I am of the opinion that unless a college coach is extremely interested in a kid, most will not go to a high school game. They use the AAU tournaments to weed out who they are interested in, and if they decide they really want a kid, they will then contact the high school coach for film and maybe watch them play a high school game or two. Just think of the expense and logistics of getting a college coach to high school games during their season.
Barnstormers 17's
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I have dealt with a lot of college coaches over the years and some of what you are saying is accurate, however, there are logical explanations. College coaches can easily attend AAU events in the spring and summer-- it does not interfere with their own season, plus they can evaluate a larger number of athletes at a major AAU event. That being said-- EVERY college coach at every level has always wanted to see our kids play in a high school setting as well. In most cases they want to know what games will be the most competitive and on the biggest stage (this is why the state tournament is always a great venue to recruit) How does the kid respond under pressure? That is, with a real crowd, media present, intense preparation and coaching, and where winning matters. An AAU setting cannot recreate any of those characteristics which are more representative of a college game. A college coach can gather equally important information from both AAU events and high school games when recruiting a player.
Just a silly little observation from a message board poster, but didn't Iowa send an assistant coach to Oskaloosa just to watch this kid workout?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...foster-grabbing-division--attention/91944668/
Wow, what a waste of time if all they have to do is go to AAU games and show up for a high school game once or twice.
OR, maybe recruiting is just a little more intense than another message board poster makes it out to be when explaining the whole process in a paragraph?
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...foster-grabbing-division--attention/91944668/
Wow, what a waste of time if all they have to do is go to AAU games and show up for a high school game once or twice.
OR, maybe recruiting is just a little more intense than another message board poster makes it out to be when explaining the whole process in a paragraph?
Not to mention AAU coaches only see/care about basketball. College coaches ALWAYS speak with their HS coach because they are able to comment about their academics and citizenship in a school setting. Barnstormers is one of the best AAU programs in the country, their program is more of an exception as opposed to the norm. AAU programs are mostly in it as a private company to get $ and most of them are garbage
I guess I thought it was obvious that if a prospect is within driving distance, that it is a little easier to see them in High School, therefore a staff member is more likely to see high school games and workouts. My statements/thoughts were based on more of a national recruiting level. I am sure Rick Pitino does not go to a high school game to watch someone that he is not very interested in if they go to high school in Florida, however, he or someone from his staff is seen at New Albany High School fairly regularly.
Coco, your comments about the refs in AAU, summer ball in general is spot on. It's worse than NBA playoff reffing.
We did play the Barnstormers 12U in Minneapolis, lost by 1, had a sideline inbounds play with 4 seconds left for the win. Executed perfectly but the shot didn't go down. Loved the way the Barnstormers played, their coaches were great guys, definitely more impressed with how they did things compared to other teams there.
We did play the Barnstormers 12U in Minneapolis, lost by 1, had a sideline inbounds play with 4 seconds left for the win. Executed perfectly but the shot didn't go down. Loved the way the Barnstormers played, their coaches were great guys, definitely more impressed with how they did things compared to other teams there.
Well that's also because the high school basketball season falls during the same time period as the college basketball season. If it were during the summer like AAU is, maybe you'd see Pitino attend more recruits' HS BB games
Exactly, that is the point I am trying to make, logistics to get to high school basketball games for a college coach are tough, particularly if you are not recruiting someone near campus.
I get your point, but to me it is stunning just how often Iowa has guys at games, during the season, and not just local games. (That's present times) I can also say for a fact that I've seen travel documents (years past) that showed certain assistants practically living in places like Michigan for a month. (One of my favorites was the yearly trip to Vegas by Dr. Tom.
, I mean, maybe there's a reason his kid was named Keno.) I don't know, there is no doubt the advent of AAU has changed recruiting, and maybe I'm wrong, but contact periods and WHEN AAU is going on actually lends to the opposite of what you are saying. Many times of the year, high school games are still, seriously, the only game in town. And I don't consider Spirit Lake, Sioux City, even Clinton, Iowa, to be exactly a short drive. But I know Iowa has assistants, and sometimes Fran himself, at many games.
