Who would be screwed?
A few thousand Tesla investors?
A few thousand auto workers?
What about the millions upon millions of people that want a cheaper car?
How many new business could people afford to frequent if a new car was 1/3rd the price?
Biden Announces 100% TARIFF on Chinese-made Electric Vehicles
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
Who would be screwed?
A few thousand Tesla investors?
A few thousand auto workers?
What about the millions upon millions of people that want a cheaper car?
How many new business could people afford to frequent if a new car was 1/3rd the price?
What’s the distinction?
Don’t they have to be competitively priced to be worthy of investment?
I'd buy an EV for 15k right now, wife and I have been throwing the idea of adding an economy vehicle to the stable for short trips. I've got a truck, she has a 3 row suv, we would use it as a "glorified golf cart" for short stuff. Don't know that I trust used electrics though.
They have to be competitively priced in order to sell them.
WWJD claimed that we wouldn’t need tariffs to catch up with China if we had been more aggressive in developing EV technology.
American-made EVs start at around $30K. If China starts selling reliable EVs for $10K, we’re not going to move a lot of American-made EVs. That’s the whole point of the proposed tariffs.
My point is that no matter when we had started developing EV technology and no matter how aggressively we pursued it, the economics of building vehicles in the United States make it impossible to build and sell cars at $10K. So we were going to need tariffs in order to be competitive no matter what.
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Who pays for the subsidy?
Who is to say reaching an economy of scale was a direct result of the subsidy and would not have occurred naturally without it? Internal economies of scale do not require subsidies. It requires demand though. If there is enough demand, you don’t need to subsidize.
Might you go so far as to say it would be a bloodbath for the US auto industry?
Lol at Huawei. There was (and still is) a big telecom fiasco when they had to rip out and replace Huawei radios at thousands of cell towers across America cause it was found out that they had spyware relaying information back to Chinese intelligence services.
You've read what you wanted to hear. Evidently you just aren't smart enough to understand nuance and circumstances. Not surprising for Republicans.
You think you are being clever with your nonsense, but your blatant hypocrisy is obvious. And don’t ever call me a republican again. Gross.
This will hurt American consumers. That’s compounded because only part of BYD’s success is due to the Chinese government. They built a better mousetrap. Their drivetrain and battery are designed to be cheaper to manufacture. They’re selling SUVs in Australia for $31k.
That said, we spend about $400 billion of our defense budget every year to build and maintain our defensive capabilities against China. Letting them control our vehicles and electronics seems like it would give them a huge geopolitical advantage over us.
That said, we spend about $400 billion of our defense budget every year to build and maintain our defensive capabilities against China. Letting them control our vehicles and electronics seems like it would give them a huge geopolitical advantage over us.
BYD has never sold in the US, and that is based on margins related to the current 25% tariff, shipping costs, no formal distribution structure, or name/brand recognition driving demand.
There has been discussion to solve most/all of these, and one piece of that would be near shoring their production.
BYD to nail down Mexico plant site by year-end, Americas head says
May 14, 2024MEXICO CITY, May 14 (Reuters) - Chinese electric auto maker BYD expects to have chosen a site to build a plant in Mexico, where it will put out up to 150,000 cars a year, by the end of 2024, the firm's Americas head said on Tuesday.
The plant will be built in central Mexico, Americas head Stella Li told Reuters in an interview. It should take two to three years to open, she added.
Those paragraphs seem contradictory (2-3 years to open, put out 150k cars be the end of '24)
I guess we are all able to have a good chuckle now that people are paying double for housing since Biden took over. Such a hoot!
I think it’s just phrased a little awkwardly. The way I read it, they expect to chose a site by the end of 2024 and then have it operational and ready to produce 150,000 cars per year in about 2-3 years.
I think I missed the third comma and read "where it will put out up to 150,000 cars a year by the end of 2024"
Believe the appositive phrase is providing the future site’s expected capacity (after being built and is running).
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Then quit acting like a Republican. I have explained this. If it is too difficult for you to understand, well, that's your problem.
Trade is the one area where Biden has really
disappointed. Just as much a protectionist as Trump. Obama had it right.
disappointed. Just as much a protectionist as Trump. Obama had it right.
From his post; "There has been discussion to solve most/all of these, and one piece of that would be near shoring their production."
Do you understand that a BYD factory in Mexico accomplishes this?
Not yet, they haven't built the factory in Mexico.
The sky-high duties are only for cars brought to the US from China. Imports from Mexico built with Chinese parts pay only a 2.5% duty under the rules of the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA).
...
Mike Austin, senior research analyst for EVs and mobility at Guidehouse Insights, told Autoweek, “The threat of Chinese EVs made in Mexico is an additional risk to legacy manufacturers because the free trade agreement would make it difficult to impose any protectionist measures.
