B1G Seed Predictions

98lberEating2Lunches

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Feb 11, 2018
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What happened with starcrotch missing his big showdown?
Maybe PSU had Starocci strategically sit against Labriola with the idea that a fresher Labriola would have a better chance to win against Kemerer and further drop his seeds. Starocci's sitting out against Ohio State the Friday before and taping up his left hand and wrist against Rider two weekends later could've been for show.

Then again, maybe Starocci really did tweak his hand/wrist against Kemerer, and the risk of further injury and potential for that injury to lead to a loss versus Labriola or Romero wasn't worth the benefit of wins against either.
 
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johnyt9

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Maybe PSU had Starocci strategically sit against Labriola with the idea that a fresher Labriola would have a better chance to win against Kemerer and further drop his seeds. Starocci's sitting out against Ohio State the Friday before and taping up his left hand and wrist against Rider two weekends later could've been for show.

Then again, maybe Starocci really did tweak his hand/wrist against Kemerer, and the risk of further injury and potential for that injury to lead to a loss versus Labriola or Romero wasn't worth the benefit of wins against either.
you may not have realized that it was a rhetorical question. Iowa fans aren;t calling out Starocci for "ducking". Just demonstrating a point that some times guys need a week off to mend to nagging injuries as you have demonstrated with Starocci. Yet, PSU fans constantly say an Iowa guy is ducking if they take a week off

Also @mcpat you did actually see that it was suggested here that Murin was tending to a nagging injury. I read your post on BWI where you said as much and just shrugged it off as BS.
 

johnyt9

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Jun 24, 2020
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Additionally, How the F are we still having this "ducking" conversation. Ya'll ripped on Spencer and Kem all November/December for not wrestling and I think we have seen the reason why for both situations.

Nick Lee misses a match against Rivera and no one bats and eye. But sure Iowa is ducking when it doesn;t effect seedings...
 

MVPFAN

HR Heisman
Mar 10, 2003
8,664
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In 2019 there were a couple of brackets where the #1 & #2 seeds didn’t get byes. In 2020 &2021 all #1 & #2 seeds received byes. Is it a rule now where the top two seeds get the byes? Just curious.
Yes, 1 and 2 always have byes since they started seeding out the whole bracket vs seeding part and drawing the rest.
 
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Dec 31, 2015
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It’s good thing TnT don’t give a shit about what “look” it is/was…. They care much more about doing what’s best for each individual athlete.

“Ducking” is simply a horrible choice of word in this instance.
I’m with you, but it sure as hell would be the word some of us would use if the shoe was on the other foot…in fact some of us use it frequently.
 
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johnyt9

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I’m with you, but it sure as hell would be the word we use if the shoe was on the other foot…in fact we use it frequently.
Do we??? I don;t notice a lot of Hawk fans calling out ppl for ducking. I see it from PSU fans and other about Iowa constantly.

Hawk fans will use it tongue in cheek about situations like Pat Glory, who notoriously said Spencer was ducking him.
 

funnyfletcher

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Apr 29, 2008
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Most likely Eierman will be the 3 seed and Rivera the 2 since Rivera is undefeated. Actually helps if Eierman can get bonus against the 14 seed. The one and two seeds gets byes in the first round.
I think Byrd at 33 may be undefeated as well. Wonder if they'd put DeSanto as the 3 seed, he'd most likely get a TF against the 14
 
Dec 31, 2015
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Do we??? I don;t notice a lot of Hawk fans calling out ppl for ducking. I see it from PSU fans and other about Iowa constantly.

Hawk fans will use it tongue in cheek about situations like Pat Glory, who notoriously said Spencer was ducking him.
I edited to say some of us…and yes, some of us do when we think it’s the case…we do have some fans that are calculating and others who are more “let it fly” type fans.
 

mcpat

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Nov 20, 2021
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you may not have realized that it was a rhetorical question. Iowa fans aren;t calling out Starocci for "ducking". Just demonstrating a point that some times guys need a week off to mend to nagging injuries as you have demonstrated with Starocci. Yet, PSU fans constantly say an Iowa guy is ducking if they take a week off