I just don't believe we should discount that, nor the communication with Iowa High School coaches which is done all the time.
I'll buy what you are selling about coaches at AAU events. Clearly a big part of the efforts. But I'm selling that I know that even during the season Iowa has coaches practically everywhere, not just in state either. It does remain a major part of recruiting.
Keep in mind that colleges have 40 recruiting days from late Nov through early March. This falls during their season when they are playing games, practicing, scouting/breaking down video, etc. Schools tend to send multiple coaches out on the same night because it still counts as 1 of the 40 they get, but rarely do most schools come close to using all of their nights due to being involved with their teams. That's why the explosion of grassroots/AAU has happened in the past 20 years... it allows coaches to view a lot of players in a short period of time in the spring. They then might go see some at their HS for an open gym or have these guys come to camps or make unofficials in May/June. Then, in July, they focus in our their top guys at the larger tournaments again to hopefully get some of them to verbal before school starts. In the fall they will hit HS open gyms too. Then, it's back to the in-season grind trying to fit in recruiting off-campus when possible.
They still talk to HS coaches and go to games... but it's usually schools in their area or players they saw on the road in spring/summer they are recruiting fairly hard.
Thank you for lending your experience to the board. And my compliments for your great site, which I follow to check out player stats.
http://www.barnstormersbasketball.com/
If I can ask a question. You guys had Happ on one of your younger squads. I've always wondered how his first three offers came so fast from three different Wisconsin schools? Do you know if he attended a camp up there somewhere? (Which we haven't even mentioned camps as part of the recruiting process.) I've always thought they must have had a look at him up there, sooner than other schools. (Or more like at the right time in his development.)
Thanks for helping these kids out.
And, do you happen to have any insight on Xavier Foster out of Oskaloosa? I don't think he is currently a Barnstormer, (Pure Prep Academy...whom I've never heard of) but have you seen him play and what do you think of his game? Way, way too early but I see Future 150 has him as #1 in Iowa and #28 overall.
(Here's a look at Foster for everyone. This is a game, not a hilite real. He comes off the bench at about the 14:30 mark. )
(And here is for the can he dunk crowd (Music not my idea
) )
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Happ split time with us and another team. We had a Top 25 rated team that drew a lot of attention and made a couple of deep runs in events to include one at Spiece where he played well. Coaches from all over Midwest are at these and it just happened that the WI schools jumped early. Many schools had contacted us, but he ended up going to a camp at Wisconsin and it basically ended there. It's been a good fit for him and he's done well.Thank you for lending your experience to the board. And my compliments for your great site, which I follow to check out player stats.
http://www.barnstormersbasketball.com/
If I can ask a question. You guys had Happ on one of your younger squads. I've always wondered how his first three offers came so fast from three different Wisconsin schools? Do you know if he attended a camp up there somewhere? (Which we haven't even mentioned camps as part of the recruiting process.) I've always thought they must have had a look at him up there, sooner than other schools. (Or more like at the right time in his development.)
Thanks for helping these kids out.
And, do you happen to have any insight on Xavier Foster out of Oskaloosa? I don't think he is currently a Barnstormer, (Pure Prep Academy...whom I've never heard of) but have you seen him play and what do you think of his game? Way, way too early but I see Future 150 has him as #1 in Iowa and #28 overall.
(Here's a look at Foster for everyone. This is a game, not a hilite real. He comes off the bench at about the 14:30 mark. )
(And here is for the can he dunk crowd (Music not my idea
Foster plays for a smaller group out of Des Moines. I know some rate him #1 in the state but keep in mind that's based on the early offers or long term potential because at this point there are others who are more productive in that class in the state.
