth for a minimum of 20 minutes and many of them will complain for a lifetime. My holy roller retired cop uncle and his wife, both in their mid-70s, still complain about LBJ and his various legislation to help the poor and minorities. They were both in high school at the time, 1964, and they are still pissed off about medicare, civil rights, etc.

- They are extraordinarily self-congratulatory. Any success was 100% their own doing

- They have no self awareness, at all

- They are completely incapable of putting themselves in other people's shoes

I could go on but you get the idea
Do an analysis of how you feel after a tax cut is passed
 
Feb 9, 2013
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Historically, the average student loan is paid off in 20 years. At 6%, 10k over 20 years $72 per month. How much "suffering" is this really relieving compared to addressing the 100's of other things that are problems right now.
This is the question I have. The vast majority of people getting this $10k could easily pay it off over time. It’s just not that much money spread over that many years.

In this respect I think the NAACP is absolutely right - $10k (or $20k) to people in real trouble barely makes a dent. I think Biden should have figured out a way to wipe out the debt for people who owe tens or hundreds of thousands. Those are the folks who will never get out from underneath the debt and who should’ve been helped first and the most. Maybe the other components of this plan will help them, too, I haven’t looked at it.
 
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Fijimn

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This is the question I have. The vast majority of people getting this $10k could easily pay it off over time. It’s just not that much money spread over that many years.

In this respect I think the NAACP is absolutely right - $10k (or $20k) to people in real trouble barely makes a dent. I think Biden should have figured out a way to wipe out the debt for people who owe tens or hundreds of thousands. Those are the folks who will never get out from underneath the debt and who should’ve been helped first and the most. Maybe the other components of this plan will help them, too, I haven’t looked at it.
That was the consensus on a few of the programs I listened to last night. A more targeted debt relief program and policy discussion regarding tuition reduction/assistance. But that needs to come from Congress.
 
Feb 9, 2013
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That was the consensus on a few of the programs I listened to last night. A more targeted debt relief program and policy discussion regarding tuition reduction/assistance. But that needs to come from Congress.
Yep. I think they really messed this up.
 

Banditking

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I agree; the debt I took on isn't substantial in today's dollars, either.

Problem is, kids want to have "stuff" and live beyond their means while in college; or, attend a college they really cannot afford.

While I don't agree with this policy as it's being implemented, I also disagree that "doing nothing" was the answer here. College costs have WAY outpaced inflation, and my solution was to tie student debt defaults to the colleges' endowments, so they have "skin in the game" in graduating kids who can pay off their loans. And have an incentive to lower the debt those students have to likewise lower their risks.
Why is the choice of a student to live in a luxury apartment, buy a car, go out and party frequently… the responsibility of the college?

if someone is getting no assistance, why can’t they go to community college, work and then go to a four year state u while working, living with roommates, biking, minimizing expenses? Why do we need to subsidize living a middle to middle upper class lifestyle as a student?

in my first year of grad school, I lived in a converted motel room to minimize costs. On internship, I shoveled snow to knock $100 bucks a month off my rent. I worked playing music gigs on the weekends to cover groceries. High college debt is a direct function of not considering costs or cost saving methods. That’s on the student. Yeah, tuition is higher. Fine. Get a scholarship. Get a pell grant. Work. Go to cc.
 
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kc78

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They did that, we should do this, look, they did that, we should do this, oh, they did that, we should do this. Makes it okay
No I'm simply saying they don't care, and Republicans really don't care about using other peoples money to cancel debt. You're just mad that Democrats did it lowering the amount of money you can give to rich people.

Democrats have proven again that they're the only party who gives a damn at all about those in the middle class or below, and Republicans are angry that this handout didn't go to make their wealthy benefactors happy instead.