Also @mcpat you did actually see that it was suggested here that Murin was tending to a nagging injury. I read your post on BWI where you said as much and just shrugged it off as BS.
You’ll have to show me that. I’ll then show you where I defended that he wasn’t ducking - because it made no sense- and how I was legitimately wondering if he was hurt, being challenged by the starting spot by a very good Turk or having trouble making weight. Your own guys were posting on the PSU board that it was a bad look. I came here to ask what was going on and was met with mostly derogatory answers. As if a top 10 guy missing 2 of the last 3 matches isn’t newsworthy. And no - I didn’t pay enough attention to Iowa to know he’s been wearing an arm brace, although at least that response provided good info. If someone covered this kind of thing better, I wouldn’t come here to ask and be mocked.
 

mcpat

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Post #191. I point out that it’s unlikely he was ducking because the seed difference would be 4 vs 5 and therefore no benefit and that the record preservation argument makes no sense because he’s an at-large on two other criteria regardless. I go on to speculate that Turk is maybe challenging for the spot.

Later, in post 199, I mention that someone here insinuated he was hurt and I acknowledge that makes the most sense. No one came out at that point yet and said he was hurt, so “insinuated” was the right word. When I wrote post #199, you were at post #20 in this thread.

In between the posts 191 and 199, I twice make an argument that Turk might be challenging for the spot.
 
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Gobblin

HR Heisman
Oct 29, 2011
5,166
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Do we??? I don;t notice a lot of Hawk fans calling out ppl for ducking. I see it from PSU fans and other about Iowa constantly.

Hawk fans will use it tongue in cheek about situations like Pat Glory, who notoriously said Spencer was ducking him.
The only reference I’ve ever made to “ducking” was when Tan Tom did years ago with Pucillo when he was set to face Herbert in a late season dual. That’s the original, blatant “duck”.

I don’t bitch, whine, and question our staff or wrestlers when a starter misses a dual because I know for a fact they don’t operate that way. If a starter doesn’t wrestle, there’s a damn good reason every time and it has nothing to do with protecting a seed or a potential loss. This year especially, the evidence of it is staring everyone with an ounce of common sense and/or wrestling knowledge right in the face.

Edited to say I wasn’t lecturing you by any means as I’m pretty sure sure you agree with me on this subject.
 
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so cal hawkfan

HR All-American
Jun 5, 2012
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Lots of instances where we as outsiders (fans) looking in can see something that looks like wrester a is ducking wrestler b. e.g. Your guy just took a couple of tough losses trying to come back from an injury, is it ducking for the coach to sit him against his upcoming top 5 ranked kid? Is the coach protecting him so he can physically heal, or mentally get right? To me it’s only ducking when a higher ranked kid who is healthy sits out vs a lower ranked opponent in order to protect his seeding. We don’t typically have the inside info as to the level of health for an athlete, so we speculate.
 
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johnyt9

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Post #191. I point out that it’s unlikely he was ducking because the seed difference would be 4 vs 5 and therefore no benefit and that the record preservation argument makes no sense because he’s an at-large on two other criteria regardless. I go on to speculate that Turk is maybe challenging for the spot.

Later, in post 199, I mention that someone here insinuated he was hurt and I acknowledge that makes the most sense. No one came out at that point yet and said he was hurt, so “insinuated” was the right word. When I wrote post #199, you were at post #20 in this thread.

In between the posts 191 and 199, I twice make an argument that Turk might be challenging for the spot.
You're right I miss remembered the order of your posts,

The main reason I questioned it was because within the span of about 20 minutes you give 6 options and say you lean toward the fact that Turk may be challenging for the spot (Why? Murin has looked great all year, Turk hasn't been able to finish on anyone) to then later state injury is more likely. _ I guess I misinterpreted your "someone on HR insinuated he's banged up" to be disingenuous when I then saw your post on this thread, today, that you hadn't heard he was banged up.
 

mcpat

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You're right I miss remembered the order of your posts,

The main reason I questioned it was because within the span of about 20 minutes you give 6 options and say you lean toward the fact that Turk may be challenging for the spot (Why? Murin has looked great all year, Turk hasn't been able to finish on anyone) to then later state injury is more likely. _ I guess I misinterpreted your "someone on HR insinuated he's banged up" to be disingenuous when I then saw your post on this thread, today, that you hadn't heard he was banged up.
Without knowing he was banged up (which is on me for not remembering the arm wrap), it made sense to me at the time. I had looked up Turk not too long ago; he’s won his share of matches. He won 3 matches at nationals a few years ago, I believe. When there are three highly ranked opponents in a row and you alternate starters, an argument could be you’re evaluating them. I stopped once I was corrected.
 

johnyt9

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Jun 24, 2020
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Without knowing he was banged up (which is on me for not remembering the arm wrap), it made sense to me at the time. I had looked up Turk not too long ago; he’s won his share of matches. He won 3 matches at nationals a few years ago, I believe. When there are three highly ranked opponents in a row and you alternate starters, an argument could be you’re evaluating them. I stopped once I was corrected.
anyone who watches Iowa regularly could tell you that is a silly assumption Murin is a 4 year starter (2 R12, 1 year covid - 8 seed?) and wrestling the best we've ever seen him (Wins over Parker, Gfeller, Yahya, and I'll even say the Bartlett win was impressive, and about 15 seconds away from upsetting Sasso).