I like him. He's long and moves well and also has a nice touch on his jumper. Also does well blocking shots. He needs to get stronger and learn to mix it up and bang inside... learn to attack the rim. I think he's a kid who will get better in the next year or two and think if he played against the top guys in roughly the 40 games we play each spring and summer would help him elevate his play and improve. We have a 6-8 kid from Regina who has improved a ton in the past 18 months... Iowa has been to watch him. He's only getting better and some of that is he's playing against so many great players it really pushed him which has toughened him up some and helped him understand what's needed to be successful. Those two bigs on the floor together would be a nasty combo in the next couple of years and would push them in practice. So, both kids are bigs who could potentially play at Iowa.
Thank you. Somebody get Foster a Barnstormers uniform!
I will probably never get to see a game you guys coach, but seeing the results, you've got a fan.I still think Happ travels alot in the lane
well at least against us anywayHe's about a mover.I still think Happ travels alot in the lane
You may be right, which may also explain why so many great college players (not necessarily pro prospects) end up playing for mid level teams. Coaches at the Power 5 and a select few other schools can possibly get buy with exploiting the AAU circuit. Coaches at mid level programs and below don't have that luxury. They have to find players elsewhere and that elsewhere is high school games.
Heck Fran said that the first time he noticed Nicholas Baer was when he played against West at the State Tournament. I know he played AAU ball, but for some reason none of those coaches who saw him thought he was good enough to play for them. Perhaps AAU ball isn't the best place for some players to showcase who they are as a player and high school basketball is.
There are exceptions to every rule. Generally, AAU competition is the best place to see whether a player has the requisite ability to match up against the type of talent he will face in college. When college coaches go to high school games it's not really to "scout" the player it is to show the player the coach has interest in them and to see how the player interacts with teammates and coaches. Good college coaches want to see the player in both environments.
My nephew plays for one of the young Pure Prep squads. Apparently they're getting sponsored by Under Armour later this year. Not sure if UA will be able to compete with Nike and Adidas but getting sponsored was pretty big for them.
Watched Foster this morning against the older group. His team got worked pretty bad and couldn't tell how much effort he was really giving. He's got shot blocking down and he's plenty athletic with long arms but he's got a long ways to go in every other facet (kinda like early Gabe Olenseni). Not surprising for a young big man.
Watched Foster this morning against the older group. His team got worked pretty bad and couldn't tell how much effort he was really giving. He's got shot blocking down and he's plenty athletic with long arms but he's got a long ways to go in every other facet (kinda like early Gabe Olenseni). Not surprising for a young big man.
Thanks for the info. What ages do you mean by older group? Foster just turned 15 on May 1st so he's close to a year younger than many of his classmates in HS.
I think he plays for the U16's and they played Prep's U17's. The 17's stud is Atticus Taylor out of Davenport. He had a couple rim rocker dunks.
Thanks, that can make a huge difference. Which I'm sure you accounted for in your evaluation. I like the Gabe comparison. Especially as it relates to athleticism. Foster has good command of his body, and excellent speed. Skills and toughness need to come next. But three years left of high school, plenty of time.
I have been involved with AAU basketball for a couple of years now and a lot of the info provided is accurate. Some coaches just let them run street ball, while some demand more fundamental, team oriented approach.
People complain about the officials but people spend a lot of money to travel and watch their kids play. They don't really want officials getting too involved. I only ask that they be consistent.
It's been a lot of fun for me. I got involved because of my son and ended up coaching.
I'm old school, fundamentals. Defense, effort and move without the ball.
People complain about the officials but people spend a lot of money to travel and watch their kids play. They don't really want officials getting too involved. I only ask that they be consistent.
It's been a lot of fun for me. I got involved because of my son and ended up coaching.
I'm old school, fundamentals. Defense, effort and move without the ball.
I'm a people watcher by nature and I get a lot of entertainment out of the parents and players involved in AAU basketball. 99% of them don't know what it takes to be a college level or professional level athlete. They have coaches that have already been at that level. They all want/expect that's where they or their child will end up, yet they won't do what's necessary to get there. In spite of all of these former college and even some pro level basketball players telling them exactly what they need to do.
