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80% support voter ID

binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Voter ID is a reasonable requirement. The vast majority of Americans agree.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this is an oversimplification of the issue. If 1) there was an actual vote fraud problem to solve, and 2) this wasn’t clearly and demonstrably a tactic to suppress voting in highly specific communities—then maybe this wouldn’t be resisted by the Left.

Identifying oneself while voting is already happening. And that is, of course, a reasonable thing. But there is so much more to this. And it’s not good.

Want voter ID? Propose plans to ensure that everybody gets one, or tell me how some type of ID will get more people voting, not less.
 
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Rudolph said:
Yes, but this is an oversimplification of the issue. If 1) there was an actual vote fraud problem to solve, and 2) this wasn’t clearly and demonstrably a tactic to suppress voting in highly specific communities—then maybe this wouldn’t be resisted by the Left.

Identifying oneself while voting is already happening. And that is, of course, a reasonable thing. But there is so much more to this. And it’s not good.

Want voter ID? Propose plans to ensure that everybody gets one, or tell me how some type of ID will get more people voting, not less.
Click to expand...

What ACTUALLY needs fixing, is the states where people must wait 8-10 hours in line to vote.

That's obscene. And it's only getting worse with all the new state laws passed to exacerbate it.
Voter ID does NOTHING to solve that, and will only sap $$ and resources away from efforts to streamline voting for people.

This is by design for the GOP, because they KNOW that it is in the densely populated areas this will be a problem. When they can claim "we cannot fix that, because all our money is going to making IDs", democracy loses.
 
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Rudolph said:
Yes, but this is an oversimplification of the issue. If 1) there was an actual vote fraud problem to solve, and 2) this wasn’t clearly and demonstrably a tactic to suppress voting in highly specific communities—then maybe this wouldn’t be resisted by the Left.

Identifying oneself while voting is already happening. And that is, of course, a reasonable thing. But there is so much more to this. And it’s not good.

Want voter ID? Propose plans to ensure that everybody gets one, or tell me how some type of ID will get more people voting, not less.
Click to expand...
I’m all for making voter ID free
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Yes it is...and the vast majority of Americans agree.
Click to expand...

Most Americans are easily fooled, particularly by how the question is framed.

Try framing it as "Should there be national photo ID for voting, or should people be guaranteed a wait time of <30 minutes for voting?"

Which should be the "priority"?
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
I’m all for making voter ID free
Click to expand...
It's not "free". It will require resources.

Resources which will be taken away from efforts to streamline voting.
This is the playbook, bud. Make a rule that is expensive and time-consuming to implement, so that the resources needed to make voting faster and easier cannot be addressed. All the money is going to issuing and maintaining IDs. And people WILL need a new ID every 2-4 years if they are renters/non-property owners. Again - is that a "send a note to your voter registration place and they will just mail it to you"? Or "Oh, you have to come down to City Hall and stand in line for it?"

Just because they will make them for you "for free" doesn't mean they are not a significant impingement on the time of people who may not have flexible schedules to get one.
 
Joes Place said:
Most Americans are easily fooled, particularly by how the question is framed.

Try framing it as "Should there be national photo ID for voting, or should people be guaranteed a wait time of <30 minutes for voting?"

Which should be the "priority"?
Click to expand...
Why not have both Joe? It’s not a either or proposition.
 
Joes Place said:
Just because they will make them for you "for free" doesn't mean they are not a significant impingement on the time of people who may not have flexible schedules to get one.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don’t find that to be a very credible argument. A significant impingement of time? Get real....
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Sorry, I don’t find that to be a very credible argument. A significant impingement of time? Get real....
Click to expand...

Georgia voters waited in line for >8 hours to vote.

Have you been to a DMV to register a vehicle or get a license?
Now add in people who don't drive or are old, who need to get an ID. Many will require public transit to get to the ID place. Will that bus or Uber trip be "free"? Because if it's not, then it's effectively a Poll Tax.

Lots of people don't have the internet access and resources you do.
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Why not have both Joe? It’s not a either or proposition.
Click to expand...

