Since about 2019-20 he eluded to having “18 months left”. He even mentioned it at the beginning of this thread. I too noticed that he hasn’t posted much in awhile.
Why was Tom Davis forced out?
- Thread starter Kinnick.At.Night
- Start date
Since about 2019-20 he eluded to having “18 months left”. He even mentioned it at the beginning of this thread. I too noticed that he hasn’t posted much in awhile.
if you are implying that players were bought in the Raveling or Davis era you are wrong. there are always slights….a meal, transportation, but paying a recruit to come here…..never.
Dr. Tom took us to 3 sweet 16s. Fran, with longer time, has not.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
The George Raveling recruits + Dr. Tom X’s and O’s was magical
3rd, 3rd, and 4th with Raveling’s recruits.
Dr Tom also finished last in the Big Ten, something Lickliter didn’t even accomplish. This was during a time when Northwestern won eight conference games total in five seasons. Basically two free wins.
Dr. Tom had more luck in the tourney. Perhaps part of it was the style of play with the defensive pressure. A lot of it was simply matchups and luck.
Fran, to me, is as successful as Dr. Tom. He has to take a program in the dumpster and build it back up. He has flaws, no doubt. But, he's been successful at Iowa.
Fran, to me, is as successful as Dr. Tom. He has to take a program in the dumpster and build it back up. He has flaws, no doubt. But, he's been successful at Iowa.
Every Iowa fan I knew was happy to move on from Davis and excited about the Alford hire. It was a move seen by fans as an effort to take the next step. It was that bold move that fans wanted.
Tom Davis was (is) a great man and did an excellent job at Iowa (or as Tom constantly said, "terrific") and was highly respected. But, fans were getting bored with the "sameness' of his Iowa teams. Not getting top recruits, running the press all the time even against quicker teams, giving up a huge number of open 3's. It was Davis-fatigue, very similar to Ferentz and Fran fatigue. Fans thought Iowa could do better.
Then Bowlsby made Davis a lame-duck coach and he was hated for that. I went to an Iowa game and Bowlsby was there with his kids. The fans started a "Bowlsby sucks" chant that was cringe-worthy.
So, fans that lived through it and watched Davis by very successful at Drake while Iowa fans soured on Alford view it as a cautionary tale.
Tom Davis was (is) a great man and did an excellent job at Iowa (or as Tom constantly said, "terrific") and was highly respected. But, fans were getting bored with the "sameness' of his Iowa teams. Not getting top recruits, running the press all the time even against quicker teams, giving up a huge number of open 3's. It was Davis-fatigue, very similar to Ferentz and Fran fatigue. Fans thought Iowa could do better.
Then Bowlsby made Davis a lame-duck coach and he was hated for that. I went to an Iowa game and Bowlsby was there with his kids. The fans started a "Bowlsby sucks" chant that was cringe-worthy.
So, fans that lived through it and watched Davis by very successful at Drake while Iowa fans soured on Alford view it as a cautionary tale.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
I would argue under Davis we had largely tough matchups as we lost to #1 seeds five times (Duke, UNLV, UConn, AZ, Kentucky) and a #2 and #3 seed as well (AZ, Duke). NC State was a 5 seed and that went to double OT 🤦🏻♂️. Wake Forest was also a 5 seed that we lost to. Not too many upsets ahead of us as we always seemed to run into the favorite.
Always winning in the first round separates Dr Tom from Fran IMHO.
Both underachieved given the talent Davis inherited and Fran squandering Garza and the Murray’s is a tough pill.
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He passed... hence my RIP. Love or hate his posts he was an important piece of the Iowa basketball community for a very, very long time, not just on the message boards.
C
collison was pretty damned close to committing to Iowa, after Floyd left for the Bulls...then some weird circumstances (Raef LeFrentz’s girlfriend being from Iowa Falls) led to a “Kansas connection” and a rather unexpected promise to Collison from Roy Williams to “give him a look”...meanwhile Bowlsby was trying to hold on the “Iowa recruits” as much as allowed but to no avail. Iowa’s “no coach in place” status really hurt UIowa at this time. Hinrich was never a serious Iowa “get”...I would say Collison certainly was a serious target, though...and there was some mutual interest. Another Iowa high schooler was seriously considering an Iowa offer but went elsewhere because UIowa could not tell him who the “new coach” was gonna be before he needed to make his decision.
I agree with this 100%. Fran deserves a ton of credit for getting the program back to where it's at following Lickliter. However, I'm also convinced Fran has taken the program as far as it'll go under leadership. The amount of talent that's been squandered and the lack of post season success over the past few seasons is hard to stomach. I, for one, am ready for a change. I suppose it could happen, but I find it hard to believe I'll be yearning for the days of getting knocked out as a favorite in the first or second round of the tournament.
Yeah Collison was never coming to Iowa. I asked him at a camp in Urbandale circa 2001 and he laughed and said no way. It was either Kansas or Duke.
And without TD there to take GR’s recruits to the next level IOWA wouldn’t have had those years.
Exactly what did GR do at his next gig with the recruiting base he had the luxury of living in?
This exactly. I mean look at the how loaded those Michigan and Illinois and Iowa and Ohio St teams were? Guys stick around 4 years. Purdue was legit. Illinois and Michigan had 3-4 pros. The Utep team we beat with Tim Hardaway was damn good followed by Oklahoma who was great as well. Should we have blown a 16 point lead against UNLV? Clearly not. But damn the depth of teams back then was way better.
That's rather irrelevant to TDs story. We're talking about what happened vs what might have happened. TD inherited arguably the best collection of athletes of my lifetime, and did very well with them. The next ten years after they were gone was average to above average. Sometimes not even that.
