Why Does Trump Oppose Helping Ukraine?

[artradley]

No need to attack me for your different interpretation of what he said.

What he said (my interpretation, using his word) was that Russia's actions were "reasonable."

"Reasonable" is a tricky word. But I took that to mean that he sees Russia responding to actual perceived threats and provocations in ways that are in most nations' playbooks. Which I agree with - and is probably a good argument for improving our playbooks.

That's NOT the same as saying I support Putin in any way. Nor is that even slightly blaming everybody but Russia. Just that I do not judge what's going on there solely on the widely regurgitated and grotesquely dumbed-down talking points in the mainstream echo chambers.

Which is to say that while I recognize that Putin felt driven to invade Ukraine by the actions of other nations - mainly us - it's still easy for me to condemn Putin's actions.

And I did not say he was supporting Putin. I said he was refusing to blame Russia. Because he refuses to blame Russia.

 

[globalhawk]

Dude I'm not saying Russia isn't at fault they could have just sent missles into the ocean to prove a point instead of invading. I am just saying I'm not going to look at facts then just completely act shocked that they did invade.

They had already invaded Georgia, Moldova and basically annexed Belarus. You seem to be looking at facts from a certain position. There is a reason that Europe doesn't trust Russia. Again, NATO is already on Russia's border. It seems that you need to do a little more reading on the issue.

 

[ButtersHawk]

They had already invaded Georgia, Moldova and basically annexed Belarus. You seem to be looking at facts from a certain position. There is a reason that Europe doesn't trust Russia. Again, NATO is already on Russia's border. It seems that you need to do a little more reading on the issue.

Based off past history why don't we just kill Putin then and try to install a democratic government? Worked every time right?

 

[globalhawk]

Based off past history why don't we just kill Putin then and try to install a democratic government? Worked every time right?

 

[ButtersHawk]

What? Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan all went/going smoothly right?

 

[globalhawk]

What? Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan all went/going smoothly right?

Russia invaded Ukraine. What does this have to do with Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan? How are these even close to related? Give me your explanation.

 

[ButtersHawk]

Russia invaded Ukraine. What does this have to do with Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan? How are these even close to related? Give me your explanation.

This my response to us playing World Police all the time. Why? Why do we need to fix every damn problem? Lets do the American thing and kill Putin and install a Democratic government. It has worked 100% of the time right? So lets do it.

 

[globalhawk]

This my response to us playing World Police all the time. Why? Why do we need to fix every damn problem? Lets do the American thing and kill Putin and install a Democratic government. It has worked 100% of the time right? So lets do it.

You aren't living in reality. Putin is trying to restore the USSR. He is invading free countries. You have not studied history it appears. Why would Finland want to join NATO ... because Russia phuqing invaded them during WW2. The Baltics, Poland, East Germany, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova and many more all under Russian control. You believe that we shouldn't actually care about Putin's intentions. This is insane.

 

[ButtersHawk]

You aren't living in reality. Putin is trying to restore the USSR. He is invading free countries. You have not studied history it appears. Why would Finland want to join NATO ... because Russia phuqing invaded them during WW2. The Baltics, Poland, East Germany, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova and many more all under Russian control. You believe that we shouldn't actually care about Putin's intentions. This is insane.

Man that's terrible if true. If he achieves recreating the USSR we should immediately attack, overthrow, and establish a Democracy in Russia.

 

[globalhawk]

Man that's terrible if true. If he achieves recreating the USSR we should immediately attack, overthrow, and establish a Democracy in Russia.

Holy shitz. I am not sure you are serious.

 

[artradley]

Holy shitz. I am not sure you are serious.

I think he realized he was on the wrong end of this discussion, and now he’s just flailing to change to conversation.