"Woke" Culture is who we thought they were...
- Thread starter hawkland14
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I will go out on a limb and say you support liberal groups that shut down free speech across the country at colleges but yet equate the Trump admin to a autocratic system. There is one side in this country that is trying to oppress constitutional freedoms.
The problem with limbs is they get cut off. But I would love to see you out there.
Here is the thing. . . we and the entire western world sold our principles out when we started selling to China and including them in the community. It used to be that going to China was like going to North Korea. Very few people would consider doing it. But China never changed yet somehow we changed our view on this. We send tourists to China, we gave them an Olympics, we sell them movies and everything.
So the NBA and several of these tech companies that do business with China. They all sold out their principles for money same as the Republicans sold out their principles to Trump for power. All should be ashamed, but now they are doubling down on keeping the Chinese government happy.
Conservatives are well within their right to call them out for boycotting states over bathroom bills and acting like that was some sort of big human rights abuse while kowtowing to China and all of their human rights abuses, even to go so far as to quash individuals speaking out against China's actions.
There are two sides trying to oppress constitutional freedoms but I guess you could say that those two sides really act very similar in how they go about their suppression campaigns so go ahead and feel free to call them the same side.
I don’t deny this but this is not a condemnation of the NBA in isolation. This is Cons condemning something (in macro terms) for which Libs have been expressing condemnation for quite a while.
Our entire system is selling out for the dollar.
That said, my argument is that dealing with civil rights issues at home and dealing with them abroad are quite different. When the NBA conducts its global business and outreach it is very much promoting our more honorable values. Skepticism that it is all for money is fine, but it ignores that there are humans on the ground—humans like my former player now friend—doing very human things.
Rather than act all ridiculous and emotional that “oh look at how woke the nba is now!”—a better conversation might be centered on the question of “how has the nba’s popularity in China affected the politics of its people—has it? Could an intellectual argument be made that Hong Kong’s demonstrations might be abstractly related to the impact of American things like the nba becoming prominent in Asian culture?”
In other words, if the hope is that American things like the nba promote American values (while chasing dollars), then maybe it’s working. This shit doesn’t happen smooth sailing all the way. There are setbacks and disagreements and arguments along the way. Marriages of such different cultures and histories and politics are going to be tenuous, maybe even ill-fated.
This is Cons desperate for a ribbon, this overreacting. The nba has been right much more than wrong in favor of civil and human rights, wokeness as it is now derogatorily characterized. And this story is just getting started.
But go ahead, Cons, hyperventilate your way to the front of the room to grab a ribbon if that’s what you need.
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Yeah bull, every time I have expressed my discomfort with us being cool about China it's been libs who have attacked that position. I have said that I wouldn't visit China because of their human rights abuses and that I wouldn't watch the Olympics in China for same reason. Libs attacked that position. Not cons.
Libs are not the ones uncomfortable with this.
Hong Kong's demonstrations are because they where ruled by the Brits up til the 90's and are used to having their human rights respected. Not cause the NBA came in.
And I think it's worthwhile to point out the hypocrisy. The NBA dumped some states because of bathroom bills eggs on by liberals. But China kills people, jails them for speaking out against the government and the NBA then proceeds to kick fans out of a game they paid to attend for speaking out against China.
NBA is cool with speaking out against police shootings and racism (all very valid) but speaking out against what China is doing is a no no.
Yeah it's not doing any good. We've been in China for years promoting our values. They are still a one party state and that is not changing.
Hong Kong is used to a little more freedom because they where under the Brits. They are the ones out there risking their freedom and their lives. NBA's too scared to risk a revenue source and backs the oppressors.
You get no applause from me for pushing good things when you have nothing to lose but folding when money or power is on the line.
NBA is no different from Republicans who tut-tut Trump's actions but won't stand up to him with their votes. They hate the trade war but won't take action to end it. They don't like that he's asking foreign governments to investigate Biden but that's not an impeachable offense.
It's amazing that the people with the most money and power in the world have the least freaking courage. NBA stands up to China they are still rich. These Senators stand up to Trump and all that happens is they might lose re-election. They also are still rich.
If you can relate to their cowardice on this, you would be someone who in earlier years might oppose slavery but upon finding out you've inherited a bunch of slaves won't free them because they are too profitable, worth too much money. That would be moral cowardice in and of itself. It's even worse if you are someone who's already rich and you display that level of cowardice.
NBA is even more greedy and self interested then Donald Trump and that is really freaking hard.
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All good points. I have no recollection of threads about China, but I’ll take your word.
All I’m saying is there is a lot of quick, knee-jerk rushes to judgment here, reeking of course of Cons desperation for ribbons. Of course this looks hypocritical, but damn, let it play out a bit. Are there not more interesting conversations to be had as a result of this, such as implicated by you?
Should we do business with China at all? Is it better to be apolitical at home and abroad such that threat of hypocrisy becomes less likely? In other words, NBA is now bad for standing up for its fellow citizens because its global politics (not easily navigated, obviously) is imperfectly executed?
I look at it this way. If we’re going to live in a global word with all the political and cultural complexities therein, stuff like this is going to happen. If we want to spread American values, naturally concessions have to be made. We do business with anybody and everybody as long as it benefits us financially. Should we stop altogether? Should NBA, which is viewed around the world as a very good ambassador for America, just cease global outreach and business?
If we’re going to simplify this thing, with all of its complexity and nuance, to emotional cries of “hypocrisy!!” then we’re doing so ignorant of how this makes us all hypocrites, not to mention base emotional goofs.
This isn't a liberals vs conservatives thing,... This is simply calling out the NBA for getting publicly caught doing the same thing that practically every other US business has been doing for the past 20 years,... The NBA and many other corporate entities are exactly the type of organizations that should stake out an honest position on this,... I suspect that the average Chinese citizen doesn't really care what Washington says about Beijing. But when foreign businesses like the NBA, Apple, Nike and Google begin shine a light on China's activities they will take notice.....
Quick knee jerk reactions or calling a hypocrite a hypocrite? Steve Kerr(Mr. Woke) is prime example 'A'. Are you say it is hard to say that a country that harvests human organs is bad is a complex issue? Really?
Its not hard to say countries that are against democracy are bad. This isn't hard.
I'm not all that bothered by doing business with China but if doing business with China means you have to kowtow and go out of your way to prevent messages that are offensive to their government then tell them to go sodomize themselves. Maybe standing up to the government and having the government force them off the air thereby upsetting their citizens might be a good thing too.
And I don't care about who wins ribbons. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. They cared so much about people getting to use the bathrooms of their choice but not only couldn't be bothered to care but also assisted the oppressors when it came to people being jailed for protesting their government.
This isn't a complex thing at all. It's not a hard decision at all. NBA showed it's principles are all about money.
You want the Republicans to have principles, call out others when they show a similar lack of principles. Don't try to couch it like it's a complex or difficult situation. No one was going to be in poverty if the NBA told China to stick it. They where all going to be rich anyways.
In fact screw it, this is worse then the Republicans. Because those Republicans could actually lose their power by standing up to Trump. The NBA wasn't going to not be rich, they where just going to be not quite as rich. They folded anyways.
Which is fine for the NBA to be all about money. But don't act like your God in the process when it comes to being on the cool side of a political issue.
I don't think it's fine for anyone to be all about money. When it means forgetting principles it's not fine. It's even worse when you could stand up for those principles and still be wealthy.
And I certainly don't care about being on the cool side. I care about being on the right side. If I wanted to be on the cool side I'd be pro-choice, pro-euthanasia and anti-religious freedom.