Just seems weird to me that you;d push your opinion out there so hard knowing it is uninformed - alas, welcome to 2022
 

mcpat

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Nov 20, 2021
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anyone who watches Iowa regularly could tell you that is a silly assumption Murin is a 4 year starter (2 R12, 1 year covid - 8 seed?) and wrestling the best we've ever seen him (Wins over Parker, Gfeller, Yahya, and I'll even say the Bartlett win was impressive, and about 15 seconds away from upsetting Sasso).

Just seems weird to me that you;d push your opinion out there so hard knowing it is uninformed - alas, welcome to 2022
I said there were 5 possibilities, I threw out two of them and said I was “leaning” towards one of the others. 30 minutes later I acknowledged that wasn’t it because someone here, very indirectly, said it was likely something else. I then let it go. You categorizing that as me “pushing” my opinion “so hard” is what I would categorize as “welcome to 2022”.

Edit: once again, I find myself being called out here for something innocuously posted on a different board. The nerve of me to say your 149 starter isn’t ducking but instead MIGHT be getting challenged by a senior that won 3 matches at nationals the last time he was the starter. (And then letting it go completely 30 mins later when I’m kinda sort of corrected.)
 
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pml_dad

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Feb 27, 2019
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I'm just wondering how Manning is going to react when he realizes Labriola's good seeding fortune has actually turned to ruin, and the full weight of his miscalculation leaves him reeling knowing that now nobody can protect Labriola from Gerrit Ninjahouse 1st match.
 

johnyt9

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I said there were 5 possibilities, I threw out two of them and said I was “leaning” towards one of the others. 30 minutes later I acknowledged that wasn’t it because someone here, very indirectly, said it was likely something else. I then let it go. You categorizing that as me “pushing” my opinion “so hard” is what I would categorize as “welcome to 2022”.
You made 3-4 posts about it on BWI and another about it here. 3 of those posts (#191, #193, #196 were wondering aloud about Turk pushing Murin and/or the weight being undecided. That is pushing the opinion pretty hard when you later admitted to not watching much of Murin to the point of not remembering or noticing the arm sleeve, in conjuction with Murin's results noted above.

turks results for reference are a bunch of uninspiring wins and a loss to Iowa teammate RS FR Bretli Reyna in addition to the losses to Gomez and Lovett

PS I dont mean to mock or be derogatory to you, just pointing out what I see as unnecessary and/or excessive. I actually find you to be one of the most reasonable PSU posters here

Edit: I take it back - may be not all that reasonable. Re read. You were called out b/c you said on this thread you hadn;t heard of a possible nagging injury, when you actually said on the other board you had heard of the injury. Everything else mentioned thereafter was a result of the ongoing conversation
 
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GoHawks1996

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Feb 17, 2021
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I said there were 5 possibilities, I threw out two of them and said I was “leaning” towards one of the others. 30 minutes later I acknowledged that wasn’t it because someone here, very indirectly, said it was likely something else. I then let it go. You categorizing that as me “pushing” my opinion “so hard” is what I would categorize as “welcome to 2022”.

Edit: once again, I find myself being called out here for something innocuously posted on a different board. The nerve of me to say your 149 starter isn’t ducking but instead MIGHT be getting challenged by a senior that won 3 matches at nationals the last time he was the starter. (And then letting it go completely 30 mins later when I’m kinda sort of corrected.)
Gosh doesn't it suck how badly you get bullied here? Man it's terrible, I guess you should just stay at home on your Penn State board and not come here anymore. 👋👋
 

