Some people think he is a NBA 2 and done. Personally, I think its another Cook situation. A kid whose aspirations are way beyond reality.
Who is a the Hawkeyes gonna git ?
- Thread starter IowaNiceHawk
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Because he's good at basketball and wants to play in the nba?
consensus top 75 kid in high school aspires to play in the NBA and takes advantage of existing rules to get feedback from desired employer and invited to tryout by one prospective employer...the nerve of him.
Kid gets invited to a tryout after his freshmen season, you think teams go to that effort and expense just for the fun of it? I would offer his aspirations are within reach, not 'way beyond reality' as you suggest. its almost as if Iowa fans want our players to fail so they stay here for four years. Why wouldn't you as an Iowa fan want Joe to be good enough to get drafted after his first or second year in college? Gotta see the bigger picture here folks.
Indeed I was and he’s coming to Iowa.
I'm not trying to shit on Joe, C. I I apologize if it sounded that way. Its just my opinion that the horse is before the cart here, like with Cook. I want what is best for the player and the program. In my opinion he needs more than two years development at the college level. There are top 50 HS players every year. A vast majority of them are not good enough to play in the NBA.
Wieskamp already has more skills that would make him at least a “specialist” in the NBA then Cook ever had. Let’s give Joe at least one off-season to work on his game and see how he does. Cook had 3 years and basically did little to add to his overall game. He left as a player that still relied on his athleticism to be a decent college player who now is heading to professional ball without a skill-set or dominant skill that would make him attractive to the NBA.
If Wieskamp is the same player in 2 years, you would have a point. My prediction is that won’t be the case.
Don't bet on it! Gone though it with my own son. Believe me, those type relationships can be as magnetic as any force. Isn't Nunge going with an Iowa volleyball player, that in its self maybe the only reason Jack is still at Iowa.....just saying.
There are a lot of those out there. I hope Joe is good enough to leave after next season, I hope it for him not the Hawks. From what I have seen, that option is not going to be available to him and he stays. Unless he just wants out of college, a la Cook.
That one's tough, I go back and forth on that one. I think Alford is a better recruiter. Like I said, 2 thru 5 are so close Fran could easily move to 2nd with a couple notable recruiting victories and a good consistent season without controversy and finishing ranked.
An updated post from a while back, how can you defend this???
2010 65/12
2011 57/9
2012 39/7
2013 79/13
2014 77/11
2015 138/14
2016 31/6
2017 71/10
2018 66/12
2019 61/10
This is Fran's composite rank national/B1Gin his 1st 10 years, an average #67 nationally and #10.4 in B1G. Skimming thru those years, you'll see that 10th in B1G is generous. 2010, Minnesota had no recruits, 3 others with one vs 4 for Iowa. 2011, the Suns Alex Len of Maryland and 2 others didn't get included in team score, etc,etc. A solid 11th out of 14 is likely more accurate, if not still generous. Is this average?
His top 2 recruits, Woody and Joe, were Hawk fans...Thank God! You think either would have picked Iowa if not? There were no blue bloods after his 5th best Gesell, Penn St/Neb are the only ones I can think of off hand. 3rd and 7th are his sons. 4 & 6, Cook(72nd in his class) and Garza (118th) were his 2 true recruiting victories against big programs with no advantage coming in, in 10 years.
Edit: Iowa had one notable transfer in Uthoff not reflected in ranking, problem is, other B1G schools had more in one or 2 years than Fran did in 10!
2010 65/12
2011 57/9
2012 39/7
2013 79/13
2014 77/11
2015 138/14
2016 31/6
2017 71/10
2018 66/12
2019 61/10
This is Fran's composite rank national/B1Gin his 1st 10 years, an average #67 nationally and #10.4 in B1G. Skimming thru those years, you'll see that 10th in B1G is generous. 2010, Minnesota had no recruits, 3 others with one vs 4 for Iowa. 2011, the Suns Alex Len of Maryland and 2 others didn't get included in team score, etc,etc. A solid 11th out of 14 is likely more accurate, if not still generous. Is this average?