Sure, you've still got a lot of the middle class brainwashed into not paying attention because of abortion and immigrants, but you better hold that tight. Because the minute they actually start examining policy they'll realize (Just like I did about 5 or 6 years ago) that the current GOP policy is elitist BS.
 

kc78

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Why is the choice of a student to live in a luxury apartment, buy a car, go out and party frequently… the responsibility of the college?

if someone is getting no assistance, why can’t they go to community college, work and then go to a four year state u while working, living with roommates, biking, minimizing expenses? Why do we need to subsidize living a middle to middle upper class lifestyle as a student?
I think your understanding of what "kids" are doing is nonsense. Boomers decided to eat America. The generations afterwards have been trying to fix their mistakes ever since.
 

WadeLookingbill

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You know what the call the interest portion of your debt?,... That's called debt.
Can't argue with that. Of course, not all debt is the same.
The comment was a response to "pay back what you borrow." For most people that I know, this won't even touch the principal owed, so they'll most certainly still be paying back what was borrowed. It's absurd that the government was walking people into 7%+ interest while encouraging "income based repayment" plans and deferments, as this just added to the mountain of debt despite monthly payments being made.
 
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I am more upset with my parents who taught me financial responsibility and to work hard so I can pay off my student loans.
No, don’t be. I paid off $80k in loans but my education has paid back multiples on multiples of that early expense. I’ve given up on any notion of what’s fair when it comes to taxes and government benefits and just prefer to look at what I have and have achieved. If someone else gets something I don’t qualify for, whatever. I feel blessed and fortunate and it’s just not worth getting that worked up about.

My issue with this debt forgiveness is it is way too broad, and doesn’t begin to address the issues that got us here in the first place.

The other factor I wonder about is the test optional trend has brought in even more students from lower income classes. I suspect that they are funding their education through a combination of grants and loans. I wonder if the loan/debt situation will be exponentially worse in 5 years than it is now, with even more students taking more loans to pay for tuition that keeps rising every year.
 

Banditking

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I think your understanding of what "kids" are doing is nonsense. Boomers decided to eat America. The generations afterwards have been trying to fix their mistakes ever since.
I think my understanding is that “kids” are heterogeneous and that the way they make decisions results in more or less debt. A not small proportion of students get through with no debt. More than half get through with less than 20k in debt. So, what’s wrong with the kids that have more?
 
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MikeyHawk

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No I'm simply saying they don't care, and Republicans really don't care about using other peoples money to cancel debt. You're just mad that Democrats did it lowering the amount of money you can give to rich people.

Democrats have proven again that they're the only party who gives a damn at all about those in the middle class or below, and Republicans are angry that this handout didn't go to make their wealthy benefactors happy instead.

Sure, you've still got a lot of the middle class brainwashed into not paying attention because of abortion and immigrants, but you better hold that tight. Because the minute they actually start examining policy they'll realize (Just like I did about 5 or 6 years ago) that the current GOP policy is elitist BS.
I'm mad?
Just pointing out that this is how politics works, look over there to justify why I am making this decision. Amazing the thought process those like yourself do to justify your team
You second paragraph just shows you are a political hack and a sheep. Using emotions to justify a decision your team made, read it on here from both sides all the time.

Just glad we have citizens like yourself examining policy, this seems to be sound policy, wait, this is not policy, it is an executive order.
 

MikeyHawk

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No, don’t be. I paid off $80k in loans but my education has paid back multiples on multiples of that early expense. I’ve given up on any notion of what’s fair when it comes to taxes and government benefits and just prefer to look at what I have and have achieved. If someone else gets something I don’t qualify for, whatever. I feel blessed and fortunate and it’s just not worth getting that worked up about.

My issue with this debt forgiveness is it is way too broad, and doesn’t begin to address the issues that got us here in the first place.

The other factor I wonder about is the test optional trend has brought in even more students from lower income classes. I suspect that they are funding their education through a combination of grants and loans. I wonder if the loan/debt situation will be exponentially worse in 5 years than it is now, with even more students taking more loans to pay for tuition that keeps rising every year.
Great summary. I don't have an issue of fair as well, the tax code is the very definition of "not fair" as are government benefits. Worrying about something someone else gets is not worth it, just the way it is

"I wonder if the loan/debt situation will be exponentially worse in 5 years than it is now, with even more students taking more loans to pay for tuition that keeps rising every year."