Iowabandwagon

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Jan 21, 2019
692
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I missed the part where you offered a reason for why he didn’t wrestle and you missed the post where I said it wasn’t ducking. So I’m still wondering if he’s banged up, struggling with weight or if Turk is challenging to be the starter.
I shouldn’t respond to you because you’re like an old lunch lady who never stops talking but…you started with “if it’s not seed protection…” come on man. Don’t play dumb. He didn’t sit against sasso just like carter didn’t sit against kem. These top programs don’t really duck. Well, some might but Iowa and penn state coaches have a bit too much invested in their reputations to do it, IMO. Wrestlers have injuries literally all the time. You have to manage them. This isn’t the era of walking with a limp from 35 years old on because you wrestled 3 years with 2 broken bones and 4 ruptured ligaments. Let’s not play dumb. They’re somewhere between slightly injured and seriously injured and coaches have to manage accordingly. It’s that simple. I mean, we could all just have torn ACL’s and go out there and give it a go, right? Some are built different.
 

Iowabandwagon

HR All-State
Jan 21, 2019
692
1,239
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Maybe PSU had Starocci strategically sit against Labriola with the idea that a fresher Labriola would have a better chance to win against Kemerer and further drop his seeds. Starocci's sitting out against Ohio State the Friday before and taping up his left hand and wrist against Rider two weekends later could've been for show.

Then again, maybe Starocci really did tweak his hand/wrist against Kemerer, and the risk of further injury and potential for that injury to lead to a loss versus Labriola or Romero wasn't worth the benefit of wins against either.
See, and all this time I thought carter was just covering up his Apple Watch so he could study his heart rate in match to make sure he doesn’t gas again. And maybe, just maybe murin doesn’t wear that elbow sleeve to cover up a tattoo of his girlfriend. Who knows? We live in a world full of your maybes.
 

mcpat

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Nov 20, 2021
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I shouldn’t respond to you because you’re like an old lunch lady who never stops talking but…you started with “if it’s not seed protection…” come on man. Don’t play dumb. He didn’t sit against sasso just like carter didn’t sit against kem. These top programs don’t really duck. Well, some might but Iowa and penn state coaches have a bit too much invested in their reputations to do it, IMO. Wrestlers have injuries literally all the time. You have to manage them. This isn’t the era of walking with a limp from 35 years old on because you wrestled 3 years with 2 broken bones and 4 ruptured ligaments. Let’s not play dumb. They’re somewhere between slightly injured and seriously injured and coaches have to manage accordingly. It’s that simple. I mean, we could all just have torn ACL’s and go out there and give it a go, right? Some are built different.
If you read the entirety of six posts I made over the course of 30 mins, most of which were part of an active discussion on the PSU board, and try to not be fixated on one qualifying word, you’ll find I argued Murin wasn’t ducking and I speculated Turk could be challenging for the spot on the basis that Murin had wrestled against OKST while Turk wrestled on either side. I dropped it as soon as an Iowa fan said otherwise. I’m sorry that it failed HR standards.
 
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Inthecircle

HR MVP
Apr 3, 2018
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Meanwhile back at the ranch.
125-bottom side is best
133-finalist
141-finalist if sea bass is hurt
149- 3rd to 5th
157- finalist
165- finalist
174- sucks he’s wrestling with half a body
184- needs to qualify for NCAA’s
197- Brucki in the quarters if he’s #4, scary
285-2nd to 4th
 

mcpat

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Nov 20, 2021
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You made 3-4 posts about it on BWI and another about it here. 3 of those posts (#191, #193, #196 were wondering aloud about Turk pushing Murin and/or the weight being undecided. That is pushing the opinion pretty hard when you later admitted to not watching much of Murin to the point of not remembering or noticing the arm sleeve, in conjuction with Murin's results noted above.

turks results for reference are a bunch of uninspiring wins and a loss to Iowa teammate RS FR Bretli Reyna in addition to the losses to Gomez and Lovett

PS I dont mean to mock or be derogatory to you, just pointing out what I see as unnecessary and/or excessive. I actually find you to be one of the most reasonable PSU posters here

Edit: I take it back - may be not all that reasonable. Re read. You were called out b/c you said on this thread you hadn;t heard of a possible nagging injury, when you actually said on the other board you had heard of the injury. Everything else mentioned thereafter was a result of the ongoing conversation
You had timing wrong before and you have it wrong again.
 

johnyt9

All-Conference
Jun 24, 2020
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I missed the part where you offered a reason for why he didn’t wrestle and you missed the post where I said it wasn’t ducking. So I’m still wondering if he’s banged up, struggling with weight or if Turk is challenging to be the starter.
This post came the day after all of the other posts
You had timing wrong before and you have it wrong again.
 

