On a serious note, with how Jan 6th went down, why would she start this crap already?
2024 election theft plans
- Thread starter ihhawk
- Start date
Maybe because one is about truth and one is made up by a cult leader?
Im not sure how folks cant see the game plan the GOP established. They've set up the Dems. They've screamed election fraud for years to the point that everyone just rolls there eyes and diesnt take them seriously. Now the GOP can do as they wish as no Dem will want to change course and join the election fraud wagon. The GOP at this point can do as they please and will suffer mininal repercussions should they do so.
Pretty established history of democrats on the election fraud band wagon my friend
Remember when Hillary blamed her loss to Trump on the Russians? Russia can't even get organized to take a small town in Ukraine but somehow was able to decide the outcome of a U.S. presidential election.
Hillary wanting attention? Get out of here. She just can't fade away just as bad as Trump. Let's put those 2 chapters behind us.
Agreed the anti Trump movement has turned into a cult.
We all know the Democrats inner city election cheating apparatus is very strong.
I had not heard that. Please link your sources for this fraud.
Trump makes divisive remarks on a daily basis, and you complain because Hillary states an issue many of us are concerned about? Do you tend to criticize Trump for his hyperbolic retorts?
Nah, the dems are already on the election fraud wagon. Not just Stacey Abrams, but dems had trouble saying Trump was a legitimately elected president for years after Trump was elected, some probably still haven't brought themselves to admit it.
It's just part and parcel for election losers.
Not to mention, just look at this board, nearly every instance of election fraud anyone posts is a lefty posting about a republican committing election fraud.
Dems are in just as deep as Rs, they just didn't storm the capital/attack democracy, they instead destroyed small businesses and damaged property in cities across the country.
It'll be this way until major election reform happens and restores confidence of all.
It didn't just start. It was set in motion almost immediately after the 2020 election by red state legislatures changing their laws as they pertained to voting. Trump's own Homeland Security official declared it was the secure election in American history but yet many still felt the need to fix what was not broken.
And this is a perfect example of how the absolute BS coming from Trump and the Jan 6ers has been normalized thru false what-aboutisms. You have been gaslit into a ridiculous perspective. The reactions by the different individuals in losses is not "just part and parcel for election losers"....
To be fair, their malign influence efforts are likely better funded with a more in-depth focus, so it's possible that shift in focus was to their own demise.
You exhibit a good grasp of politically charged buzzwords. Maybe it'll help you convince somebody of something sometime. Perhaps yourself.
You are 180 degrees backwards. Republicans are STILL running on the big lie. Donald Trump is STILL grifting from the people you vote with on the big lie. It has been proven he knows it's a lie and continues to push it. Why? For money and power.
Politically charged buzzwords like accusing dems of destroying major cities? You didn't have that bullshit spoonfed to you, I'm sure.
Well we're a couple years of being dumbed into looking like Hungary.Can you blame him? People are dumb.
So no real defense for the BS you posted. Just an attack on the verbiage I used. It's impressive that you avoided all buzzwords in your ranting. It would have been nice if the John Lewis act had passed so the "major election reform" you think is necessary could have restored confidence. Any idea who stood in the way of that?
How is she lying? Everything she said is happening in broad daylight. I've been telling you guys this. You're telling me Clarence Thomas is following the Constitution when his wife is clearly doing everything in her power to steal elections? Are you seriously this naïve?
Are you going to deny what's right in front of our eyes when votes for democrats are thrown out by state legislatures in 2024? Because that's the endgame. Yes or no, are you okay with votes not counting if Republicans don't agree with them? I just want to know if you're for a democratic republic or for authoritarian rule.
Hillary isn't wrong. Just like she wasn't wrong about Trump.
Specifically what do you think Hillary said that is a lie?
Manipulating the MAGA cult on the basis of their prejudices and fears is infinitely easier.
The fact that republicans are trying to steal the 2024 election
So just so I'm clear, "the left" destroyed businesses and damaged property as a response to losing an election?
Do you think Trump tried to steal the 2020 election? How do you feel about the fake electors?
Why did Arizona State Rep. Shawnna Bolick introduce House Bill 2720 in January to allow a majority vote of the Legislature to "revoke the secretary of state’s issuance or certification of a presidential elector’s certificate of the election." ?
What do you know about the independent state legislator doctrine and how it could influence elections if the Supreme Court rules in it's favor?
Why not? It's exactly what Trump did before the 2020 election. Payback's a bitch I guess.
The radicalized, ultra MAGA, deplorables, whatever label you'd like to apply, you can probably write them off as irredeemable. Think of people like SA_Hawk above, who takes it on just a matter of faith that we all know the Democrats have an inner city cheating apparatus that is very strong. Is there evidence that would even approach a legal standard? Of course not. Is there evidence that reasonable people would evaluate and land on a similar conclusion? No. For the group first identified, it's not based on evidence, it's emotional, it's a matter of faith.
What about the rest? The reasonable right, right leaning centrists, independents, left leaning centrists, whatever they want to call themselves.
What seems to be very common from this group is this notion that both sides are the same, they both do it, they both have their own version and truth is somewhere in the middle. I get that approach, a lot of the time it will serve people well. We're all familiar with the two hypothetical children who are in a fight, each has their version and then there's the third version which is the truth. It can also be pretty convenient, you don't really have to bother really knowing either version all that well, you can just say - eh, they're both BS, it's somewhere in the middle - again that will often work, but not always.
Sometimes, something is true, sometimes the truth isn't the middle. Sometimes, it's not equal and opposite, sometimes one side is worse.
