I just watched the replay on BTN. Did anyone see the ref call the Wisconsin HWT for stalling? The PSU guy avoided wrestling for almost the whole match, and the ref dings the Wisc guy. I could see the new rules being a mess I am not knocking the PSU guy because he was giving up 80 pounds but that is a terrible call.
Wisc vs PSU stall warning
- Thread starter gablefan73
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Kind of like when Ian Miller and Bryce Steiert wrestled in Vegas, 19 seconds into the match and stalling was called............wait for it...........on MILLER who was attacking.
Steiert was not stalling and neither was Miller. 19 seconds into a match.....
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/8...ate-university-vs-bryce-steiert-northern-iowa
Steiert was not stalling and neither was Miller. 19 seconds into a match.....
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/8...ate-university-vs-bryce-steiert-northern-iowa
The new rules give the refs even more human influence. They need to go with the push out rule since they are going to be penalizing more and more guys who initiate the action.
I really get what you're saying, but I gotta say, I like the call. And, I love the new rule. It seems pretty clear the rule is definitely encouraging more wrestling and less OB. Steiert appeared to be making the effort to circle back in and keep wrestling. Miller was simply pushing at THAT particular moment. I worry about Iowa guys doing the exact same thing and getting called on it. Gotta at least make it look like you're lowering your level to score or trying to keep the action from going OB. Iowa seems to be very well coached on this, but it's also in their makeup to not have their back to OB. I would think solid hand fighting and moving your opponent to the edge and then hitting a low risk double off the mat would play right in Iowa's hands. You either put yourself in position to score without risking much and also increase the likelihood for the stall call against your opponent.
I agree there seems to be more action (from the little I have been able to watch) and that is a positive. However, sometimes understanding the action needs to come into place.
Look at the year Nickerson got beat in the semi's as a sophomore when he was called for stalling in rideouts while he was riding. Makes no sense to call the top guy for stalling when his only job is to not let him get away.
Im sure for every example like the video above there are many other examples of better calls. Just found it funny Miller was called for stalling and I was pulling for Steiert in that match.
Look at the year Nickerson got beat in the semi's as a sophomore when he was called for stalling in rideouts while he was riding. Makes no sense to call the top guy for stalling when his only job is to not let him get away.
Im sure for every example like the video above there are many other examples of better calls. Just found it funny Miller was called for stalling and I was pulling for Steiert in that match.
Has anyone actually watched the HWT match for Wisconsin vs PSU? I hope we never have that official in the big matches.
I could agree with that, AF, but we all know stalling won't be called consistently or frequently enough -- ESPECIALLY when it really counts. The higher the stakes, the more the whistles will get swallowed, and the more controversy will ensue. I guarantee it. Does anyone have any doubt that these calls won't be made nearly as often at Nationals -- especially when the chips are down and time is running out? Some refs will step up and make the calls, but I have absolutely no doubt that some won't -- and therein lies the problem. There will never be sufficient consistency, IMO. That's why I think the rules committee should put an end to the inconsistency and institute a push-out rule beginning next season. I see absolutely no downside to a push-out rule in folkstyle.
I agree with you but with a little tweak. Instead of awarding a point for the push out make it a stall call. Make it clear as mud if you back off the mat that's stalling.
I much prefer freestyle over folk but a point in freestyle is nothing. A point in folkstyle could be life or death.
I'd be alright with that, Omaha. That said, after the first stalling call, it would be a point for the aggressor for each push-out, anyway. Still, I'd be totally fine with that.
Also, I agree that a point in folkstyle tends to be a bigger deal than in freestyle. At the same time, I think that fact is an indictment on folkstyle in its current form, because it should be an exciting, high-scoring sport where one point here or there isn't such a big deal. As you say, though, with so many 2-1, 3-2-type matches, one point tends to be a bigger deal.
Furthermore, with the 4-point NF rule, which I like, scoring will tend to be more, and one point here or there should be easier to overcome this year. Speaking of that 4-point NF, I think it will be huge for Brooks this year. We've already seen him rack up back points with his tilts. I think Sammy will produce more bonus points at Nationals (and throughout the year) in the earlier rounds as a result of that rule.
Also, I agree that a point in folkstyle tends to be a bigger deal than in freestyle. At the same time, I think that fact is an indictment on folkstyle in its current form, because it should be an exciting, high-scoring sport where one point here or there isn't such a big deal. As you say, though, with so many 2-1, 3-2-type matches, one point tends to be a bigger deal.
Furthermore, with the 4-point NF rule, which I like, scoring will tend to be more, and one point here or there should be easier to overcome this year. Speaking of that 4-point NF, I think it will be huge for Brooks this year. We've already seen him rack up back points with his tilts. I think Sammy will produce more bonus points at Nationals (and throughout the year) in the earlier rounds as a result of that rule.
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Wrestling doesn't need to be high scoring for it to be exciting. Dake vs taylor wasn't high scoring and it was an amazing match. High score doesn't automatically mean great match. I think we've all seen some 20-19 matches that honestly were not great wrestling. I watched one at our local little kids meet last weekend that end 19-14 and trust me it wasn't exciting.
True, but most reasonable people would agree that more scoring generally correlates to more excitement. Banach/Schultz was high-scoring, and one of the most exciting match in collegiate wrestling history, for example. I'd estimate that the higher-scoring match is more exciting than the lower-scoring match about 99% of the time.
The fact is that we see far too many matches won on a riding time point, an escape, etc., with guys using stall rides and guys tying up and milking the clock in neutral. More offense generally means more scoring, more scoring almost always means more action, and more action pretty much always means more excitement.
I will sum it in one word what they're trying to avoid. Tsirtsis
Good lord. What a horrific call. Yep, we need the pushout.
The current rule is that if you back off the mat it is stalling, and only stalling. It is a point on the second stall.
I'm well aware of the rules and how they are scored.
You are incorrect though. The current rule can be called three different ways if someone goes off the mat
-he was pushed out and not allowed back in-stalling offense(stupid)
-he is avoiding wrestling and went oob-stalling defensive wrestler
-continuous action-no call
I didn't say you were incorrect, nor that you didn't know the rules. I am also well aware of the rules and how they are scored. I said it for clarification purposes.
I didn't say the more ambiguous "go off the mat", but instead "back off the mat", that is, I meant the verb's action indicates the wrestler's choice. Therefore, I was not incorrect. We're probably "speaking past one another" here.
