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Why Is Everything Liberal?

Thoughts on this? Some highlights; while this country is about 50-50 liberal vs. conservative, liberals tend to donate more and protest more, i.e., they care more about politics, which leads to entities becoming more liberal.

Liberals also tend to care more about politics in regards to their friendships; i.e., it's tougher for a liberal to be friends with a conservative than vice versa.

I'd say there are points in the article that I see play out on this board; for some I'd go so far as to say have an unhealthy obsession with politics.


Liberals are intellectual and academic by nature. Science and knowledge do actually matter. Distorted conspiracy theories are playthings for the uninformed and easily persuaded. The interest and concern in politics and social concerns are more studied and researched than are by conservative equivalents, which makes the communication difficult as you noted. The philosophical gap is in fact widening, becoming huge in the past four years.
 
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In the current version of the Republican party, anything or anyone that isn't directly aligned with the Republican/conservative movement equals "liberal".

This plays out as far as media/culture in that mainstream media is labeled as "liberal" because it's not part of the rightwing media borg (Fox News, Breitbart, etc).
 
In the current version of the Republican party, anything or anyone that isn't directly aligned with the Republican/conservative movement equals "liberal".

This plays out as far as media/culture in that mainstream media is labeled as "liberal" because it's not part of the rightwing media borg (Fox News, Breitbart, etc).

So they define it. Anyone not in synch with their "ideology" is radical.

That by definition is a radical position. The rightwing media is so far out of reality, it is beyond characterization. Their reporting/data/information base often cannot be supported by sources outside its own universe.
 
So they define it. Anyone not in synch with their "ideology" is radical.

That by definition is a radical position. The rightwing media is so far out of reality, it is beyond characterization. Their reporting/data/information base often cannot be supported by sources outside its own universe.

Yeah, that's what I hear when conservatives speak. It's interesting because traditional conservatism was at least a hodgepodge of ideas somewhat related to foundational principles (weak as they were, there was a "there" there).

But the iteration of conservatism that began with the bankruptcy of ideas within the Tea Party and degraded into the reactionary emotional immaturity of MAGA? They've embraced stupidity, absurdism, and ignorance as prime values and they pour it forth like drunks pissing against the wall outside a bar.

They have no knowledge of even their OWN history, how they came into existence from the seeds planted in previous generations of conservatives. They are the result of Roger Stone's ejaculations since working with Nixon in the 1970s. He and his ilk conceived and birthed the current iteration of idiots -- and I'm not using "idiots" as a disparaging remark about MAGA folk; rather, it's a dry descriptor of who and what they actually are.

If they weren't such despicable human beings independent of their political views it would be easier to have sympathy for them. The irony, of course, was that some conservatives in the past, at least, had dignity and integrity. I'd often disagree with George Will, but I recognized him as thoughtful, considerate, and serious about his political philosophy. He cared enough to study and learn history, philosophy, science, the arts before publishing or saying anything. He didn't want to be a clown for wealth and power; he wanted to be serious about it at least and he recognized the dangers that both democracy and capitalism presented to societies even as he advocated for them.

We'll probably never see a serious thinker involved with conservatism ever again. And that's too bad because it provided a check on certain types of un-democratic political moves from the left and an intelligent and historically-based conservatism could mount legitimate arguments against the excesses of "wokeness" attitudes toward free expression.

It's primarily because of this intellectual absence that I've taken up that mantle a bit because SOMEONE has to put forth an intelligent case that CRT presents dangers to free expression and liberty (which used to be important tenets of conservatism, the tenets I liked the most from their philosophical positions).

There's nothing left of conservatism in public life in the U.S. There's angry racism and spewed hatred of liberals -- they couldn't recognize a liberal if one bit them on the nose. How could they? They have no coherent concepts tying together disparate liberal philosophies. Hell, they don't even know what a concept is!

Turns out, the right amount of people had been voting all those years with 50 percent turnout of eligible voters. The people who weren't voting were doing us all a favor. They were dumb, ignorant, and uninterested and not voting is the right choice for people who don't take citizenship seriously. Unfortunately, those morons have become interested in politics -- but only the fantasy politics of talk radio, Fox News, and online insanity that titillates their underdeveloped senses and tells them who to hate and how to hate them properly.

