Why Does Trump Oppose Helping Ukraine?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
Generally, no. But sometimes, maybe. This might be one of those times.
Maybe we don't want an exit plan.
We'd like to see a severely degraded Russia. We also wouldn't mind having a place where we can test and develop weapons and strategies in a technologically evolving world.
A long, drawn-out war in Ukraine might be just what the doctor ordered.
It's not like we actually give a damn about Ukraine.
Please. You are going all MIC on this one. Those that defend a country by providing arms or other assistance are typically rewarded with contracts to rebuild. This is nothing new. The fact of the matter is that this wouldn't be an issue if Russia didn't invade Ukraine. Money is always an issue but keeping an enemy in check is the end game. If you are okay with Russians killing Ukrainians because the USA will get contracts after the war you are upside down.
If we wouldn't be helping Ukraine unless we make a profit, maybe we shouldn't be helping Ukraine.
I'm of the opinion we should be helping Ukraine. But I'm not convinced we are doing it for the right reasons. The more it looks like we are doing it so particular economic sectors - the MIC, obviously, the fossil energy sector, and maybe more - can make a killing, the less convinced I am that we are doing it for the right reason.
"If we wouldn't be helping Ukraine unless we make a profit, maybe we shouldn't be helping Ukraine."
This is straight up idiotic. Everything you state is your opinion without anything to back it up.
F*ck Ukraine, and I'll tell ya why.
They put Hunter Biden on their gas company board to gain access to Joe.
Trump was impeached for investigating the corruption.
Joe is paying them back to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
F*ck em all. I hope Putin flattens the shithole.
They put Hunter Biden on their gas company board to gain access to Joe.
Trump was impeached for investigating the corruption.
Joe is paying them back to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
F*ck em all. I hope Putin flattens the shithole.
That is an overly cynical look. Truth is for those of us that don't like authoritarian regimes we see Russia invading Ukraine and realize we've seen this movie before when Hitler invaded the Sudenland and everyone just accepted it.
Best to finally stop Putin here before he starts getting ideas about screwing around with a NATO ally and we're suddenly in World War 3.
Russia was ready to end the war and withdraw its troops in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality just a few months after the invasion began and was refused partly because of ex-British PM Boris Johnson, who pressured Kyiv into continuing the fight, David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party confirmed in a recent interview, published on Friday, November 24th.
The lawmaker is not only leading the parliamentary faction of Zelensky’s Servant of the People party but was also appointed as the head of the Ukrainian delegation during the initial, tentative peace talks in March and April, hosted by Turkey.
Russia’s ultimate goal was to press Ukraine into neutrality, Arahamiya explained, adding that all other requests (like the elusive ‘de-nazification’) were essentially empty cosmetics, and neutrality would have been enough for Russia to agree to withdraw beyond the February 24th frontlines.
According to Arahamiya, there were several reasons for Ukraine’s refusal, and one of them was direct Western influence on the peace talks.
The lawmaker recalled that while the negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow were underway in Istanbul, Johnson unexpectedly arrived in Kyiv on April 9th, 2022, telling Zelensky that he
Furthermore, Aramahiya noted, such an agreement would have needed to modify the constitution first (since it contains the desire to join NATO). The third point was that Kyiv didn’t trust Moscow to hold up its end of the bargain and not invade again—especially not without international security guarantees.
Thankyou!
I may get killed for this and I want to be clear I do believe Putin is a scumbag, but what is he suppose to do? NATO has expanded during every US administration to the point where it's at his border. I think it was George W's presidency were launchers were sent or installed in Poland, constant talk of Ukraine joining. If Russia built weapons depots in Toronto we'd attack Canada in a heartbeat.
Point is take the damn deal.
So, everyone is responsible except Russia?
I wonder why those countries want to join NATO? Russia is just so awesome and hasn't historically been a giant piece of shit to them.
Yeah I also forgot about Putin's plan for world domination. Cuz ya know he so obviously demonstrated that in his 20 years in charge
Invaded Georgia. Invaded Ukraine. Puppet state in Belarus. Makes proclamations that other former states are really Russian territory.
That you can't see why former soviet states hate Russia and want nothing to do with them is a you problem.
That you can't see why former soviet states hate Russia and want nothing to do with them is a you problem.
He has invaded several countries since he has been in charge, Ukraine is just the biggest and one with the most ability to fight back.
Also and I want to say this too, sovereign nations get to decide who they want to be friends with. Just as we would have no right to dictate to the UK if it should be in the EU or not, Russia has no right to tell Ukraine it can't join NATO.
Also say Ukraine agrees to those terms and becomes a Russian puppet (You are a puppet if they dictate your foreign policy like that) what makes you believe that Russia wouldn't just use the time to modernize it's military and come back to finish the job?
Putin needs to be stopped, with force.
Ok but why do we have to play World Police all the time? That side of the world has had conflicts for thousands of years, let them figure it out. There is enough issues here money can go too
Eh, Israel isn't my argument never has been. However to the rest of the Republicans it is. Again, good luck telling Israel to shove it. I would grab the popcorn. I think we should defend Ukraine over Israel in my opinion.
