WOW!

[grapplefann]

Cael is 5 steps ahead, keep chasing the clues Hawks. In the meantime, a decade of dominance has robbed your fan base of banners and titles leaving many of you guys to just b*tch and moan.

Having more money isn't 5 steps ahead. It's just more money. There will always be someone or some group who tries to buy their way ahead in life. Happens everywhere. Always has. That someone drops 5 million onto a wrestling club is an eye-opener, but it makes me wonder how far that money could have gone into saving or originating other Div. I wrestling programs.
Yes, the Hawkeye fan base is as cantankerous as ever, but some of us have way too much self-restraint to write trash on your message board the way you do on ours.

 

[grapplefann]

LOL like I care about your opinion. I've seen your posts. You may not like my contrarian views on this subject, but this thread is making Iowa fans look like weak sauce. That isn't trolling, but the advice of a PSU fan who respects your fanbase enough to criticize when warranted. If that deserves an ignore, so be it.

If you really respected the Iowa fan base, you wouldn't post here.

 

[cidhawkeye]

LOL like I care about your opinion. I've seen your posts. You may not like my contrarian views on this subject, but this thread is making Iowa fans look like weak sauce. That isn't trolling, but the advice of a PSU fan who respects your fanbase enough to criticize when warranted. If that deserves an ignore, so be it.

You care so little that you respond, genius move. Weak sauce is right in your wheel house so you would recognize it. You have been living it quite a bit lately. Back to the thread....

 

[FD_HWC]

No need for Bob Lee unless you can't read. 990 forms are open for the public to view. If you look at the NLWC 2015 990 you will see total expenses of 630,283 and of that 313,512 was paid out as compensation to disqualified persons(lookup the meaning if you want). Total revenue for year 2015 was 372,072. 372,072 is not zero

Just got out of the Sylvan Learning Center which allowed me to read the 990 forms successfully....I even got a sticker! I read the $372k of revenue you mention above was a result of contributions or grants, Investment income, and other revenue. Line 9 under the revenue section " Program service Revenue" is 0 for 2015 and 2014, but has $613k of expenses in Part II section 4a. Don't worry Horraybeer I think Sylvan has math and logic courses on a two for one deal

 

[TakedownWins]

He's a Minnesota fan. Most of this board has him on ignore

Wrong! I bring substance to this place. You don't have me on ignore. (((hugs))) to you friend!

 

[horraybeer]

Just got out of the Sylvan Learning Center which allowed me to read the 990 forms successfully....I even got a sticker! I read the $372k of revenue you mention above was a result of contributions or grants, Investment income, and other revenue. Line 9 under the revenue section " Program service Revenue" is 0 for 2015 and 2014, but has $613k of expenses in Part II section 4a. Don't worry Horraybeer I think Sylvan has math and logic courses on a two for one deal

Get your money back for the math and logic classes and then spend that on an accounting class. The 2 for 1 should do wonders cause that might get you past assets vs. liabilities. Unfortunately reading comp. is all on
you.

 

[TakedownWins]

No doubt you've heard of "Stockholm syndrome". I believe the medical term for this particular behavior is "Paterno syndrome".

Stockholm Syndrome is a pretty good collaboration of musicians:

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Are there any NCAA regulations limiting how much athletes can be paid for working at summer camps?

If not, isn't this a direct way of bypassing the 9.9 scholarship limit?

How do the other sports such as football handle this? I'm sure if athletes can be paid for camps/clinics then football programs for sure would have been using that as a bypass years ago.

I am not criticizing PSU or any other program. I'm genuinely curious how this works and what the NCAA rules are on it.

If there is no limit to what an athlete can be paid for coaching at a summer camp, then wtf is the point of a 9.9 scholarship limit if you could just pay the athlete $25k each summer?

 

[chuck285]

So the NLWC has assets that more than double the next 20 clubs combined.

Look at all that money. Cael is truly a great wrestling coach.

And having "FUN" paid by the club..