His top 2 recruits, Woody and Joe, were Hawk fans...Thank God! You think either would have picked Iowa if not? There were no blue bloods after his 5th best Gesell, Penn St/Neb are the only ones I can think of off hand. 3rd and 7th are his sons. 4 & 6, Cook(72nd in his class) and Garza (118th) were his 2 true recruiting victories against big programs with no advantage coming in, in 10 years.
Edit: Iowa had one notable transfer in Uthoff not reflected in ranking, problem is, other B1G schools had more in one or 2 years than Fran did in 10!
BREAKING: Iowa offers two more guards it has no chance in hell of landing
2020 SG Jonathan Davis (3* per 24/7 and Rivals)
2020 CG DJ Steward (4* per 24/7 and Rivals)
2020 SG Jonathan Davis (3* per 24/7 and Rivals)
2020 CG DJ Steward (4* per 24/7 and Rivals)
So the narrative on this site is that Fran is a terrible recruiter, terrible at developing talent, can’t coach defense, and, at best, an average in game X’s And O’s guy. Does that sound fair based on the consensus of opinion?
My comment is only about the recruiting, and I used facts to paint the picture for the most part.
I actually think Fran is a good recruiter, in that he's great at pitching Iowa and getting high-level players to at least consider coming here. And he's been fairly successful, relative to previous Iowa coaches, in bringing high-level players to Iowa City. Wieskamp, Garza, Cook, Woodbury, Gesell, etc., are among the most highly ranked players to commit to Iowa in a long time.
IMO, the problem is not so much with Fran as with the program itself--Iowa men's basketball just has a ton of disadvantages, in terms of proximity to talent, historical success, financial resources, getting players to the NBA, facilities, etc. Those disadvantages are magnified by the fact that we're not even in the top half of our own conference when it comes to program success, etc. Which is why a team like Ohio State can swoop in and snatch a 5-star player out of our own backyard. And that's not even mentioning the blue-blood programs that routinely poach Iowa talent, and probably will again with Xavier Foster. I don't think it matters who the head coach is, Iowa will always struggle to get top recruits.
As for developing talent, again I disagree. Devyn Marble, Aaron White, Jarrod Uthoff and Peter Jok were all first team all Big Ten as seniors. Of those guys, only Uthoff was a 4-star recruit out of high school.
Defense: Fran can coach defense - he just doesn't emphasize it the way some coaches do. He deploys a variety of defenses and presses but is more interested in outscoring the other team than holding them scoreless. It's a style of play thing. Sometimes, when we don't have the right players, our defense is atrocious. Other times, when we do, our defense is pretty good.
In-game coaching: Fran has some strengths (out-of-bounds plays, switching defenses) and some weaknesses (excessively rotating players, losing his temper). He's gotten better at using timeouts and doesn't get T'd up nearly as often as he used to. But he struggles to beat the elite teams in the conference, even as he routinely beats the weaker teams. I'll chalk some of that up to the limitations of our roster. He's an above-average coach who can have a great season with the right players. IMO, if he was at a more prestigious program he could do very well.
College basketball teams lose players every year - there is nothing overly abnormal about having to rely somewhat (starter(s) to minimal play time) on 5 players that did not play the previous year.
I completely agree with all of this. My question (trap) was directed toward the vocal naysayers who think that Fran has done a poor job at Iowa.
Let's be honest about Fran.. he runs a system that SCREAMS point guard and he's never had one. If i have to pick a complaint, that's it.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
How in the world has he won games at Iowa without the pg he so desperately needs and can never get?
Exactly: Fran has had plenty of solid PGs. But he's never had the kind of elite PG that could run his system at the highest level: a lightning quick guard who can take his defender off the dribble, shoot from deep, and make smart passes in traffic. What some people call a "true" point guard but I prefer to call a "complete" point guard.