If you have a limited amount of money to spend, it absolutely IS and either/or proposition.
ID implementation will be expensive to set up, and maintain. Dealing with lost IDs will be a "thing", and remember - there can be no "cost" for reissuance. That's literally a poll tax.
 
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Joes Place said:
Georgia voters waited in line for >8 hours to vote.

Have you been to a DMV to register a vehicle or get a license?
Now add in people who don't drive or are old, who need to get an ID. Many will require public transit to get to the ID place. Will that bus or Uber trip be "free"? Because if it's not, then it's effectively a Poll Tax.

Lots of people don't have the internet access and resources you do.
Click to expand...
1. Waiting in line 8 hrs had nothing to do with voter ID.
2. I think you vastly overstate the difficulties in getting an ID. It isn’t very hard and the vast majority of folks have photo ID already.
3. True, they probably have better internet access than I do :)
 
Joes Place said:
If you have a limited amount of money to spend, it absolutely IS and either/or proposition.
ID implementation will be expensive to set up, and maintain. Dealing with lost IDs will be a "thing", and remember - there can be no "cost" for reissuance. That's literally a poll tax.
Click to expand...
You better act quick Joe!!! The Dems are starting to flip on the issue....guess they looked at polling data.

Set them straight buddy!!!

 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Dems have to drop the “voter ID is voter suppression” BS.

www.google.com

80% Of Americans Support Voter ID Rules—But Fewer Worried About Fraud, Poll Finds

Americans are divided on whether to make voting easier or more restrictive as state lawmakers and the Senate weigh new voting legislation.
www.google.com www.google.com

Concentrate on getting rid of gerrymandering, increase early voting and ensuring enough polling places. Those are the main issues IMO.

Manchins plan is the way to go

www.google.com

Joe Manchin’s sweeping new voting rights proposal, explained

The pivotal senator has released a potentially transformative plan to promote fair elections.
www.google.com www.google.com
Click to expand...

What is the realized problem Voter ID resolves?

Gerrymandering, early voting, mail-in voting all need to happen.

Voting should be highly accessible. I support voter security, but not aware of real security issues today - just need to make sure any additional accessibility can't lead to security issues.

Crazy how these ideas have become polarizing.
 
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Joes Place said:
Do they have a choice, currently, if they want the other more important things addressed?
Click to expand...
Well if it’s the huge threat to democracy that you say it is I’d think they’d stick to their guns.

But it isn’t and they wisely won’t.
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Why? Like I said, I find it a reasonable requirement.
Click to expand...
Why? Why is it necessary when there isn't voter fraud? This is all bullshit. Then please learn why it isn't easy for some people, who generally are people of color, to get the type of ID that Republicans want them to get. Yeah it sounds really easy...but it isn't when you look into it, which I doubt you have.

Again...because of a massive lie. Also again, if the democrats said, "Absolutely we will give you voter ID.", the Cons will still vote against the bill...because they want these states to make it as hard as possible to vote, gerrymander districts, and anything else they can think of to grab minority rule...which isn't democracy.
 
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Tom Paris said:
Then please learn why it isn't easy for some people, who generally are people of color, to get the type of ID that Republicans want them to get. Yeah it sounds really easy...but it isn't when you look into it, which I doubt you have.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on why it’s difficult for people of color to get photo ID?
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
1. Waiting in line 8 hrs had nothing to do with voter ID.
2. I think you vastly overstate the difficulties in getting an ID. It isn’t very hard and the vast majority of folks have photo ID already.
3. True, they probably have better internet access than I do :)
Click to expand...
Actually, your #1 is wrong.
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Could you elaborate on why it’s difficult for people of color to get photo ID?
Click to expand...
Look, this is simple.
Who is least likely to have a current form of government issue ID?
How do these people typically vote?
Ah, okay, well then let’s create a bogeyman notion of voter fraud so we can pass legislation to require ID.

And they keep beating the drum until eventually people start to acquiesce. And here you are, setting aside obvious bullshit disingenuous-at-best tactics because the drumbeat apparently has gotten you entranced.
 
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Rudolph said:
Look, this is simple.
Who is least likely to have a current form of government issue ID?
How do these people typically vote?
Ah, okay, well then let’s create a bogeyman notion of voter fraud so we can pass legislation to require ID.