There is almost nothing human about them, certainly nothing moral or ethical, nothing inquisitive or insightful, nothing worthwhile for humanity at all. The only reason I even care whether they live or die is because I'm not convinced that they are doomed to this fate, that they have the potential to change, the potential to develop humanity within themselves. If I didn't believe that, I would think it best to put them down for the sake of the future of humanity.
 
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A few notes on the article linked in the OP. First, liberals likely care more about politics than conservatives because fewer of their philosophical positions exist in public and institutional reality. Few ever have. Meanwhile, most of what conservatives want has always existed in the U.S. If they are fighting for anything it's to keep things the way theyve been.

So it makes sense that liberals care more. Given how few liberal ideas are incorporated in economics in the U.S. (or the world), it's stunning that they aren't more radical than they are. If that speaks to anything about liberals it is just how blind they are to the fact that hierarchical institutions (which all of ours are in the U.S., even "liberal" nonprofits) are patriarchal in design.

So the stupidity of liberals is that they think they can make the country and world more liberal by using the patriarchal and capitalist institutional designs as vehicles for change. It's a form of parentalism. There hasn't been any real radicalism in America since the anarchists were all killed or jailed in the 1920s. The 60s were an immature effort comparatively; no real commitment to change and most of the radicals have become some variation of conservative or milquetoast liberal.

Meanwhile, true conservatives are happy as pigs in shit because they've gotten major tax breaks, a deregulated economy, hyper-privatization of government, the largest military in the world by leaps and bounds, as well as paramilitary-style law enforcement agencies at the federal, state, and local level. So the only real complaint related to a denial of something they want is abortion. That's the only thing they don't have on their wish list of Big Things. That's it.

The only other things they complain about are having to be exposed to ideas and people they don't like on the news, in movies, at restaurants, and in public life in general. Some of them are so offended by the presence of difference that they pay massive amounts of money to live in gated and otherwise protected communities. They're scared shitless of losing a penny or having to hear the word "liberal" or see a black person who isn't a servant in some form.

You want to talk about the princess and the pea, about cowardice? That's conservatism. If they don't get EVERYTHING they want then they feel like they've lost and a great burden has been put upon them. The very idea of a poor person not suffering makes them feel like there must be something wrong with the country because people should only ever feel good if they have the money to afford the privilege of feeling good. That the commons in society should be pleasant and welcoming? That's un-American!

Here's another point the article misses. Institutions are not liberal by structure or design. They are traditional, paternalistic, and hierarchical. They do not respect liberty or free expression WITHIN the institutions; they have their own forms of sovereignty (which would take some heavy-duty philosophical unpacking to explain).

The article makes the mistake of conflating power by measures of "wokeness" within institutions rather than seeing that institutions can absorb them without changing the dynamics of inequality or hierarchical power relations.

That highlights the biggest mistake: misunderstanding liberalism. If the author believes that liberalism has been entirely reduced to impotent wokeness principles then he's dead wrong. Liberalism is still about institutional reform in the sense of structural and systemic reform. That individuals in these institutions give to a Democrat and vote for Biden is immaterial. Biden isn't making any sweeping liberal reforms of government institutions (let alone economic institutions like banks, investment firms, or corporations).

Introducing different words to use in the institutions does nothing to make the goals and practices of institutions different. Corporations can use woke and feminist words and still be 100 percent focused on profits. Capitalism can swallow anything and turn it into either a financial transaction or a financial opportunity. Hell, that bitch that co-founded BLM and claims to be a Marxist while buying over $3 million in residences is as conservative and capitalist as the Koch brothers. Hell, it's even more capitalist than the Koch's because she's using her Marxist credentials to make money! That's the highest form of capitalism: to use anti-capitalist ideas to make money!

She should be applauded by conservatives for being such a clever and devious capitalist. But, as I've said, there are few people who are truly conservative. Our institutions, meanwhile, are entirely conservative in design and function.

