Wins and Recruiting

[dcgohawks]

I'll put this question out for discussion and invite some of those who know the realities of recruiting better than me to respond: What impact do wins like those Iowa had recently over Illinois and Indiana have on luring kids into the program?

I would think that at the very least it helps convince some of the more elite players in Chicago, and Indiana (two areas Iowa is obviously keen on drawing from) to take the program more seriously. Iowa did not just win those games; they played extremely well.

It also helps McCaffrey and his assistants make a more convincing case to high school players: we're on the way up. Those other programs in your backyard, well....not so much (even if the Iowa folks don't directly say that).

Or, maybe specific teams is overrated. Maybe high school players tend to look more at the overall -- is the program making the tournament consistently, what are my chances for playing time, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

It might help too that our players looked better coached and we had a better game-plan.

 

[DanL53]

For starters:

Helps to know a coach isn't going to get canned. Recruits Anunoby and Morgan at Indiana might be a tad nervous right about now.

I'm no expert but I think one can extrapolate the positives from there on up.

 

[irunlikeAcieEarl]

It's irrelevant if a coach can't sell a program, but as a player I would think the bigger thing would be, does a program consistently make the NCAA tournament. Kids want to experience that

 

[Hawkeye2222]

winning certainly helps and yes beating certain teams help even more,, the biggest factor though is the team playing in the post season and then is it getting better,

the last 3 seasons IA has finished in the upper half of the BT.
6th alone 9-9
6th alone 9-9
anywhere from 3rd to 6th, 11-?

that is what they look at even playing in the NIT helps
2013 reaching the NIT championship
2014 NCAA's
2015 to be determined but it should be the NCAA's again

all this after not going to any postseason play since the 05-06 season. getting these out of Chicago and more importantly Moss who is a starter for Simeon HS one of the top HS in Chicago was a huge recruiting coup for Fran stars with standing. although ESPN list Moss as a 4*

the other Chicago prospect Hutton is another coup for Fran out of Chicago a city IA has had very little success in getting players out of, Hutton is listed as a 4* by 247, you have to remember Burke was rated a 3* by Rivals and 147th overall and a 4* and 73rd overall by ESPN and Burke ended up a 1st rnd draft pick after his SO season, another PG that Fran was trying to get in that 2011 class when he got GO, AW and JO.

 

[combes]

Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Originally posted by combes:
Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

Is that because Iowa has really struggled on the road this season with teams just like Illinois?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

Originally posted by relishingwinning18:

Originally posted by combes:
Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

Is that because Iowa has really struggled on the road this season with teams just like Illinois?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Or that Illinois is normally a well coached team?

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by combes:
Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

I'd say single games are getting pretty important to Crean's coaching.

And I hope Groce is starting to feel a sense of urgency as well.

Both these guys are loaded with star talent and yet so on the bubble they smell like soap!

The ultimate requirement to be a good recruiter, is to have a job.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

combes what was Illinois excuse last year when they lost to IA @ home, and by the way combes, IA finished this season 6-3 on the road in the BT.

 

[Colorado_Hawk]

Year to year wins may help a bit but nothing trumps prestige which takes decades to build. Coach about to get fired? Bad record? Sanctions? Doesn't matter if you are Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, Indiana, Kansas, UCLA. Kids will always go to those schools regardless of other factors and almost always choose those schools over us (unless they are in state) regardless of our record. Next biggest factor over school prestige is coach prestige. Kids will go anywhere to play for a name coach or salesmen coach with personality. See Larry Brown.

 

[jdv77]

Combes is right, I think, that single head to head matchups don't affect individual recruiting battles much. Direction of a program certainly matters, though. It would help Iowa immensely to have a good showing in the B1G tournament and to win a game or two in the Big Dance.

Combes is also right that Groce isn't nearly in as difficult a situation as Crean. Groce will have an issue in 2-3 years if he keeps having 18-19 win seasons and missing the tournament, because he has enough talent on the roster to do more than that.

Crean has (at best) one more season to do something significant (making it past the sweet 16), because the way he runs his program is distastefully disloyal to the players he recruits over. While this isn't a single game issue, it is a big problem for him. The problem with next year is that he isn't losing the worst players on his roster. If Williams and Ferrell go pro, and that is what makes room for the new signees, then he is trying to replace this year's stars with freshmen.

 

[ichawk24]

You build a program like a building: one brick at a time. Each game, each practice, each recruiting trip.

Those wins are nice bricks that have been added. They help. But they're just a couple of bricks.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Crean is also battling that the way his team plays is not endearing him to his fan base. Basically trying to outscore opponents is not palatable to Indiana fans. There was open booing during the Iowa game in the second half when Indiana spent the whole shot clock standing around doing nothing, and hoping for Ferrell or Blackmon to bail them out by going 1 on 5.

 

[DodgerHawki]

The answer is it depends on the player being recruited. Fran has done fairly well with in-state kids he wants (Woodbury, Oglesby, Uthoff, Pemsl) and that will be only reinforced with more winning.

