They are all over where I live. Movie theatres, grocery stores, strip malls, etc. where do you live? 2010?
600-900 mile-per-charge EVs...
- Thread starter Joes Place
- Start date
I travel all over the southeast and rarely see them.
Most hotels have a couple of charging stations in various states of disrepair, but otherwise, no.
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Did I?
I have no recollection of that, but if I did, please accept my apology. Obviously I was wrong,
We may not agree much, but you are clearly your own person.
Cold tolerance is another huge issue for those of us eager to jump in to EV ownership....but who live in absurdly cold climates (MN in Doodle's case) and have seen the debilitating effects it has on phones and other battery powered items.
Don’t apologize to Trad bro. He’s the worst lol.
I am yet to see folks waiting in line to charge. Currently, the supply seems to be ahead of the curve.
On the flip side, I see plenty of folks circling at the ole gas station.
I am yet to see peeps waiting in line to charge. Waiting on the charge, yes.
Often there are peeps “circling” at the ole gas station, waiting for an opening. That sucks when on the road and ya gotta pee.
Tesla is cashing in on DC's legislation where Tesla charging stations will now be able to charge all ev cars, I know there is a company in Plano, already building these recharging stations. It's coming boys !!
www.cbsnews.com
Tesla to open part of charging network to other EVs, as Biden officials announce latest steps in expansion of charging stations
The Biden administration announced rules for EV chargers and new commitments from Tesla, GM and others.
www.cbsnews.com
A third question might be "is there a loss in range as a function of the number of times charged?" Will I get the same range after charge number 300 that I got after charge number 2?
There is a decline, but those I have spoken to mention it being no big deal. Someone with a Leaf addressed that earlier in this thread. Maybe it was @hawkeyetraveler .
Most equipment suffers some decline over years of service. If you have a cell phone, you may have noticed said decline.
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You post about traveling all over the southeast, but I speculate that you run routine routes that don’t cover “all over the southeast”.
We see charging stations in grocery store lots, Best Buy, Wally World, Costco, truck stops, gas stations, downtown public parking lots, parking garages, hotels, etc…
You are making shit up. That, or you don’t get out much. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a single Garden Inn having maintenance problems.
You post about traveling all over the southeast, but I speculate that you run routine routes that don’t cover “all over the southeast”.
We see charging stations in grocery store lots, Best Buy, Wally World, Costco, truck stops, gas stations, downtown public parking lots, parking garages, hotels, etc…
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Good point. My Apple Watch 6 - under 3 years old - is reading 83% battery capacity. I still get a full day's use, but with little margin. Will the batteries of my EV show a similar degradation with time - or is usage (miles driven) the more accurate measure?
Typical design is for ~1000 full charge cycles
So, at 250 miles per charge, that's 250x1000 = 250,000 miles
At that point, I believe they can degrade to <90% of "new" charge capacity.
So, putting 15k miles per year on your car, that's in the neighborhood of 13-15 years.
Li Ion batteries do very well in "standby" w/o losing charge.
Yep
120V you're gonna be limited to 15 Amps, typically. Or around 1.5 to 1.8 kW (might be 20 amps, if you have a 20A circuit - not sure if Level 1 only handles 15A or 20A)
So, if you have a 70 kWhr battery set in your car, 70/1.8 = 39 hours to fully charge it on a Level 1 circuit.
This is why people install 220 V or higher outlets in their garages for recharging an EV - so it will easily do it in a few hours, instead of more than 1 day.
Most of your 208/220V wiring (like for your electric dryer) is 40A or 50A service (or an electric range)
208V x 50A = 10.4+ kW, so you can recharge that 70 kWhr battery in under 7 hours on a typical home 208V outlet.
In case anyone wants to know "how the math works here"....
Your Apple watch (or phone) is hitting most of (or typically half) a recharge cycle every day
Most EVs aren't being driven every day to full/most discharge like your watch or phone is. So, if you go 2 or 3 days in your EV w/o having to recharge for most of your driving, then that correlates to 2x to 3x longer life than your typical watch or phone battery.
Plus, the Li Ion battery cells are better in EVs than most phones/watches.
You can look up what many typical Li-ion ( 18650 is what most use) cells have for charge/discharge characteristics at lots of battery websites
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Those charging stations are popping up all over town here. How do they work?
Who/HOW do you pay and how much does it cost for a charge?
And since they seem to be on the outer edges of large parking lots such as those around shopping centers, what do the buyers of electricity customarily do to kill time? I could do the coffee, but not the pie. Is that kind of the deal?
Also, what kind of impact on home electricity bills is taking place? A little? some, but not very much? or, a lot?
IIRC, my buddy says it is costing him approx. $7 to charge from 20% to full for his 200 mile range Polestar. That is using a 220 volt home charger.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
I typically use a Tesla supercharger which auto bills to your account (for my car it is free for the car’s lifetime as I was a very early adopter). For services like ChargePoint they have a little RFID reader and you get a small keycard to scan then it bills your account.
In terms of killing time I only use them while on roadtrips and a typical charge stop would be park, eat some food, buy water/snacks for car, go to the bathroom. Usually 30 mins or less and then I am back on the road.
Impact on home electricity will be a function of how much you drive and rates in your area. The internet says costs are ~$0.04/mile on average. A car with 40 mpg and $4/gallon costs $0.10/mile. So EVs are less than half the cost of gas. People typically say they are 3x cheaper, I suspect that is in areas with higher gas prices.
You don't understand how "credit cards" work?
How do you pay for your gas at a "gas station"?