 

[dicemen99]

Are there any NCAA regulations limiting how much athletes can be paid for working at summer camps?

If not, isn't this a direct way of bypassing the 9.9 scholarship limit?

How do the other sports such as football handle this? I'm sure if athletes can be paid for camps/clinics then football programs for sure would have been using that as a bypass years ago.

I am not criticizing PSU or any other program. I'm genuinely curious how this works and what the NCAA rules are on it.

If there is no limit to what an athlete can be paid for coaching at a summer camp, then wtf is the point of a 9.9 scholarship limit if you could just pay the athlete $25k each summer?

By NCAA rules, compensation at things like camps is limited to the prevailing rate. While that may give some wiggle room, it's highly doubtful that $25k per summer would pass muster with the NCAA for a few camps.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

By NCAA rules, compensation at things like camps is limited to the prevailing rate. While that may give some wiggle room, it's highly doubtful that $25k per summer would pass muster with the NCAA for a few camps.

Prevailing rate? Meaning market rate?

So we know PSU spent ~600k on camps/clinics. Do we know what amount was paid to each athlete and how much they were paid for each individual camp?

Or is that not required to be disclosed? Or is it only disclosed to NCAA, but not disclosed to public?

600k does seem like a lot of expenses for summer camps. What's the breakdown on that? How many camps is that?

Again, not claiming PSU is breaking any rules. I'm just clueless on how this works and what the regulations and requirements are.

 

[OILCHECKER]

PSU hasn't gotten all of their top targets the past few years (it only seems like it). You would think that if PSU offered a top stud only a 10% ride with the promise of making thousands of dollars working summer camps and then making several thousands of dollars a year wrestling for their club after graduation, that if those kids decided to go elsewhere that they would have spilled the beans on what they were offered and if anything unethical was occurring, the other schools would report it.. To my knowledge, no one has done this as of yet. Maybe someone should ask Spencer Lee what kind of sales pitch they gave him?

I hate Cael and PSU as much as any Hawkeye fan, only because of how well they are doing. And I agree that having 10x more money than other clubs is a huge advantage. Do I suspect they are walking right up to the line of what is/isn't allowed? Probably. But I don't suspect they are really doing anything beyond that and they are simply finding more resources and using them better than all other schools........... and they have an excellent coaching staff.

 

[dicemen99]

Prevailing rate? Meaning market rate?

So we know PSU spent ~600k on camps/clinics. Do we know what amount was paid to each athlete and how much they were paid for each individual camp?

Or is that not required to be disclosed? Or is it only disclosed to NCAA, but not disclosed to public?

600k does seem like a lot of expenses for summer camps. What's the breakdown on that? How many camps is that?

Again, not claiming PSU is breaking any rules. I'm just clueless on how this works and what the regulations and requirements are.

I know that when we (ETR) hired Quentin Wright to do a camp a few years ago we paid him $500 for the day. This was the year after he graduated.

As far as other expenses, I would assume that facility fees, insurance, food, etc. take up the large percentage of this. I know that PSU runs two of the largest team camps (as in HS teams) during the summer and an additional three technique camps. These are the camps at the university, not any satellite camps that may take place. Lots of kids to house and feed. $600K does not seem that exorbitant for the amount of kids they are running through there.

 

[dicemen99]

Also, a quick google search shows PSU camps in Georgia (done in conjunction with Journeymen Wrestling) and Brockport on the first page.

EDIT - more camps at Maritime Wrestling Academy, Manheim (PA), and Baker College (KS) that they do. A lot of camps.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I know that when we (ETR) hired Quentin Wright to do a camp a few years ago we paid him $500 for the day. This was the year after he graduated.

As far as other expenses, I would assume that facility fees, insurance, food, etc. take up the large percentage of this. I know that PSU runs two of the largest team camps (as in HS teams) during the summer and an additional three technique camps. These are the camps at the university, not any satellite camps that may take place. Lots of kids to house and feed. $600K does not seem that exorbitant for the amount of kids they are running through there.