mcpat

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Nov 20, 2021
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How about I agree to go away and you agree to not tag me or ask me questions that I feel compelled to answer? Everyone wins.
 

johnyt9

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How about I agree to go away and you agree to not tag me or ask me questions that I feel compelled to answer? Everyone wins.
I actually tagged you b/c in the past I have felt you to be reasonable over here, if not I wouldn't have bothered engaging. I'm not the one that asked you to leave. I only added my 'edit' to my comment after you added yours - more of a joke than anything
 

WildTurk

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How about I agree to go away and you agree to not tag me or ask me questions that I feel compelled to answer? Everyone wins.
You poke the bear here, then get some flack. Then you get upset about it and talk about leaving. Then you go back home to BWI and complain to them about what happend on HR to you so you can get some support. I've seen you do it many times.

How many times are you going to talk about leaving only to return again and start the same process over?
 
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mcpat

Scout Team
Nov 20, 2021
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You poke the bear here, then get some flack. Then you get upset about it and talk about leaving. Then you go back home to BWI and complain to them about what happend on HR to you so you can get some support. I've seen you do it many times.

How many times are you going to talk about leaving only to return again and start the same process over? Quit being such a giant pussy and figure out how these message boards work. Your like a teenage girl pulling this crap.
Okay dude. Wow.

I was talking about leaving this discussion alone. And I didn’t poke any bears on this one. I can tell people are sick of hearing from me on this one and I’m saying let’s be done with it.
 

TNTwrestle

HR MVP
Dec 10, 2006
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I don't care what he (or anyone else) said on that other board. I have never been there and have no intention of going. I wish some of their people felt the same way. It just proves they have "little Brother " syndrome, and it will take a long time before they grow up. I think Carl is a fraud as a coach, and if it weren't for money and CC their "dynasty" would collapse. If they ever do catch up to us in titles, and I live to see it, I won't be heading to their board to see what the king has to say. If they aren't playing by the rules, it will catch up to them someday, although it seems the rules are changing to suit them better. I'm happy for the athletes that they can get NIL money to help them, but I'm afraid it will ruin college sports.
 

sdvike

HR MVP
Feb 23, 2016
1,242
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Meanwhile back at the ranch.
125-bottom side is best
133-finalist
141-finalist if sea bass is hurt
149- 3rd to 5th
157- finalist
165- finalist
174- sucks he’s wrestling with half a body
184- needs to qualify for NCAA’s
197- Brucki in the quarters if he’s #4, scary
285-2nd to 4th
141 is loaded. I think JE beats Seabass hurt or healthy. I actually think Red or Micic has a 50/50 shot against a healthy Seabass in the wrestlebacks.
Wouldnt pick against him but Desanto going to have a tough semi.
Ayala might have to avenge losses against both Hildebrandt and Hinselman to get to Suriano.
Warner can beat anybody in top 10 nationally and can lose to any of them. I learned to just take him for what he is.
 

TNTwrestle

HR MVP
Dec 10, 2006
1,103
2,099
113
64
141 is loaded. I think JE beats Seabass hurt or healthy. I actually think Red or Micic has a 50/50 shot against a healthy Seabass in the wrestlebacks.
Wouldnt pick against him but Desanto going to have a tough semi.
Ayala might have to avenge losses against both Hildebrandt and Hinselman to get to Suriano.
Warner can beat anybody in top 10 nationally and can lose to any of them. I learned to just take him for what he is.
Ayala didn't lose to Hildebrandt, Ybarra did. Ayala should be able to beat both, depending on how much the injury affects him.
 

Inthecircle

HR MVP
Apr 3, 2018
1,465
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141 is loaded. I think JE beats Seabass hurt or healthy. I actually think Red or Micic has a 50/50 shot against a healthy Seabass in the wrestlebacks.
Wouldnt pick against him but Desanto going to have a tough semi.
Ayala might have to avenge losses against both Hildebrandt and Hinselman to get to Suriano.
Warner can beat anybody in top 10 nationally and can lose to any of them. I learned to just take him for what he is.
I hope we’re pleasantly surprised by Ayala. If he’s a 7 and McKee a 10, me know likey. Hopefully he’s getting better against length
I agree with Red. Micic is 6-4 haven’t followed him,
I am not quite as accepting of Warner. He frustrates the s**t out of me. He is really good on his feet and needs more than 1 takedown a match. It’s so doable.
How 285 is seeded from 2-4 is the most interesting in my mind
 
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