Will Brands ever get the lineup right?

[cwobrien11]

So many guys like to say hawks are in the conversation to win it all, I can get the Angelo but idk what Gabe’s done to be in that conversation.

For me, it’s as much about the weight class as it is about Arnold. Arnold has only lost 4 matches this year and they’ve all been in OT (SV or TB).

The only top 10 guys coming back next year are Haines, Pinto, Norman, Thompson and Casella. I think Norman is going to have a hard time staying at 174 with his length and I expect him to move up to at least 184 next year. I also think Thompson looks to go back down to 165 next year. He bumped up this season after Sal Perrine got hurt. So Haines, Pinto, and Casella.

I think PK could be in the running for top 4-5 at 174 next year. If we assume that Arnold is better than Kennedy and not just incrementally better, the only person that just beats the brakes off of PK has been Haines. Gabe has much better defense than PK and their ability to bonus has been comparable this season…so we can call the offense a wash.

If the only opponent that’s a concern is Haines, that almost automatically puts him in discussion to compete for a NC at 174 next year. I’m not saying he will win it, but I think he’s definitely in the discussion there.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

So many guys like to say hawks are in the conversation to win it all, I can get the Angelo but idk what Gabe’s done to be in that conversation.

This is where I’m at. So far Gabe has looked great against weak competition and respectable against top tier guys. His defense is solid and keeps him in matches but his offense is non-existent against AA type guys.

 

[Bucky712]

133- Ayala
165 - Caliendo
174 - Arnold
184 - Ferrari
197 - Ferrari
HWT - Kueter

This group looks salty, I don't know if we can fill the other spots but maybe we can get an individual Big Ten champion next year. Sad now that's a hurdle, just getting an individual Big Ten champion.

 

[drunkengoat]

Gabe would’ve been 174 and finished top 3 at worse.

Bottom wrestling? There are no issues with strength training. Recruiting is about the only one as important as the lineup

Wait….wut? Gabe top 3? Nope. What about lack of offense in a lot of our guys?

 

[cwobrien11]

133- Ayala
165 - Caliendo
174 - Arnold
184 - Ferrari
197 - Ferrari
HWT - Kueter

This group looks salty, I don't know if we can fill the other spots but maybe we can get an individual Big Ten champion next year. Sad now that's a hurdle, just getting an individual Big Ten champion.

I saw you tried to sneak another Ferrari in there but I think that ship hath sailed. I think Deluca will come in and immediately make noise at 125. I think you’ll see Ludington start at 197 but I don’t really know how to project him.

 

[4net3sandbagger]

For me, it’s as much about the weight class as it is about Arnold. Arnold has only lost 4 matches this year and they’ve all been in OT (SV or TB).

The only top 10 guys coming back next year are Haines, Pinto, Norman, Thompson and Casella. I think Norman is going to have a hard time staying at 174 with his length and I expect him to move up to at least 184 next year. I also think Thompson looks to go back down to 165 next year. He bumped up this season after Sal Perrine got hurt. So Haines, Pinto, and Casella.

I think PK could be in the running for top 4-5 at 174 next year. If we assume that Arnold is better than Kennedy and not just incrementally better, the only person that just beats the brakes off of PK has been Haines. Gabe has much better defense than PK and their ability to bonus has been comparable this season…so we can call the offense a wash.

If the only opponent that’s a concern is Haines, that almost automatically puts him in discussion to compete for a NC at 174 next year. I’m not saying he will win it, but I think he’s definitely in the discussion there.

This line of thinking can sometimes get sketchy. Rocco Welsh will be returning next year. Granted, he may be 184, but there are always a few hammers that come out of nowhere. That's why I never liked the idea of banking on the weight clearing out. Just my opinion, but there always seems to be a few surprises every year.

 

[vhsalum]

And just so we're all clear. AJ coming back to the Hawks is a possibility.

JFC.

 

[johnyt9]

I saw you tried to sneak another Ferrari in there but I think that ship hath sailed. I think Deluca will come in and immediately make noise at 125. I think you’ll see Ludington start at 197 but I don’t really know how to project him.

*Deluxlca

 

[sabula]

I saw you tried to sneak another Ferrari in there but I think that ship hath sailed. I think Deluca will come in and immediately make noise at 125. I think you’ll see Ludington start at 197 but I don’t really know how to project him.