Thanks for the info. Idk what ETR is. Is it a high school? Because I imagine PSU (and other schools) pay their athletes for running a camp or clinic in addition to what the high schools pay.

 

[dicemen99]

Thanks for the info. Idk what ETR is. Is it a high school? Because I imagine PSU (and other schools) pay their athletes for running a camp or clinic in addition to what the high schools pay.

ETR is Escape the Rock wrestling. It is a large HS tournament in PA, we do some other things also like a dual team in the offseason and help out Beat the Streets (that's where the camp comes in).

We did not do this in conjunction with PSU - Quentin was graduated at the time. I just brought this up in response to your question about how much a clinician may earn a day.

In terms of the PSU camps, I'm just guessing, but PSU wrestling probably receives the revenue and pays the expenses. I don't think any HS or colleges that host the PSU camps have any dealings with the athletes.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

PSU hasn't gotten all of their top targets the past few years (it only seems like it). You would think that if PSU offered a top stud only a 10% ride with the promise of making thousands of dollars working summer camps and then making several thousands of dollars a year wrestling for their club after graduation, that if those kids decided to go elsewhere that they would have spilled the beans on what they were offered and if anything unethical was occurring, the other schools would report it.. To my knowledge, no one has done this as of yet. Maybe someone should ask Spencer Lee what kind of sales pitch they gave him?

I hate Cael and PSU as much as any Hawkeye fan, only because of how well they are doing. And I agree that having 10x more money than other clubs is a huge advantage. Do I suspect they are walking right up to the line of what is/isn't allowed? Probably. But I don't suspect they are really doing anything beyond that and they are simply finding more resources and using them better than all other schools........... and they have an excellent coaching staff.

I wouldn't assume that other schools would necessarily report infractions they hear about.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

ETR is Escape the Rock wrestling. It is a large HS tournament in PA, we do some other things also like a dual team in the offseason and help out Beat the Streets (that's where the camp comes in).

We did not do this in conjunction with PSU - Quentin was graduated at the time. I just brought this up in response to your question about how much a clinician may earn a day.

In terms of the PSU camps, I'm just guessing, but PSU wrestling probably receives the revenue and pays the expenses. I don't think any HS or colleges that host the PSU camps have any dealings with the athletes.

Gotcha. Makes sense. Thanks for the info. Still curious if schools have to disclose to NCAA how much they pay each athlete for camps/clinics. I would be shocked if not. Also, not sure if this info would be public or not. Most likely not is my guess.

 

[ltsimmer]

ETR is Escape the Rock wrestling. It is a large HS tournament in PA, we do some other things also like a dual team in the offseason and help out Beat the Streets (that's where the camp comes in).

We did not do this in conjunction with PSU - Quentin was graduated at the time. I just brought this up in response to your question about how much a clinician may earn a day.

In terms of the PSU camps, I'm just guessing, but PSU wrestling probably receives the revenue and pays the expenses. I don't think any HS or colleges that host the PSU camps have any dealings with the athletes.

This makes sense to me, but the numbers don't seem to add up to me. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. I thought I remember someone saying that PSU wrestling club had $0 revenue and over $600k expenses. If you are only give each wrestler $500 per camp, where is the rest of the money going?If PSU wrestling camps are well run and well liked (which I'm sure is the case), shouldn't they be bringing in butt loads of cash? No one runs camps wanting to lose money....I must be missing something.

 

[ih8iast8]

This makes sense to me, but the numbers don't seem to add up to me. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. I thought I remember someone saying that PSU wrestling club had $0 revenue and over $600k expenses. If you are only give each wrestler $500 per camp, where is the rest of the money going?If PSU wrestling camps are well run and well liked (which I'm sure is the case), shouldn't they be bringing in butt loads of cash? No one runs camps wanting to lose money....I must be missing something.

It is as if there is money running down the shower drains, eh?

 

[Rhino80]

Love how money being poured into post college wrestling is somehow a conspiracy?