The way people think and what they believe is generally the product of circumstance and design of institutions. Families are sub-agents of formal institutions and they uphold traditional institutionalism at all turns. If liberalism ever wants to "grow up" and be something other than a minor reformer of traditional institutionalist values it will have to come up with alternative institutional designs, functions, and goals. That's lofty stuff, but without it everything will be business as usual for the indefinite future.

If conservatives can just learn to handle saying new words in institutions nothing else will have to change for them. How is that not a win for tradition and conservatism? Grow up, pussies, and recognize things are mostly as you like them to be! You have everything you want other than zero taxes, abortion, and having to see black and brown people on TV and in public places. Oh, shit, forgot about the real issue: You have to go to school and work alongside black and brown kids and adults. That's gotta be rough for you, huh?
 
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Shit, I didn't even critique the author's reliance on utility. Utilitarianism is a weak philosophy, but unfortunately it's widely adopted by Americans (without most of them even knowing it).
 
Liberals are intellectual and academic by nature. Science and knowledge do actually matter. Distorted conspiracy theories are playthings for the uninformed and easily persuaded. The interest and concern in politics and social concerns are more studied and researched than are by conservative equivalents, which makes the communication difficult as you noted. The philosophical gap is in fact widening, becoming huge in the past four years.
Yeah, it's why they're so certain they should run the world. They just know they're gooder than those who don't share their views. They can solve any problem because of their superior intellect. I mean, look their incredible success in California, New York, and Illinois.

The arrogance of many liberals may be my favorite thing on this planet to observe. And we've got some delightfully self absorbed HROT liberals to enjoy.

I do agree with you ft254 about the widening philosophical gap. But that gap may be broadest between Washington and the rest of America.
 
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Yeah, it's why they're so certain they should run the world. They just know they're gooder than those who don't share their views. They can solve any problem because of their superior intellect. I mean, look their incredible success in California, New York, and Illinois.

The arrogance of many liberals may be my favorite thing on this planet to observe. And we've got some delightfully self absorbed HROT liberals to enjoy.

I do agree with you ft254 about the widening philosophical gap. But that gap may be broadest between Washington and the rest of America.

It's not a issue of arrogance and I expected this response. Eh, to be honest, a California, New York, Illinois an example of response that separates you, and others from critical thinking. It's attitudinal, with perceptions formed through social and political biases.

It's an issue of awareness. As Kinsella raised his initial post, liberals care more about politics. That's because we are informed. We don't have Limbaugh and Fox blasting conspiratorial bullshit twenty four hours a day.
We actually seek information. We likely have been educated and continue to seek information.

Of course intelligence and intellectualism is not exclusive. But, my god, are you unaware of the effort by the right to minimize science? This was not covert. The Orange Turd closed labs and ordered manuals be removed. It was so brazen, it is too massive a subject to address in this forum.

But this is part of the dumbness of the right; the antithesis of intellectualism.

Individuals make decisions. You made yours to be a conservative.
 
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Current party strength[edit]​

Gallup[edit]​

On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent.[3]
 
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Yeah, it's why they're so certain they should run the world. They just know they're gooder than those who don't share their views. They can solve any problem because of their superior intellect. I mean, look their incredible success in California, New York, and Illinois.

The arrogance of many liberals may be my favorite thing on this planet to observe. And we've got some delightfully self absorbed HROT liberals to enjoy.

I do agree with you ft254 about the widening philosophical gap. But that gap may be broadest between Washington and the rest of America.
I would rather have somebody who could think for themselves rather than a bunch of indoctrinated seditionists who only listed to russian folk music(aka qanon).
 
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Shit, I didn't even critique the author's reliance on utility. Utilitarianism is a weak philosophy, but unfortunately it's widely adopted by Americans (without most of them even knowing it).

The post ideological 67-75 years were a bummer. I really thought things could be changed. My generation had the spirit and the balls to take initiative and tell elders to fcvk off.

But there seemed to be optimism. Things seemed to work even though everything was broken. Race situations were horrible..worse than today. Assassinations, war, civil rights marches, riots, Vice Presidential scandal resulting in resignation, Watergate, a President resigning in disgrace. Shoe horned in were the magical NASA moments; 1st American in space, 1st man to orbit, 1st man to step on the moon. Ford beat Ferrari at Le Mans. More stuff that I can remember.