I see portals for 25 and 97, with Deluca and Ludington getting redshirt opportunities much like Angelo this year. Just my best guess.

 

[GoHawks1996]

And just so we're all clear. AJ coming back to the Hawks is a possibility.

JFC.

"We"?

Is that you talking with all your other personalities?

 

[Chips28]

Eh. I get it.

Gabe should have been at his best weight. Period. Nelson ended up getting hurt anyway. We need champs/placers - not to win dual meets and then have guys in the wrong weight come NCAAs.

Per the reality of the situation - We should have wrestled Angelo. He's no worse than the 3rd best guy at 184. Again - we need points in March. We keep saying "next year" - EVERY year.

Boom!

 

[vhsalum]

"We"?

Is that you talking with all your other personalities?

Yep.

 

[Chips28]

Just for fun let’s look at next yrs lineup

25 - Cruz?
33 - Drake
41 - Block, Peterson?
49 - Rathjen, Block?
57 - Estrada
65 - Caliendo
74 - Gabe
84 - Angelo
97 - ??? Lundington
Hwt - Ben

You’ve got major holes at 25, 41, 49, 57, 97. That is half the lineup. Don’t tell people this isn’t a major problem. 41 there is a little slack with the Block injury. But these are far too many gaping holes at a place like Iowa.

 

[Chips28]

Cruz got ridden for 6 minutes.

Gabe just lost in TB2 b/c he didn't get away.

Parco got ridden for like 3-4 minutes

bottom wrestling can absolutely be improved

Effort

 

[vhsalum]

Just for fun let’s look at next yrs lineup

25 - Cruz?
33 - Drake
41 - Block, Peterson?
49 - Rathjen, Estrada?
57 - Estrada
65 - Caliendo
74 - Gabe
84 - Angelo
97 - ??? Lundington
Hwt - Ben

You’ve got major holes at 25, 41, 49, 57, 97. That is half the lineup. Don’t tell people this isn’t a major problem. 41 there is a little slack with the Block injury. But these are far too many gaping holes at a place like Iowa.

No slack for "the Block injury" - he's a 149, and we paid for someone to take that spot.

 

[Chips28]

No slack for "the Block injury" - he's a 149, and we paid for someone to take that spot.

So he’s not injured? Just couldn’t make weight? Either way you were left with a hole

 

[vhsalum]

So he’s not injured? Just couldn’t make weight? Either way you were left with a hole

Just meaning that there shouldn't be some niceties towards the hole that is 141.

Block coming down was never a good idea. He was already pretty beat up, coming off a major injury - then you want him to cut well below his ideal weight?

 

[Chips28]

Just meaning that there shouldn't be some niceties towards the hole that is 141.

Block coming down was never a good idea. He was already pretty beat up, coming off a major injury - then you want him to cut well below his ideal weight?

I’m not disagreeing, I think my point stands the management of this team or roster is the biggest issue and outside of two years continues to be.

 

[vhsalum]

I’m not disagreeing, I think my point stands the management of this team or roster is the biggest issue and outside of two years continues to be.

It's not the "biggest" issue. We have a LOT of issues. And that's why we placed 3rd at Big Tens.

 

[Chips28]

It's not the "biggest" issue. We have a LOT of issues. And that's why we placed 3rd at Big Tens.

Well if you don’t have your ten best wrestling at their best weight that will always be the biggest issue.

 

[vhsalum]

Well if you don’t have your ten best wrestling at their best weight that will always be the biggest issue.

And yet. We were still the 2nd best team prior to this past weekend. Ton of issues.

 

[ff141]

It seems

I’m not disagreeing, I think my point stands the management of this team or roster is the biggest issue and outside of two years continues to be.

It seems like 125 and 141 were the only options they had to roll with. They brought in 3 g he makers from the portal and made attempts for the other 2 weights. I think that’s an A result. Hard to expect more. As far as 174. When Nelson gets to come back with no inside knowledge he would appear to be the guy pre injury otherwise I think gabe would gave stayed down. And I’m not going to question Ferrari redshirting. I get the he’s the best so he should go now crowd I just disagree. Plus if I’m him it’s 5 years of NIL and scholarship not 4…

 

[el dub]

Are you ok with TNT burning Estrada's shirt for a dual or two this year?