If a Democrat was screaming that the sky is green, while the Republican was like: "WTF? The sky is blue!!!" Is a reasonable person really going to conclude that the sky is somewhere in the middle, that it must be red?
No, sometimes, something is true.
- Gore tried to protest the election!
- Stacy Abrams still won't admit she lost and wasn't cheated!
- Hillary said the Russians stole it!
See the Democrats do the same thing, they're always accusing the other side of cheating, they both do it!
Except it's incomprehensibly different what is going on with the Republicans right now in terms of size/scale and efforts.
Just look at how many GOP lawmakers objected to the election results. Not just in public comments, but actually as part of their official duties. The ones who tried to push back? They almost all lost their primaries or retired so they wouldn't lose.
Look at how many rank and file GOP members believe that Joe Biden stole the election from Trump. It's significant! None of it is evidence based, it's all a matter of faith.
Look around, if you want a future as an elected official in the GOP, you've got to be an election denier.
So a lot of them hold unfounded beliefs as a matter of faith? So what?! Well, the concern is that it's not just beliefs but actions.
Look what Trump was trying to do in Georgia, telling the officials there to "find some votes". What if those officials went along with it?
Look what they were trying to get Pence to do, what if Pence had less of a spine and went along with it?
Look at what happened on 1/6 and the schemes that coincided with it.
The concern is that more and more election overseeing officials like Secretary of State positions are being filled by MAGA election denying crazies. What will happen the next time they get a result that they do not like and are suspicious of Democrat cheating?
The two sides are not equal and opposite, they are not the same, and one side is controlled and more thoroughly beholden to the crazy, baseless voter fraud stuff than the other.
Part of me hopes there's a Red Wave, so they can shut up about stolen elections for a little longer and there's no need to try any administrative strategies to overturn or throw out unfavorable election results.
TLDR: One party is far crazier and is worse shape than the other with election denying craziness. Sometimes they aren't equal and opposite.
/rant
What about the rest? The reasonable right, right leaning centrists, independents, left leaning centrists, whatever they want to call themselves.
What seems to be very common from this group is this notion that both sides are the same, they both do it, they both have their own version and truth is somewhere in the middle. I get that approach, a lot of the time it will serve people well. We're all familiar with the two hypothetical children who are in a fight, each has their version and then there's the third version which is the truth. It can also be pretty convenient, you don't really have to bother really knowing either version all that well, you can just say - eh, they're both BS, it's somewhere in the middle - again that will often work, but not always.
Sometimes, something is true, sometimes the truth isn't the middle. Sometimes, it's not equal and opposite, sometimes one side is worse.
If a Democrat was screaming that the sky is green, while the Republican was like: "WTF? The sky is blue!!!" Is a reasonable person really going to conclude that the sky is somewhere in the middle, that it must be red?
No, sometimes, something is true.
- Gore tried to protest the election!
- Stacy Abrams still won't admit she lost and wasn't cheated!
- Hillary said the Russians stole it!
See the Democrats do the same thing, they're always accusing the other side of cheating, they both do it!
Except it's incomprehensibly different what is going on with the Republicans right now in terms of size/scale and efforts.
Just look at how many GOP lawmakers objected to the election results. Not just in public comments, but actually as part of their official duties. The ones who tried to push back? They almost all lost their primaries or retired so they wouldn't lose.
Look at how many rank and file GOP members believe that Joe Biden stole the election from Trump. It's significant! None of it is evidence based, it's all a matter of faith.
Look around, if you want a future as an elected official in the GOP, you've got to be an election denier.
So a lot of them hold unfounded beliefs as a matter of faith? So what?! Well, the concern is that it's not just beliefs but actions.
Look what Trump was trying to do in Georgia, telling the officials there to "find some votes". What if those officials went along with it?
Look what they were trying to get Pence to do, what if Pence had less of a spine and went along with it?
Look at what happened on 1/6 and the schemes that coincided with it.
The concern is that more and more election overseeing officials like Secretary of State positions are being filled by MAGA election denying crazies. What will happen the next time they get a result that they do not like and are suspicious of Democrat cheating?
The two sides are not equal and opposite, they are not the same, and one side is controlled and more thoroughly beholden to the crazy, baseless voter fraud stuff than the other.
Part of me hopes there's a Red Wave, so they can shut up about stolen elections for a little longer and there's no need to try any administrative strategies to overturn or throw out unfavorable election results.
TLDR: One party is far crazier and is worse shape than the other with election denying craziness. Sometimes they aren't equal and opposite.
/rant
Understood. But when one side (or both sides) ALWAYS says nothing is ever in the middle and doubles and triples down on your take, the times that you're actually right are mere speed bumps.
I mean, how many months did the Dems spend refusing to call what was happening at the border "a crisis"? That was as crazy as Trump's "huge inaugural crowd" nonsense. They're still defending a lot of the insane COVID policies. Hell, they kicked people off Twitter for reporting a true story about the President's son, while talking about how Russians help the GOP on social media. There's a lot to be said for their refusal to ever see that the truth of something might be different than the way they see it.
The GOP tells its lies and doesn't care if it's true or not. The Dems tell their lies and swear they aren't lies.
This is similar to the "both sides are the same" strategy in terms of convenient devices. "Understood, but what about all of these other things that I want to talk about rather than the topic that you wrote about. See they are liars!"
My post was about the differences in degrees of craziness and comprehensiveness of election denying/stolen election stuff among each party.
If you you weren't just trying to change the subject and your point is that people see Dems as liars in other topics and categories and that's why people are suspicious of Dems with stolen election stuff. Fine, that's human nature, but it's not always rational either.
Democrat's poor credibility is probably a factor, but it doesn't change the reality of the problem either.