I certainly see the merits of this point of view as well. Bottom line is, this is a winning is what matters occupation and Fran hasn't done that in the tourney.
The question is whether the ceiling of 1st and 2nd round NCAA exits is that of Iowa in general as a program or is more related to the coach at the helm of the program. I believe it's the former based on the history of the program but it is possible we land a coach that can take us to the "next level."
I guess the point I was trying to make is that those 1st round matchups under Dr. Tom may have been more favorable than the ones Fran has had in his 1st round games. There's also the "luck" factor which is extremely high when it comes tourney time. When you have two pretty evenly matched teams, (which is generally the case with Iowa coming in as an 8 or 9 seed a lot of the time,) luck plays a bigger role.
One could also say that Fran hasn't had elite guard play. Most of the elite players he's gotten have not been guards. Guards are important in the tourney, especially in close games against evenly matched teams like the ones we often find ourselves in. So, in that sense, you could say the lack of success falls on Fran's bad guard recruiting.
I personally judge Iowa basketball with the following criteria: The average year will be a bubble team/slightly above bubble team. The down year is missing the NCAA tourney and the ceiling years are a Sweet 16 run or beyond.
I'm not opposed to a change at the coaching position but do I think it's going to propel us to Sweet 16s? No. Do I think it could backfire like Lickliter? Yes. I think the latter is more likely than the former and that scares me.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
Maybe a little bit of luck, but each coach has enough appearances to flatten that out over time. I think you are onto something, as Fran's unwillingness to recruit smaller, quicker players in favor of "long and lean," seems to have hurt us especially in the tourney. Our lack of overall athleticism seems to have gone down in favor of a bit more skill (loose observation) vs Dr. Tom seemed to generally have a bit more overall athleticism and certainly better guard play.
Maybe some rationalization with Davis winning every first round and Fran losing most? I think the Oregon matchup was terrible, but Dr. Tom seemed to have a number of 7-8-9 type seeds after those first two years of elite performance, which certainly seemed very competitive (e.g. Texas, ETSU, etc.).
I agree that we are not that far off though I do think it is time for a change. I give Fran credit for digging us out of the ditch, but as you noted, even some sweet 16's would have put a much brighter shine on his legacy.
I will never understand the smaller/quicker guard thing with Fran as well as his unwillingness to put any emphasis on defense. In the end, the up tempo thing is palatable and the product was usually pretty good. We always seem to be a player or two from getting over the hump.
It would be difficult to replicate the Lickliter era, so not as worried about that. Something in the realm of Alford is certainly possible, which would be a net negative. But I am willing to roll the dice and try and push into the next tier.
All valid points. I will say that Fran WILL be gone if CHA attendance numbers don't tick upwards. Sweet 16 appearance(s) would cause an attendance spike but at the current success rate, he's destined to be fired.
There is definitely apathy around the program whether it is warranted or not.
Unless our NIL budget for basketball gets way bigger I’m not really sure what people think is going to happen. Fran has actually done a remarkable job developing and recruiting the right kids for our program. Have we underachieved in the tournament? Clearly. I mean Fran makes the tournament pretty much every year. Our blue bloods in the league are all clearly struggling right now. Not sure who is a guaranteed better hire than Fran.
In fairness the Big Ten is pretty bad the last few years overall. Maybe not as bad of a bottom feeler but overall I don't think the conference is close to as talented as during Davis years. Maybe I'm not remembering correct.
3rd, 3rd, and 4th with Raveling’s recruits.
Dr Tom also finished last in the Big Ten, something Lickliter didn’t even accomplish. This was during a time when Northwestern won eight conference games total in five seasons. Basically two free wins.
Can I ask if anyone ever thought Deplorable was Randy Larson?
His dad's family grew up in Boone. But yes, he played for his dad at Iowa Falls.
Ronnie Harmon openly admitted to getting money his last two years in college, over $50K. Maybe the basketball recruits were different, but I doubt it.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
He has done a good job, not sure I would say remarkable. But guys like Jok, Weezy, Murrays, Garza, Dev, White, etc. were definitely developed nicely, Garza and Keegan especially. I dont think anyone is expecting a guarantee but I for one am willing to accept the risk of a change. NIL is a fair point but it wont get worse with a change.
I wondered if he was doing ok. I really enjoyed his posts and perspective even when I didn't agree. RIP.
Interesting thought. Does make you wonder based on his provided bio and final posting timeline.
Correct answer. Bowlsby wanted Davis fired after he recruited Range (he had a criminal record) despite being told not to by Bowlsby. Equally stupid was the President at the time (Mary Sue Coleman), who insisted that Davis be allowed to finish his contract.
I'll admit I was not necessarily against getting rid of Davis, but it never should have been stretched out over a year because it killed our recruiting.
The one thing that you have to give Fran is that he has run the cleanest program among the coaches mentioned in this thread. Anyone claiming Dr Tom was squeaky clean needs to remember that Bruce Pearl was his right hand man 
Being scared of change is not good. You will NEVER improve in anything without taking some risks.
Could the next coach be bad? Sure. He may also be better, and lead the team to a few Sweet 16's (or more), something Fran has never done in his entire coaching career.
I am not saying Fran should be fired, but to think the next guy is more likely to be as bad as Lickliter than not is irrational, and...no offense...loser talk.
Used to agree with this 100% until NIL came along. Fran is a top 10 offensive coach in the country. Very few teams run better stuff than us. Defense clearly another story. However, going back to NIL, we basically are offering nothing. Now a new coach might be better, 50-50 chance, but without any money are we going to recruit any better? I doubt it. I’m not saying I don’t have Fran fatigue but we’re clearly a top half of the league team year in and out. Better than Maryland, Ohio St, Indiana, etc.