But, we didn't change a thing. All the energy and intentions resulted in zilch. I've been disappointed in the generations since that haven't displayed interest or energy in equivalent pursuit. Have I not noticed. Or, maybe I need to surrender my notions of idealism.
 
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The post ideological 67-75 years were a bummer. I really thought things could be changed. My generation had the spirit and the balls to take initiative and tell elders to fcvk off.

But there seemed to be optimism. Things seemed to work even though everything was broken. Race situations were horrible..worse than today. Assassinations, war, civil rights marches, riots, Vice Presidential scandal resulting in resignation, Watergate, a President resigning in disgrace. Shoe horned in were the magical NASA moments; 1st American in space, 1st man to orbit, 1st man to step on the moon. Ford beat Ferrari at Le Mans. More stuff that I can remember.

But, we didn't change a thing. All the energy and intentions resulted in zilch. I've been disappointed in the generations since that haven't displayed interest or energy in equivalent pursuit. Have I not noticed. Or, maybe I need to surrender my notions of idealism.

I think underlying your points is that the U.S. did not really take advantage of the post-WWII Cold War window from the 50s through the 90s when they were the undisputed Western economic, political, and military force in the world.

Then the 90s and 2000s, after the totalitarian USSR collapsed, we did shit other than bankroll the other totalitarian power for 30 years by moving nearly our entire manufacturing base to China (and a smattering if other countries like Mexico, Vietnam, etc.).

We gave away our national advantage by giving the wheel if our country to narrowly-focused profit-making strategies of multinational corporations. It's quite possibly the dumbest foreign policy-making economic strategy of any empire throughout history.

We've given away so much of the wealth we could have accumulated as a nation-state in tax breaks to corporations who transferred our nation's wealth overseas and into the hands of a tiny number of "global" billionaires as well as corrupt and abusive governments like Russia's oligarchy, China's totalitarianism, Mexican and South American drug cartels (the result of the economically retarded thinking behind the War on Drugs). The War on Terror is another ridiculous waste of money compared to the paltry economic and human lives damage foreign terrorism causes (intelligence and special ops could handle these issues as international criminal matters instead of "nation-building" to once again enrich the private contractors providing military services).

So we shot ourselves in the foot as a nation by allowing our post-WWII arrogance to lull us into some type of invincibility thinking. We screwed ourselves out of the chance for a better country and world.
 
I think underlying your points is that the U.S. did not really take advantage of the post-WWII Cold War window from the 50s through the 90s when they were the undisputed Western economic, political, and military force in the world.

Then the 90s and 2000s, after the totalitarian USSR collapsed, we did shit other than bankroll the other totalitarian power for 30 years by moving nearly our entire manufacturing base to China (and a smattering if other countries like Mexico, Vietnam, etc.).

We gave away our national advantage by giving the wheel if our country to narrowly-focused profit-making strategies of multinational corporations. It's quite possibly the dumbest foreign policy-making economic strategy of any empire throughout history.

We've given away so much of the wealth we could have accumulated as a nation-state in tax breaks to corporations who transferred our nation's wealth overseas and into the hands of a tiny number of "global" billionaires as well as corrupt and abusive governments like Russia's oligarchy, China's totalitarianism, Mexican and South American drug cartels (the result of the economically retarded thinking behind the War on Drugs). The War on Terror is another ridiculous waste of money compared to the paltry economic and human lives damage foreign terrorism causes (intelligence and special ops could handle these issues as international criminal matters instead of "nation-building" to once again enrich the private contractors providing military services).

So we shot ourselves in the foot as a nation by allowing our post-WWII arrogance to lull us into some type of invincibility thinking. We screwed ourselves out of the chance for a better country and world.

You have to ask: how can can you argue against the proposals you raised? But now, set a marker at the point and time we are in. The issues are far more complicated, and not because you omitted them, but because the world-wide conditions are more complex, and strategies involve nuance and pragmatism.