Bro D is absolutely right: Fran runs the kind of offense that a PG like that would love to play in, where he gives his players tons of freedom to use their skills and athleticism to greatest effect. So it's surprising that he's gone 9 years without getting that kind of player. Obviously Fran can win plenty of games without a complete PG, but there's a ceiling on how successful the Hawks can be.
And yet, despite those recruiting rankings, in six out of his nine seasons as head coach Iowa has finished in the top half of the Big Ten. Weird.
2019: 6th
2018: 11th
2017: 5th
2016: 3rd
2015: 3rd
2014: 6th
2013: 6th
2012: 7th
2011: 10th
I think your point is valid, but many of those years there were a lot of crappy teams at the bottom of the league.
The bottomline is Fran is probably a C+/B- level coach. For some fans, that's good enough. For others, not so much.
So... what you just pointed out is that despite being one of the worst recruiters, he overachieves???
I think Fran has performed marginally better than expected considering what he has to work with at Iowa. The problem is... it’s still nothing to crow about.
People gushing about his ability and hoping that “he coaches at iowa for many, many more years” are flat out delusional in my opinion. They simply can’t point to a single outstanding thing that he has accomplished in 9 years.
When back to back “third place” finishes (both multiple way ties in a league with unsymmetrical scheduling) are the highlight of your nine year body of work... sure it could be worse but ... come on.
“Finishing in the top half” of a 14 team league “six out of nine years” is really, really straining for something positive.*
*For those who read that sentence and immediately felt the need to mention that the league had only twelve teams for some of that nine year period... you’re part of the problem.
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Well this league does have Izzo, Painter and Beilein... Never going to be easy to get to the top of the Big10.
I was pointing out that, while Fran's recruiting classes have been ranked near the bottom of the conference, his teams have not performed that way. You can't judge a coach based on recruiting rankings. You judge them by wins and losses. And Fran has won more than he's lost.
Yeah, he hasn't accomplished anything of note, unless you count getting Iowa back to the tournament as an accomplishment. A lot of the reasons fans support Fran have to do with where we were before he came. I think he's a fine coach. If Bohannon doesn't miss that wide-open 3 toward the end of the Tennessee game, we probably win in regulation and go to the Sweet Sixteen - I'd imagine everyone would be singing Fran's praises then. But he missed the shot, and we lost, so it doesn't matter. The line between "great coach" and "fire him" is a lot thinner than we pretend it is.
I hope Fran can get Iowa over the hump. There's still a chance he can. But if next season is more of the same, or another step backward, it's probably best if we part ways. We'll see.
Who is gushing? Do you think we are "gushing" because we see both the bad and the good?
Every coaching staff has weaknesses and strengths. Recognizing that makes the experience a lot more balanced. I really enjoyed last season for the most part. The season before was agony, but they righted the ship and got back into the tourney this season. Came close to having a spectacular year. I am still looking for better things in the future.
I would contend that if next season is more of the same, but he somehow miraculously lands Foster and Suggs (or another top 50 guard) in the 2020 class we ride it out and see what happens. Unfortunately, Fran has not shown the ability to recruit that kind of talent.
Absolutely. You have to look at the trajectory of the program, and that includes recruiting. A successful recruiting class for 2020 would be a major point in Fran's favor. Getting Xavier Foster would be huge, but even if we don't, landing 2-3 top 100 kids would do a lot for the momentum of the program. If we lose Foster to say, Duke--fine. So be it. Virtually nobody beats Duke for a recruit. But if we lose him to Iowa State? Not good.
"Who is a the Hawkeyes gonna git ?"We have 3 Schollies available, right now ?
The twins ??? The Notre Damer?
Go Hawks
What country are you from?
He has won games in spite of our point guard situation.. not sure why that is so hard to understand?
Why do you ask? You certainly don't have a problem with people from 'other' countries being here, do you? Hmmmmmmmm?
And you didn't help with an Answer to the question, I posted, originally.
Go Freakin Hawks--------
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