Yep
 

HawkeyeShawn

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Nov 9, 2001
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I am. What makes you think we don't love war? War gets high ratings on TV. We spend lots of money on it. If we didn't like it, we wouldn't watch news on it and we certainly wouldn't spend enormous amounts of money on it. I don't spend time and money on things I don't like. Do you?
I guess some of us need to be on the record. I’m for peace, never war.
 

IsaacHarrison

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May 9, 2005
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It’s troubling how often the best responses that the parties give to each other when controversy is most heated, are whataboutisms. It makes them both look bad and the country look doomed.
Agreed. IF you disagree with how this was set up then you must be a millennial hating, PPP getting, right wing nut. You cant disagree with how the program doesn't solve the real problems without people throwing hate at you. This is why there is such divisiveness in our society.
 

Rifler

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Jan 26, 2011
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. It's absurd that the government was walking people into 7%+ interest while encouraging "income based repayment" plans and deferments, as this just added to the mountain of debt despite monthly payments being made.

Can't disagree with that,.. However any college educated borrower who unwittingly participates in an "income based repayment plan" that never reduces principal should be embarrassed...
 

bhawk24bob

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No, don’t be. I paid off $80k in loans but my education has paid back multiples on multiples of that early expense. I’ve given up on any notion of what’s fair when it comes to taxes and government benefits and just prefer to look at what I have and have achieved. If someone else gets something I don’t qualify for, whatever. I feel blessed and fortunate and it’s just not worth getting that worked up about.

My issue with this debt forgiveness is it is way too broad, and doesn’t begin to address the issues that got us here in the first place.

The other factor I wonder about is the test optional trend has brought in even more students from lower income classes. I suspect that they are funding their education through a combination of grants and loans. I wonder if the loan/debt situation will be exponentially worse in 5 years than it is now, with even more students taking more loans to pay for tuition that keeps rising every year.

The situation will be worse and since no root cause(s) was identified or remedied, borrowers better pray that we don't swing back to fiscal conservatism and treat student loan debt like any other creditor would because the collections calls and wage garnishments will not stop via an automatic stay as these are not dischargeable through bankruptcy. A fiscal conservative could make life a living hell for people since nothing was done to address the cost side of the equation.....and for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.
 

kc78

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I think my understanding is that “kids” are heterogeneous and that the way they make decisions results in more or less debt. A not small proportion of students get through with no debt. More than half get through with less than 20k in debt. So, what’s wrong with the kids that have more?
The only ones getting through with no debt are students who live in states where education is a priority and getting educations covered very highly by the state government is possible. For example, Georgia has a Hope Career Grant which allows students going into specific fields to get their college for free as long as they meet a very set of basic requirements. OR these are students who's parents are in a position to shoulder the burden of their schooling. My kids will have very little debt, but I've spent considerable money every month going towards the Pre-Paid college program in Florida. It won't cover everything, but most of it will be covered.

However most states don't have programs that cover schooling, and so unless your student has parents (Like myself) who can shoulder most of, if not all of their cost, then they're going to incur fairly substantial debt.

Now there are definitely other issues we should be examining that are leading to substantial debt and this shouldn't be the "end" of the conversation, but I certainly don't see it as unfair or any worse than any other myriad of programs where government feels it's beneficial to help citizens or businesses get out from under some crushing issue.
 
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srams21

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I'm sure there are multiple projections some where. Assuming you could actually get a starting cost to begin with.
So you really think ~300 billion is going to cost us that much more in taxes? Well over 10k per person?

How much did the first two COVID stimulus bills cost us then?
 

RonaldMexico

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I'm thinking more about the politicians and followers who will rail on this program, but say nothing about the PPP.

So where do you stand on both? You response seems to imply that you are also a hypocrite, just with polar opposite views to the people you are attempting to call out.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

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kc78

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binsfeldcyhawk2

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All government programs cost tax payers. This one isn't any worse than any other one, and considerably less than many.
If it was passed through legislation I'd agree with you...this was done through basically presidential fiat and it's unprecedented. It occupies a category all it's own...
 
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BrunoMars420

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