This is what wrestling needs. Wrestlers , elite wrestlers work as hard or harder than any other professional athlete , yet they get paid crap. If we want to keep wrestlers wrestling , money needs to flow. If not, we'll be watching our Olympic hopefuls on TV doing MMA. If a college football player gets an NFL contract , great for him. If a college wrestler goes on to train for the olympics and gets a stipend , that's cheating or somehow unethical?

 

[horraybeer]

This makes sense to me, but the numbers don't seem to add up to me. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. I thought I remember someone saying that PSU wrestling club had $0 revenue and over $600k expenses. If you are only give each wrestler $500 per camp, where is the rest of the money going?If PSU wrestling camps are well run and well liked (which I'm sure is the case), shouldn't they be bringing in butt loads of cash? No one runs camp. wanting to lose money....I must be missing something.

Read the 990 form for NLWC 2015. It is open to the public. 613k was total expenses. 313k was paid as compensation to disqualified persons. Total revenue was 372k.

 

[ltsimmer]

Love how money being poured into post college wrestling is somehow a conspiracy?

This is what wrestling needs. Wrestlers , elite wrestlers work as hard or harder than any other professional athlete , yet they get paid crap. If we want to keep wrestlers wrestling , money needs to flow. If not, we'll be watching our Olympic hopefuls on TV doing MMA. If a college football player gets an NFL contract , great for him. If a college wrestler goes on to train for the olympics and gets a stipend , that's cheating or somehow unethical?

I don't necessarily think that's cheating or unethical, I'm just upset PSU thought of it first and not my Hawkeyes!

Let's say you do 10 camps, clinics, or tournaments in one summer. Let's also say that you bring in 200 wrestlers for each event with an entrance fee of $200. The total revenue is $400,000 for the summer. I also assume you do camps, clinics, and tournaments to make money, so lets say that all expenses (for workers, trophies, food, t-shirts, housing, etc.) cost $200,000. That is a net profit of $200,000. But PSU had $0 profit and $600k expenses. Some people are making a lot of money.

 

[Jaybird319]

What's does disqualified persons mean in a nonprofit?

 

[ltsimmer]

Read the 990 form for NLWC 2015. It is open to the public. 613k was total expenses. 313k was paid as compensation to disqualified persons. Total revenue was 372k.

What does "313k was paid as compensation to disqualified persons" mean? Okay, so $372k revenue and $613k expenses for a net gain of -$241k. Still doesn't make sense.

 

[minnhawkeye]

The whole deal just looks to me like it is just like the rich folks and corporations do hire a good lawyer and a good accountant to work together...just saying

 

[ltsimmer]

The whole point of camps, clinics, and tournaments are to make money and lots of it. For PSU to lose money on these events seems unreal for an organization that seems so well put together in terms of management, strategy, vision, goals, etc.

 

[LutherAce]

What does "313k was paid as compensation to disqualified persons" mean? Okay, so $372k revenue and $613k expenses for a net gain of -$241k. Still doesn't make sense.

https://www.nonprofitexpert.com/nonprofit-irs-topic-index/disqualified-person/

 

[IAChief32]

The whole point of camps, clinics, and tournaments are to make money and lots of it. For PSU to lose money on these events seems unreal for an organization that seems so well put together in terms of management, strategy, vision, goals, etc.

Seems like something is getting misinterpreted..:I'm guessing they do make profits and it's shown somewhere in the paperwork.

I've seen a lot of fans and wrestlers complaining about Flo's report...that it doesn't have anything to do with the sport. In every sport, though, these discussions are had. One of the key issues with our sport is funding so I don't know why all the blue butt hurt.

 

[ltsimmer]

Maybe Cael doesn't care about his coaching contract and maybe we now know why.....

 

[Rhino80]

Quick answer , a disqualified person is just about anyone who gets paid. Best to lump everyone in to be safe.