Do you know they will be sold in the USA? Edit: Your own article states there are no plans to sell in the USA.
I'm sure they'll have to throw more safety stuff on them than they have now, but I expect the largest EV manufacturer on the planet will eventually sell in our market too.
I certainly understand that they'd wait to reduce Uncle Sam's skim before doing so. Especially with Biden jacking the tariff from 25% to 100%. It'd be stupid to sell here until they're manufactured in Mexico.
I primarily drive one vehicle and as long as that is the case, it won't be electric. The pioneers take the arrows and I won't be one of them.
BYD, which sold three million cars overall in 2023, is now the largest seller of EVs on the planet, surpassing Tesla. BYD sold 330,000 Dolphin Minis in China, making it the best seller in its class, the company said.
As to where it will be sold, BYD said, “In Americas, Europe, Asia Pacific, and the Middle East, we will assess the appropriate timing for meeting our consumers in light of our business progress and market demand.” The car is now available in Brazil, Ecuador, and soon in Colombia, in addition to Mexico.
BYD has six dealerships in Mexico and plans to have 50 (with a presence in all of Mexico’s 32 states) by the end of 2024. In February, BYD Americas CEO Stella Li told Reuters the company was looking for a plant in Mexico with a production capacity of 150,000 annually.
Mike Austin, senior research analyst for EVs and mobility at Guidehouse Insights, told Autoweek, “The threat of Chinese EVs made in Mexico is an additional risk to legacy manufacturers because the free trade agreement would make it difficult to impose any protectionist measures.
“Also, it’s not just EVs. Mass-market automakers, and particularly the American companies, have had waning interest in building affordable entry-level models for years. It’s exacerbated with EVs, because these companies haven’t worked through the cost improvements from scaling up while the Chinese companies have.”
Austin points to the made-in-China Volvo EX30 EV as showing “that Chinese manufacturers can make cost-competitive vehicles even with a tariff.” The EX30 sells for $34,950. Austin adds, “I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the historical similarity to the rise of Japanese automakers in the US market.”
In the US, automakers and their political representatives are becoming concerned.
John Bozzella, president and CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, representing carmakers, sees an advantage for China if the US moves to EVs too quickly—citing the EPA’s proposal to require 37% of new light-duty cars and trucks be battery-electric by 2027, and 60% by 2030. The Biden administration is considering weakening that standard.
In a blog post, Bozzella wrote that in a rapid shift to EVs, “Official US policy will have thrown open the doors (and the ports, as it were) to China. Before long, Chinese automakers will accelerate their entrance into the American market with low-priced EVs that meet the aggressive (and arbitrary) EPA requirements for model years 2027-2032.”
A report from the Alliance for American Manufacturing, released in February, also makes this point. The report describes as “alarming” the Chinese focus on building plants in Mexico. “They can access the United States by way of the more favorable tariffs under the USMCA. This strategy is, in effect, an effort to gain backdoor access to American consumers by circumventing existing policies that are keeping China’s autos out of the US market.”
A bipartisan group in Congress last year urged US Trade Representative Katherine Tai to increase the 25% tariff on imports from China, imposed during the Trump Administration. In a letter, they called for an investigation into “what actions should be taken to counter [China’s] industrial strategy to dominate the global automobile market.”
On March 5, US Senator Marco Rubio (R-Florida) called for increasing import tariffs by $20,000 to stop China “from flooding US auto markets.” Rubio said his legislation, with three bills, “would safeguard American automakers and workers against the influx of artificially cheap vehicles from China.”
But BYD’s Li insists the company’s focus is on local sales, and that it is not looking at possible sites conveniently close to the US border. BYD told Autoweek the company is “busy evaluating site candidates in a 124-mile radius around Mexico City, with a decision slated for the latter part of this year.”
In a Fortune interview last February, Li flatly denied interest in the American market. “We are not planning to come to the US,” she said. “It is an interesting market, but it is very complicated if you’re talking about EVs.” She said EV sales have experienced a slowdown in the US, while in China a company ignoring electric cars is “out. You will die, you have no future.”
Chinese-made cars are indeed popular in Mexico, accounting for nearly 20% of all sales there in 2023 through October, Bloomberg said. The low prices are a particular draw.
In the US now, BYD is a supplier of electric buses, trucks, and forklifts. The company reports that more than 1000 electric buses are “on the road or in production in the US.” The buses, built in Lancaster, California, have more than 70% US content. The buses have not generated a furor in Congress, but inexpensive electric BYDs coming in from Mexico are getting people hot.
As to where it will be sold, BYD said, “In Americas, Europe, Asia Pacific, and the Middle East, we will assess the appropriate timing for meeting our consumers in light of our business progress and market demand.” The car is now available in Brazil, Ecuador, and soon in Colombia, in addition to Mexico.