Sure. Who knows if/when he’ll ever see the line up on a regular basis again.

 

[MAGAman]

If Gabe was the best at 174, he would have been there. Why wouldn't he have challenged for his best weight?

Totally agree. He isnt beating PK

Top 3 at 74? No way!
Haines
Otoole
Hamitti
Karchla
Norman
Pinto
Braunagel
Id even thow simma from uni in there
No AA at 74

 

[ff141]

Totally agree. He isnt beating PK

Top 3 at 74? No way!
Haines
Otoole
Hamitti
Karchla
Norman
Pinto
Braunagel
Id even thow simma from uni in there
No AA at 74

I’m not sure he doesn’t beat PK. I think Nelson was the deciding factor.

 

[Psufan2427]

I saw you tried to sneak another Ferrari in there but I think that ship hath sailed. I think Deluca will come in and immediately make noise at 125. I think you’ll see Ludington start at 197 but I don’t really know how to project him.

I’m from NJ and coach high school here and Lundington is probably the most college ready prospect from NJ since Suriano , the kid can come in and AA immediately and he’ll be 20 by the start of next season so he’s already matured physically more then other freshman , get him on a lifting routine when he gets there in the summer and plug him into the line up and you’ll have your next 4x AA and eventual National champ …deluca would probably benefit from redshirting and just training a year with Ayala and Spencer, with a redshirt I think he’s a 4x AA

 

[KidDagger]

133- Ayala
165 - Caliendo
174 - Arnold
184 - Ferrari
197 - Ferrari
HWT - Kueter

This group looks salty, I don't know if we can fill the other spots but maybe we can get an individual Big Ten champion next year. Sad now that's a hurdle, just getting an individual Big Ten champion.

Where does PK go next year?

 

[Hammerhead02]

Effort

Which I give you an A for.

 

[KidDagger]

I’m from NJ and coach high school here and Lundington is probably the most college ready prospect from NJ since Suriano , the kid can come in and AA immediately and he’ll be 20 by the start of next season so he’s already matured physically more then other freshman , get him on a lifting routine when he gets there in the summer and plug him into the line up and you’ll have your next 4x AA and eventual National champ …deluca would probably benefit from redshirting and just training a year with Ayala and Spencer, with a redshirt I think he’s a 4x AA

He also almost lost to Chapman who was bumping up a weight..

 

[HawkeyeInKC]

Getting out from bottom isn’t technical and who exactly has been ridden out this year. Iowa isn’t getting out muscled and strength is more about effort and the individual than it is the program. If you would’ve said finishing shots and getting to offense you would have something. The lineup is a top 3 issue, not debatable

Not sure what you’ve been watching, but there has been plenty of guys getting ridden in big matches that they’re losing in. I’m shocked a few of the guys crossed their feet when they’re in neutral as well. Foot spacing needs work in the next two weeks.

 

[Psufan2427]

He also almost lost to Chapman who was bumping up a weight..

He also beat Chapman 10-4 earlier in the year , it was sectional title match at cranford with alot emotion and a weird match , Lundington school brick memorial has been a NJ powerhouse for 40 years and cranford had them on the ropes ,a Chapman win would’ve given his school the title instead Ludington came back and took him down with ease when he needed too and Brick Memorial then had 4 straight pins after to win by 1 , I wouldn’t judge him off one match

 

[Chips28]

And yet. We were still the 2nd best team prior to this past weekend. Ton of issues.

I disagree there are a ton of issues. However you cant properly evaluate without putting best team on the mat. Gotta know what you have to go get what you need.

 

[cwobrien11]

I see portals for 25 and 97, with Deluca and Ludington getting redshirt opportunities much like Angelo this year. Just my best guess.

I don’t think they need to portal at 125. It’s a weight class that young guys can contribute almost immediately and Deluca is also a top 20 pfp kid.

Ludington is also a top 20 pfp guy although I could see them bringing in a 197 pounder if the right one is available just to give him an extra year to adjust.

 

[acuhawk]

And just so we're all clear. AJ coming back to the Hawks is a possibility.

If I'm Ajs camp I'm asking for a meeting with Tom and Beth. I would offer the following:
1. No phone
2. No social media
3. No interviews
4. Live with Buchanan
5. Never say the words I or ME.