 

[Rhino80]

I have no idea how they prepared this. Does that money include stipends , travel to tourney's , athlete camps , speaking engagements? Looks like just about all the spending other than formal salaries is wrapped up in that number.

 

[IAChief32]

I have no idea how they prepared this. Does that money include stipends , travel to tourney's , athlete camps , speaking engagements? Looks like just about all the spending other than formal salaries is wrapped up in that number.

Off the topic but are you the same Rhino who wrestled at Duke that I see on Twitter from time to time?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Love how money being poured into post college wrestling is somehow a conspiracy?

This is what wrestling needs. Wrestlers , elite wrestlers work as hard or harder than any other professional athlete , yet they get paid crap. If we want to keep wrestlers wrestling , money needs to flow. If not, we'll be watching our Olympic hopefuls on TV doing MMA. If a college football player gets an NFL contract , great for him. If a college wrestler goes on to train for the olympics and gets a stipend , that's cheating or somehow unethical?

I don't see how the two situations are remotely similar.

If a college football player got a contract for the only NFL team with the money to spend, wouldn't you be concerned about the overall health of the NFL?

Unless you think the US should only have very limited number of training facilities in order to have huge numbers in the practice room, this should be concerning, imo, and not just as an Iowa fan.

The concerns aren't about the athlete - at all, everyone is generally happy for them and want them to be financially successful in wrestling. The complaints aren't about "ARod," the complaints are about the Yankees.

Sure, money needs to flow, but out of all the donors in the US, how many will simply give it to the NLWC - instead of their own rooting interest, like Iowa, ISU, OSU, or anywhere else? The competition breeds the donations. So, yes this could spur a big round of donations out of pure competitiveness ... or it could lead to the shutting down of the smaller clubs.

 

[Rhino80]

No I didn't wrestle for Duke. Wrestled at the same HS as Zain and the Hughes brothers , then wrestled Greco for the USMC. Wish I would have went the college route but the military was very rewarding in its own way.

 

[dicemen99]

What does "313k was paid as compensation to disqualified persons" mean? Okay, so $372k revenue and $613k expenses for a net gain of -$241k. Still doesn't make sense.

Disqualified persons is basically anyone in a position of power at the club - NOT athletes. Somebody who runs the club, coaches, etc. At least that is how I would interpret it.

So, I would look at that and say that the clubs DO run at a profit - AND Cael and the coaches also receive some of their compensation through the club, not just the university.

Which makes a lot of sense unless you have the tinfoil on.

 

[DonHawkeye]

The rumblings of misconduct that I have heard of out east are telling RECRUITS the amount they would be making through the NLWC after graduation and having upper class man give back some scholarship money towards the end of their careers, so they can go after big recruits when they didn't have a lot of scholarship money open, with the promise of getting it back after graduation through the club. This report certainly doesn't prove any of that, but it does proves that the club has the funds to pay for such moves. Which anyone that has read this board for the last month should have know.

 

[IAChief32]

I guess the one thing I would worry about out of this whole thing is somebody getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar...using the RTC for recruit payments or other NCAA infractions (not necessarily Penn State...could be anybody, they just paint a big target). Could spell the end of RTC affiliation with the universities period if it ever happened because we all know that one f*ck up applies to everyone in today's society. I just think nobody really cares what happens in wrestling.

 

[ih8iast8]

This is slowing turning into the PWB: Penn State West Board.

There aren't enough pg-13 dick picks for me to kill all these threads.

 

[dunkej01]

The rumblings of misconduct that I have heard of out east are telling RECRUITS the amount they would be making through the NLWC after graduation and having upper class man give back some scholarship money towards the end of their careers, so they can go after big recruits when they didn't have a lot of scholarship money open, with the promise of getting it back after graduation through the club. This report certainly doesn't prove any of that, but it does proves that the club has the funds to pay for such moves. Which anyone that has read this board for the last month should have know.

Can you name names? There's enough "journalists" and pretenders that read this forum that can then ask these individuals to confirm or deny the "word out east".