And they keep beating the drum until eventually people start to acquiesce. And here you are, setting aside obvious bullshit disingenuous-at-best tactics because the drumbeat apparently has gotten you entranced.
Click to expand...
Who’s the least likely to have a government issued ID and why?
 
SoMplsHawkI said:
Really? You need THAT explained to you? The cell phone I control? Turn off and on at my pleasure? Not government issued? REALLY?

Stop being dumb.
Click to expand...
Hey dipstick leave your card on your desk by your pc. You only need it on voting day. That way they will think you never leave your parents basement.

JFC the stupid s*** on here.

GD life is hard for some.
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Could you elaborate on why it’s difficult for people of color to get photo ID?
Click to expand...
Again, please read...it isn't as easy as you think and many people don't need ID to go about their daily lives.

Voter ID 101: The Right to Vote Shouldn't Come With Barriers

indivisible.org indivisible.org




www.bbc.com

US election 2020: Why it can be hard to vote in the US

Long queues, weird rules and strict ID laws... what are the barriers to voting and why do they exist?
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
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NorthernHawkeye said:
You're displaying the soft bigotry of low expectations.

This video shows how liberals think and how minorities feel about about it.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
I have always felt like those who claim Voter ID was a way to keep minorities from voting have never actually asked that segment of the populous how they really feel....to claim that a group, based on the color of their skin, is unable to get an ID card is ridiculous........
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Don’t see it as a big drain on resources Joe. Vast majority of folks already have photo ID.
Click to expand...

Vast majority? Maybe.
Significant minority that does not: yep.

And which IDs will be accepted? If your DL doesn't have the current address on it because you moved, is your vote now not accepted?

Someone posted that it was 7%+ of the US adult population that does not hold a DL.
Elections have been decided by 1/10th of that, and less.
 
Hawkman34 said:
to claim that a group, based on the color of their skin, is unable to get an ID card is ridiculous........
Click to expand...

It's a claim that poorer people will not have readily available access, and that it will be difficult for them to obtain one. Particularly if they do not have internet or regular transportation, because now you're requiring them to take a half a day or more to go get a photo ID.

Will they send trucks out to retirement homes to allow those folks to apply for one?
 
Tom Paris said:
Again, please read...it isn't as easy as you think and many people don't need ID to go about their daily lives.

Voter ID 101: The Right to Vote Shouldn't Come With Barriers

indivisible.org indivisible.org


View embedded media


www.bbc.com

US election 2020: Why it can be hard to vote in the US

Long queues, weird rules and strict ID laws... what are the barriers to voting and why do they exist?
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...

"But, it's easy for me, because I'm middle class and white. So it must be easy for everyone"
 
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Rudolph said:
Look, this is simple.
Who is least likely to have a current form of government issue ID?
How do these people typically vote?
Ah, okay, well then let’s create a bogeyman notion of voter fraud so we can pass legislation to require ID.

And they keep beating the drum until eventually people start to acquiesce. And here you are, setting aside obvious bullshit disingenuous-at-best tactics because the drumbeat apparently has gotten you entranced.
Click to expand...
"Let's force municipalities to spend another 10% or more of their voter budgets on worthless IDs, so they cannot afford the resources for more voting stations, more throughput and more efficient systems."
 
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binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
Well if it’s the huge threat to democracy that you say it is I’d think they’d stick to their guns.
Click to expand...

The choice is let that go, or allow all the other voter suppression actions go.

Are you simply stupid? or just ignorant of what it's like to vote in some of those states?
 
Tom Paris said:
Again, please read...it isn't as easy as you think and many people don't need ID to go about their daily lives.

Voter ID 101: The Right to Vote Shouldn't Come With Barriers

indivisible.org indivisible.org


View embedded media


www.bbc.com

US election 2020: Why it can be hard to vote in the US

Long queues, weird rules and strict ID laws... what are the barriers to voting and why do they exist?
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
So is the premise here that poor whites can easily obtain ID but poor people of color can’t?

How does that work?

I read the articles...thanks for providing them. Didn’t listen to the NPR piece but I’ll give it a listen on the way into work tomorrow. Thanks.
 
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