We at least are dealing with the climate crisis. I saw photos on a web site of what was representative of Los Angeles in 1957 and today, and the improvement was remarkable. You couldn't see the mountains and could barely make out the buildings in the '57 photo, while the current photo was clear. Similarly, a national color coded map of that same year showed green red for polluted areas and green for non areas. Red shades appeared for the obvious areas; LA, Chi, NY, etc., with lighter shaded red areas covering much of the country. Today, no red is displayed. None.

The storm boiling under the surface we will have to deal with is automation. Robotics will replace humans in many activities, and it may seem easy to chalk up as science fiction, but planning and forecasting must consider this eventuality. The trucking industry is already involved. The issue their industry faces is driver limitations due to physical constraints, which robots don't experience.

Eliminate the human delay factor due to fatigue, while reducing that cost, voila!

Likewise in material handling, for example. Warehousing or manufacturing, or any repetitive, preprescribed activity, no labor and associated costs and limitations.

Our society will have to deal with it. The manufacturing jobs lost to China and Mexico are gone. If they return it will be as profit driven automated manufacturing, not as assembly lines as before to placate regional economies. The world changes. We drive the change but can't figure out how to get out of the way.
 
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You have to ask: how can can you argue against the proposals you raised? But now, set a marker at the point and time we are in. The issues are far more complicated, and not because you omitted them, but because the world-wide conditions are more complex, and strategies involve nuance and pragmatism.

We at least are dealing with the climate crisis. I saw photos on a web site of what was representative of Los Angeles in 1957 and today, and the improvement was remarkable. You couldn't see the mountains and could barely make out the buildings in the '57 photo, while the current photo was clear. Similarly, a national color coded map of that same year showed green red for polluted areas and green for non areas. Red shades appeared for the obvious areas; LA, Chi, NY, etc., with lighter shaded red areas covering much of the country. Today, no red is displayed. None.

The storm boiling under the surface we will have to deal with is automation. Robotics will replace humans in many activities, and it may seem easy to chalk up as science fiction, but planning and forecasting must consider this eventuality. The trucking industry is already deeply involved. The issue their industry faces is driver limitations due to physical constraints, which robots don't experience.

Eliminate the human delay factor due to fatigue, while reducing that cost, voila!

Likewise in material handling, for example. Warehousing or manufacturing, or any repetitive, preprescribed activity, no labor and associated costs and limitations.

Our society will have to deal with it. The manufacturing jobs lost to China and Mexico are gone. If they return it will be as profit driven automated manufacturing, not as assembly lines as before to placate regional economies. The world changes. We drive the change but can't figure out how to get out of the way.

You're right. The past is the past. I hope it can inform our future in some if the areas of concern you highlighted. There has been tremendous progress on climate change. The things they are discovering about soil as a key ingredient in the fight against climate change has HUGE implications for the future of agriculture playing a positive role in climate change strategies instead of currently being one if the worst offenders. We're in this weird in-between time because of the long recovery from the 08-09 crisis, obstructionism, Trump, and the pandemic. Those things conspired against us, but you're right, we have to start from where we are.
 
You're right. The past is the past. I hope it can inform our future in some if the areas of concern you highlighted. There has been tremendous progress on climate change. The things they are discovering about soil as a key ingredient in the fight against climate change has HUGE implications for the future of agriculture playing a positive role in climate change strategies instead of currently being one if the worst offenders. We're in this weird in-between time because of the long recovery from the 08-09 crisis, obstructionism, Trump, and the pandemic. Those things conspired against us, but you're right, we have to start from where we are.

I foresee an explosion of scientific advancement filling the void left by the Orange Turd dark age. And is usually the case with crises, a consequence of the Covid will be technologies developed having far reaching affects. Through posts on this board we see the progress toward hybrid embryo lab work.

A mission with incredible manipulative interaction from 187 million miles leads to a device flying on Mars just 118 years after the Wright brother's first flight. Think about that. We will be mapping Mar's surface within a decade. It's not hyperbole to say the skies not the limit.

In science, and all else in the pursuit of knowledge, every discovery is simply a key to a door to another.
 
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