If all 5 of those are agreed to then I'd be closer to on board, but still would rather someone like Elam. Unless AJ would go hwt and Elam 97. In my opinion Ben is going back to doing both sports. That puts us in a tight spot at hwt. Just losing so much mat time, and odds of not being healthy after a full season of fball is legit concerns. Plus no hwt well into January.

It will be an interesting offseason.

 

[SPOONER]

I’m not disagreeing, I think my point stands the management of this team or roster is the biggest issue and outside of two years continues to be.

They should have had better wrestlers at 125 and 141. That's fair to say. But the issues are deeper than that and it's fairly amazing you don't see it.

He also almost lost to Chapman who was bumping up a weight..

Focusing on a win against a good wrestler and ignoring all his other accolades is a weird way to evaluate a guy.

Totally agree. He isnt beating PK

Top 3 at 74? No way!
Haines
Otoole
Hamitti
Karchla
Norman
Pinto
Braunagel
Id even thow simma from uni in there
No AA at 74

Norman just went 2-2 at the ACCs with a couple of losses to guys in their 20s. Simma has 13 losses this season. PK also handled Braunagel in the dual.

 

[SPOONER]

If I'm Ajs camp I'm asking for a meeting with Tom and Beth. I would offer the following:
1. No phone
2. No social media
3. No interviews
4. Live with Buchanan
5. Never say the words I or ME.

If all 5 of those are agreed to then I'd be closer to on board, but still would rather someone like Elam. Unless AJ would go hwt and Elam 97. In my opinion Ben is going back to doing both sports. That puts us in a tight spot at hwt. Just losing so much mat time, and odds of not being healthy after a full season of fball is legit concerns. Plus no hwt well into January.

It will be an interesting offseason.

Dude you may as well ask him to stop breathing. Not even worth a discussion.

And why would you do that to poor Buchanan? What has he ever done to you?

 

[acuhawk]

Dude you may as well ask him to stop breathing. Not even worth a discussion.

And why would you do that to poor Buchanan? What has he ever done to you?

Those were just conversation starters for fantasyland which is the off-season.

 

[Sdwrestler_20]

If I'm Ajs camp I'm asking for a meeting with Tom and Beth. I would offer the following:
1. No phone
2. No social media
3. No interviews
4. Live with Buchanan
5. Never say the words I or ME.

If all 5 of those are agreed to then I'd be closer to on board, but still would rather someone like Elam. Unless AJ would go hwt and Elam 97. In my opinion Ben is going back to doing both sports. That puts us in a tight spot at hwt. Just losing so much mat time, and odds of not being healthy after a full season of fball is legit concerns. Plus no hwt well into January.

It will be an interesting offseason.

Cruel and unusual punishment for Buchanan.

 

[johnyt9]

If I'm Ajs camp I'm asking for a meeting with Tom and Beth. I would offer the following:
1. No phone
2. No social media
3. No interviews
4. Live with Buchanan
5. Never say the words I or ME.

If all 5 of those are agreed to then I'd be closer to on board, but still would rather someone like Elam. Unless AJ would go hwt and Elam 97. In my opinion Ben is going back to doing both sports. That puts us in a tight spot at hwt. Just losing so much mat time, and odds of not being healthy after a full season of fball is legit concerns. Plus no hwt well into January.

It will be an interesting offseason.

does SB want to live with AJ?!? why is he getting the short end of the stick

edit: I see now everyone made the same joke

 

[vhsalum]

If I'm Ajs camp I'm asking for a meeting with Tom and Beth. I would offer the following:
1. No phone
2. No social media
3. No interviews
4. Live with Buchanan
5. Never say the words I or ME.

If all 5 of those are agreed to then I'd be closer to on board, but still would rather someone like Elam. Unless AJ would go hwt and Elam 97. In my opinion Ben is going back to doing both sports. That puts us in a tight spot at hwt. Just losing so much mat time, and odds of not being healthy after a full season of fball is legit concerns. Plus no hwt well into January.

It will be an interesting offseason.

A-fvcking-greed on all of the above.

Seeing Teemer makes me scared to take Elam. And i'm against bringing AJ in. Juice is not worth the squeeze, even if he wins 2 titles. Because when he explodes its going to cost people jobs.

And yes to Ben. There's just not enough time to get in shape if he goes back to football.