He is certainly the best candidate on every issue other than Ukraine ... so I may have to. I still intend to vote for Haley next week in our primary.
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You wrote, “So you are willing to let Israel die on the vine,” as though Israel was not a sovereign nation with the duties that implies, but instead was a flower in our garden to tend and be responsible for.
Just not how I look at other countries from this one.
EU blamed Georgia for starting that fight.
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.
Don't think us providing weapons and aid to Ukraine helping to defend themselves, and hopefully avert a future direct conflict with NATO involvement, without risking American soldiers is being world police. It is us taking a crowbar to the knees of the only country to threaten to kill us all and have the ability to do it for a fraction of the US defense budget.
Ya, the negative interest rates and tariffs guy is best candidate for inflation.
I think Russia is acting reasonable for the threat they are encountering. They are threatened by Ukraine joining nato. No country wants enemy troops on their border.
If China was paying Mexico billions of dollars and sending weapons to put on the border, I don't think the usa would like that either.
Russia wants Crimea for access to the black sea and they want the rest of Ukraine to stay neutral.
Nato has chosen to pressure Russia by entertaining the idea of Ukraine joining nato. I think it's reasonable for Russia to fight back.
I don't think Russia is innocent though, I just think the usa and nato are the instigators in this conflict.
They’re manipulated as well.
It was known that expanded NATO to Ukraine could spark a civil war, and Russia would have to decide to intervene, or not.
If Kruschev ignored JFKs warnings and blockade, and tried to put Soviet bases in Cuba, would you say that the US was provoked to war in response, or just decided to go to war over Cuba because we were inherently militaristic and expansionist?
Which of my speculations do you think is wrong?
Do you, for example, think the MIC and folks like Exxon aren't making windfall profits?
Or do you think those companies' donations to our elected reps don't fuel support for the war?
I expect we will resume funding the Ukraine war sometime soon. But it may be close. If US enterprises weren't raking in profits, do you think that Ukraine funding would be just as likely? I don't.
Those supporting our involvement have made a talking point of how this conflict is funneling tax dollars into the MIC, and how for this we should be grateful.
Cynical, yes - but overly cynical...?
The domino theory in Europe makes even less sense to me than the domino theory that justified the Vietnam war. Nor do I think risking nuclear war over Ukraine is a sensible plan to avoid nuclear war over Latvia.
That's NOT an argument for letting Russia take Ukraine. That's not what I'm saying.
Did he say that? Do you think that's a reasonable inference from what he said?
This fallacy ought to have a name. Does it?
It's too awkward to call it the "drawing an unsupported inference then accusing the speaker of holding that position" fallacy.
Their invasion added Finland and Sweden to NATO. If they were worried about more border with NATO they royally miscalculated.
The real reason they are pissed is because they can't exert control over countries they used to. NATO was never going to invade Russia and those countries wouldn't want in NATO if Russia wasn't a giant piece of shit to them. NATO isn't holding a gun to these countries heads forcing them to join, they are joining because NATO and Europe are better military and economic options than Russia. If Russia doesn't want everyone to hate them they should consider looking inward.
Only way we can prevent Russia from taking Ukraine is by giving them military equipment and money.
The domino theory in Europe is correct because you have one dictator hell bent on imposing himself on his neighbors by force. The domino theory in Vietnam was not correct because that was simply an ideology that quite a bit of the country wanted to follow.
Plus the Vietnamese hate China. That's why if shit hit the fan Vietnam is going to be an American ally.
Did not know that.
Although if shit hits the fan it might be tough getting South Korea to work with Japan. I know they don't much like each other because of how Japan used to treat them during WW2 and the fact that a lot of Japanese refuse to even acknowledge it happened.
The more interesting question might be why didn't Sweden and Finland want to join NATO previously? I don't know the answer to that one but I assume it's out there.
How much more at risk are they now than before the Ukraine war? What's actually changed for them?
None of the reasons why Russia attacked Ukraine seem to apply to Finland or Sweden. Neither has important resources Russia wants - as compared with Ukraine or their NATO neighbor Norway - and Sweden doesn't even share a border.
So why would they want to commit money, military, and manpower to become bit players in a military alliance mostly controlled by and benefiting the US?
The ‘ideology’ that the Vietnamese were sold on was independence. The communist stuff was so they could get help from that bloc after we sold them down the river to French colonialism after WW1 and WW2.
The Domino theory doesn’t apply to Ukraine because on the other side of Ukraine is NATO (read:US), which Russia is rightly afraid to go to war with.
Russia wants a buffer between it and NATO. That’s why its demands in Minsk I & II was for Donetsk and Luhansk to be in Ukraine, with a veto over NATO membership to keep the country neutral.
I don't see the difference. We claim that Putin wants more than Ukraine. We claimed that N.Vietnam and/or China and/or Russia wanted more than S.Vietnam. We were sure we were right then; we're sure we're right now.
Fvcking facts....and Trump doesn't want to help because he has a vested interest NOT too