The out-of-state kids from Illinois or other Midwest locations aren't going to all of a sudden spurn the home-state schools for Iowa. But perhaps it leads to getting in on more kids from the get-go, which increases your opportunities to land a good player from Ohio or Illinois that OSU or Illinois can't offer due to scholarship limits or already having a player at the recruit's position.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

combes knows recruiting and is probably right. More generally those wins are components of a much more attractive product than McCaffery and staff had at the same time last year.

 

[TheHawkeyeDudeAbides]

Originally posted by DodgerHawki:
The answer is it depends on the player being recruited. Fran has done fairly well with in-state kids he wants (Woodbury, Oglesby, Uthoff, Pemsl) and that will be only reinforced with more winning.

The out-of-state kids from Illinois or other Midwest locations aren't going to all of a sudden spurn the home-state schools for Iowa. But perhaps it leads to getting in on more kids from the get-go, which increases your opportunities to land a good player from Ohio or Illinois that OSU or Illinois can't offer due to scholarship limits or already having a player at the recruit's position.

Still, the downward trend of Mizzou and Illinois lately with Iowa's upward surge should open some Midwest doors to Fran. Hoping Iowa can win at least one, if not two, games in the tournament this year. Recruiting the 2016 class will improve with tournament wins. Iowa may not land any top 25 next year but maybe a top 50 plus a couple of top 100 recruits.

Sounds like Iowa is happy at PG for next season and Moss can play PG in case of need. Looking more like a transfer big is the plan to aid Woodbury and offer more early PT to higher quality bigs in 2016 class. Hoping Iowa can land Tyler Cook of St. Louis. He is good friends of 2017 MO HS talent Michael Porter (son of Iowa WBB alum Lisa Becker). Mizzou BB is in a major decline and HC Kim Anderson looks like he is in over his head in the SEC. Imagine Mizzou back in today's Big 12.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

Illinois does not get the top kids out of Chicago, this has been shown time and time again. as for top 25 players who cares give me the players that want to play and stay for 4 years is the way to build a program, getting 50-150 players can and do win at a high level.

don't think so, just look at teams like Butler, Creighton, WSU, Gonzaga even Wisconsin only has 1 top 25 player and he was a instate recruit. Kaminskie was a 3* on one site and a 4* on another, Wisconsin may have 1 other 4* player on the roster and 2 at most, Bo has taken kids then RS'd them and they stay 5 years, Uthoff was the only one that left and he came back to his home state,

one of IA's top target is SF Santos a 4* top 100 by Rivals in the 2016 class, and he can play the 1-2 and 3, just like Marble.

 

[hawk-i bob]

Originally posted by DanL53:

Originally posted by combes:
Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

I'd say single games are getting pretty important to Crean's coaching.

And I hope Groce is starting to feel a sense of urgency as well.

Both these guys are loaded with star talent and yet so on the bubble they smell like soap!

The ultimate requirement to be a good recruiter, is to have a job.

+1... loaded with talent.....I'm telling you we've been down this road 15 years ago....you can recruit all the talent in the world...they still have to be coached & play as a team.

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by hawk-i bob:

Originally posted by DanL53:

Originally posted by combes:
Teams usually look better coached at home. Iowa didn't have to play at Illinois.

Single games don't affect recruiting much.

I'd say single games are getting pretty important to Crean's coaching.

And I hope Groce is starting to feel a sense of urgency as well.

Both these guys are loaded with star talent and yet so on the bubble they smell like soap!

The ultimate requirement to be a good recruiter, is to have a job.

+1... loaded with talent.....I'm telling you we've been down this road 15 years ago....you can recruit all the talent in the world...they still have to be coached & play as a team.



That's why Fran is such a dangerous coach. Look at the teams we're beating and the guys we are using to do it.

When Fran starts signing more of his primary targets, Iowa is going to be just what Tim Miles called us...only bigger and more powerful...A MACHINE.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

You never know what is going to happen with recruiting, but I think Iowa is starting to turn heads and some top recruits are at least taking a look. If we can beat NW, win a couple of games in the BTT, and then win a game or two in the dance, it will be hard not to hear positive comments about the program. Iowa is already getting more and more mention from the talking heads as a possible difficult match up in the tourney. It is time for the team to continue their run and put an end to the "Iowa has no toughness" crap that has been following them for the past couple of years.

There are a lot of great recruits every year coming out of Chicago, and Iowa City isn't much farther away than Champagne. Fran has now established some connections that should give Iowa a real shot at signing more recruits from schools like Simeon. Beating OSU twice and having Aaron White develop into a first-team B1G player (I know it isn't official) also have to help recruiting from Ohio, which also produces a large number of high-level recruits. Recruiting is a lot about momentum. If Iowa can finish the season and the 2015 recruiting class with a quality big, and it should be easier to sell the program to the top PG that we need in the 2016 class...

Beat the Mildcats!