BYD has six dealerships in Mexico and plans to have 50 (with a presence in all of Mexico’s 32 states) by the end of 2024. In February, BYD Americas CEO Stella Li told Reuters the company was looking for a plant in Mexico with a production capacity of 150,000 annually.
Mike Austin, senior research analyst for EVs and mobility at Guidehouse Insights, told Autoweek, “The threat of Chinese EVs made in Mexico is an additional risk to legacy manufacturers because the free trade agreement would make it difficult to impose any protectionist measures.
“Also, it’s not just EVs. Mass-market automakers, and particularly the American companies, have had waning interest in building affordable entry-level models for years. It’s exacerbated with EVs, because these companies haven’t worked through the cost improvements from scaling up while the Chinese companies have.”
Austin points to the made-in-China Volvo EX30 EV as showing “that Chinese manufacturers can make cost-competitive vehicles even with a tariff.” The EX30 sells for $34,950. Austin adds, “I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the historical similarity to the rise of Japanese automakers in the US market.”
In the US, automakers and their political representatives are becoming concerned.
John Bozzella, president and CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, representing carmakers, sees an advantage for China if the US moves to EVs too quickly—citing the EPA’s proposal to require 37% of new light-duty cars and trucks be battery-electric by 2027, and 60% by 2030. The Biden administration is considering weakening that standard.
In a blog post, Bozzella wrote that in a rapid shift to EVs, “Official US policy will have thrown open the doors (and the ports, as it were) to China. Before long, Chinese automakers will accelerate their entrance into the American market with low-priced EVs that meet the aggressive (and arbitrary) EPA requirements for model years 2027-2032.”
A report from the Alliance for American Manufacturing, released in February, also makes this point. The report describes as “alarming” the Chinese focus on building plants in Mexico. “They can access the United States by way of the more favorable tariffs under the USMCA. This strategy is, in effect, an effort to gain backdoor access to American consumers by circumventing existing policies that are keeping China’s autos out of the US market.”
A bipartisan group in Congress last year urged US Trade Representative Katherine Tai to increase the 25% tariff on imports from China, imposed during the Trump Administration. In a letter, they called for an investigation into “what actions should be taken to counter [China’s] industrial strategy to dominate the global automobile market.”
On March 5, US Senator Marco Rubio (R-Florida) called for increasing import tariffs by $20,000 to stop China “from flooding US auto markets.” Rubio said his legislation, with three bills, “would safeguard American automakers and workers against the influx of artificially cheap vehicles from China.”
But BYD’s Li insists the company’s focus is on local sales, and that it is not looking at possible sites conveniently close to the US border. BYD told Autoweek the company is “busy evaluating site candidates in a 124-mile radius around Mexico City, with a decision slated for the latter part of this year.”
In a Fortune interview last February, Li flatly denied interest in the American market. “We are not planning to come to the US,” she said. “It is an interesting market, but it is very complicated if you’re talking about EVs.” She said EV sales have experienced a slowdown in the US, while in China a company ignoring electric cars is “out. You will die, you have no future.”
Chinese-made cars are indeed popular in Mexico, accounting for nearly 20% of all sales there in 2023 through October, Bloomberg said. The low prices are a particular draw.
In the US now, BYD is a supplier of electric buses, trucks, and forklifts. The company reports that more than 1000 electric buses are “on the road or in production in the US.” The buses, built in Lancaster, California, have more than 70% US content. The buses have not generated a furor in Congress, but inexpensive electric BYDs coming in from Mexico are getting people hot.
So you think they'll never do it?
You know they're building electric buses in CA already, right?
If you're betting they'll never sell cars here, I'll take the other side of that bet.
I think outsourcing our entire auto industry to the Chinese government would be a bad thing.
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The China tariffs have failed economically, politically and legally
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3681207-the-china-tariffs-have-failed-economically-politically-and-legally/
There are no less than a dozen threads discussing how horrible of an idea it would be if trump did it, and how it would end the american economy. My favorite is the "mainatream republican" responses.
I'm sure the usuals will be here to tell us how this is a dumb move now that Biden is doing it.
Biden has departed with the Clinton and recent Democrats’ free trade policies. He felt the tariffs were necessary to not lose the renewables war. China has been putting a lot more resources to renewable energy and the US needs to play catch up. Whether Biden’s tariffs level the field, it’s yet to be seen.
If Chinese automakers have no intentions of selling EVs in the United States then why did Biden impose a 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs?
Or, is the purpose of “Biden’s tariffs” to emulate what Trump has said he would do, in an attempt to get more votes for Biden?
I’m going to ask this again because you dodged it:
So you think they'll never do it?
If Chinese automakers have no intentions of selling EVs in the United States then why did Biden impose a 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs?