You pay by the kWHr. I don't know what they currently charge. Typical home cost is $0.15 per kWHr. I'm sure they charge you a premium; but even at $0.30/kWhr, a 70 kWhr "tank" would cost $21 to fill, which is roughly half what equivalent gas would cost you.
Sounds about right. Home rates are .12 to .15 per kWhr (generally lower during off-peak hours)
60 kWhr at $0.12 per kWhr is $7.20
Yep
Front end cost of the car is more $$
"Fuel" costs are less than half for an ICE vehicle.
No oil changes
Minimal service (and brakes last far longer with regenerative braking)
Almost no "tune ups".
There are 4 right by the Skywalk door in the parking garage I use. With an EV I could make probably half my drives without having to charge at home.
One interesting point I'd make about Tesla vs other automakers shifting into the EV markets:
Tesla currently has 4 vehicle models. That's it. 3, S, X, Y.
No "new" 2023 or 2024 model versions every year.
Every other automaker spends lots of re-design $$ to come out with a new line of vehicle models, every year.
Will those legacy automakers follow Tesla's strategy here?
Because keeping your vehicle model the same, year over year, saves a ton in continued re-design tweaks.
Competition in the EV markets is going to pick up. Substantially. That's going to be a win for consumers looking to get into an EV over the next 5-10 years.
Tesla currently has 4 vehicle models. That's it. 3, S, X, Y.
No "new" 2023 or 2024 model versions every year.
Every other automaker spends lots of re-design $$ to come out with a new line of vehicle models, every year.
Will those legacy automakers follow Tesla's strategy here?
Because keeping your vehicle model the same, year over year, saves a ton in continued re-design tweaks.
Competition in the EV markets is going to pick up. Substantially. That's going to be a win for consumers looking to get into an EV over the next 5-10 years.
I hadn't thought about that. Pretty cool.
So when you're buying a used Tesla, assuming the vehicles under consideration look physically sound, what should you look for? Mileage? Anything else? Are there reliable ways to measure how much battery you have left?
Diagnostics should indicate what % charge the battery capacity has, relative to "new".
Along with miles driven.
And I'd anticipate EVs store any error codes/issues the system has had, which you could ask for a printout/readout.
Cold weather energy costs are a concern for me also. Upper Great Plains winters are notoriously brutal….. not just winter months, cold weather persists from late October to April.
I have a friend with a model 3 who told me his battery lost about 10% sitting during a workday on cold winter days. So, it's far more than just the 1% you might lose parked in a garage or on warm day, but still not terrible either. He said the biggest issue is driving from IC to Des Moines on cold winter days with the heat on uses the battery pretty fast.
The car tells you right on the screen. Teslas show the percentage capacity still left, while my Leaf shows how many bars out of 12. I get a new battery for free if it drops to 9 before 100k.
As a bit of an aside, when I talked with the mechanics at the dealership before buying about maintenance and repairs, they said they "never work on them," and that when people bring them in for servicing, they will test the battery, "but the computer already tells you its condition."
Gas taxes only cover around half of road maintenance costs, depending on your state.
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My car will automatically deduct 10 miles from the range available as soon as I turn on the ac or heat, but then "restores" whatever amount is left as soon as I turn them off.
There certainly are advantages to cost to not having to redesign every year, but as more competition enters the market I could see the "newest thing" being what gets a lot of the sales and it could harm older model car sales. So, to keep them fresh they will have to constantly come out with new models. Maybe they will switch to multi-year patterns though. Like introduce new models every 3 years instead of every year or something like that.
Actually, Tesla's models are the S, 3, X, Y.
They went with 3 because "E" was already taken by Ford. Get it?
More info on Toyota's solid-state battery tech
www.theguardian.com
Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles.
The world’s second largest carmaker was already pursuing a plan to roll out cars with advanced solid-state batteries, which offer benefits compared with liquid-based batteries, by 2025.
On Tuesday, the Japanese company said it had simplified production of the material used to make them, hailing the discovery as a significant leap forward that could dramatically cut charging times and increase driving range.
...
“Often there are breakthroughs at the prototype stage but then scaling it up is difficult,” he said. “If it is a genuine breakthrough it could be a gamechanger, very much the holy grail of battery vehicles.”
Kaita said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less.
The company expects to be able to manufacture solid-state batteries for use in electric vehicles as soon as 2027, according to the Financial Times, which first reported on Toyota’s claimed breakthrough.
...
Toyota said it believed it could simplify the production process, potentially making solid-state batteries easier to produce than lithium-ion ones.
Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars
Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes
Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles.
The world’s second largest carmaker was already pursuing a plan to roll out cars with advanced solid-state batteries, which offer benefits compared with liquid-based batteries, by 2025.
On Tuesday, the Japanese company said it had simplified production of the material used to make them, hailing the discovery as a significant leap forward that could dramatically cut charging times and increase driving range.
...
“Often there are breakthroughs at the prototype stage but then scaling it up is difficult,” he said. “If it is a genuine breakthrough it could be a gamechanger, very much the holy grail of battery vehicles.”
Kaita said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less.
The company expects to be able to manufacture solid-state batteries for use in electric vehicles as soon as 2027, according to the Financial Times, which first reported on Toyota’s claimed breakthrough.
...
Toyota said it believed it could simplify the production process, potentially making solid-state batteries easier to produce than lithium-ion ones.
My buddy drove up to Gatlinburg, TN from Merritt Island, FL. He owns a Tesla. He said he rented a car because charging takes too long for road trips.
Did he drive straight through? One overnight full charge and maybe a lunchtime top up should do it.
At my age, it would be a 3-day drive.