My son was slow to embrace these things and it was a source of confrontation between us at times. He said he wanted to play college basketball, so I put him in front of coaches that can get him there. It takes hard work. It's not always fun.
No... you're not the next LeBron or the next Kobe.
Please stop trying to beat three defenders off the dribble.
I get that you were attempting a pass to a teammate and I really appreciate that but behind the back, in the paint with a collapsing defense will almost always lead to a turnover.
I can't have you on the floor if you don't play defense. You gave up 20 points, so I don't see how your 10 points helped out the team.
And on, and on and on.
My son was slow to embrace these things and it was a source of confrontation between us at times. He said he wanted to play college basketball, so I put him in front of coaches that can get him there. It takes hard work. It's not always fun.
No... you're not the next LeBron or the next Kobe.
Please stop trying to beat three defenders off the dribble.
I get that you were attempting a pass to a teammate and I really appreciate that but behind the back, in the paint with a collapsing defense will almost always lead to a turnover.
I can't have you on the floor if you don't play defense. You gave up 20 points, so I don't see how your 10 points helped out the team.
And on, and on and on.
Interesting and very untrue....had coaches at probably 90% of our games this year. Watching one of mine and players from other teams. When you are big time..you are big time. The literally thousands of colleges that need plays have a very limited budget. When a college coach has to pay hundreds of dollars to get a "packet" at an AAU tournament...it cuts down on the ability of the smaller schools getting looks. I have said it before....overall AAU is a mess...the exceptions are the elite teams with the elite players. We couldn't be luckier in Iowa to have the Barnstormers, Martin Bros, Pump n Run (Duez Henderson)...very lucky.
between NCAA, NAIA & NJCAA among others...yes well over a thousand. Academic money available in most.
not every kid that plays AAU is going to get a D1 offer..as an AAU coach you would know that..doesnt mean there are not other opportunities out there.
Thousands, yes. 347 in D1 last time I looked, maybe it was 351, let's round to 350. D2 has 300+. So were at + 650 and still have NAIA and Juco's....
Thousands. And yes many operate on budgets that struggle with things like paying money to see kids play.
2,029 schools sponsored varsity level Basketball teams during 2015. NCAA D1,2,3 ..NAIA among others.
the internet is a wonderful thing.
Coming from a high school point of view. For most families..college is expensive. Obviously not all high school or AAU players will receive a D1 scholarship. There is money out there for lower levels. High School coaches I know spend a great deal of time working toward getting their student athletes the best shot possible at some of those academic $... which includes talking to those that may need a kick in the butt when it comes to school work.
Tried saying there was a whole lot more to recruiting than could be covered in a paragraph.There is also the stockpiling of kids who MAY develop into D1 material at smaller schools. And I know that goes on where some name schools have buddies coaching at a lower level.
Then there is the Canarias Islands Travel Agency and Basketball Academy which I've tried to complain about on here but haven't yet seen anyone interested in what clearly is cheating except the rules haven't been written yet.
Or why so many Basketball Academies are springing up in Canada.
And, the NCAA Clearinghouse itself which take months to qualify a kid who speaks six different languages, but happened to go to high school part of the time in Africa. Have they not read about how rotten U.S. schools have become?!?!? Meanwhile the kid has to go to Juco where he finds out later he qualified for a four year scholarship.
There are many reasons we shouldn't downgrade the value coaches find in visiting high schools. Nor should that take away from the good things excellent programs like the Barnstormers bring. I'm just glad there are still good things about recruiting.
This is honestly one of the best threads on the site, in my opinion. Good read.
For what it's worth, I just coach jr high (boys and girls seasons) and have had plenty of kids that have played for the Barnstormers. They love the program and the coaching they get. I clearly see some good habits and fundamentals being taught. Other clubs, that I won't name, I do not feel the same about... neither do the kids.
For what it's worth, I just coach jr high (boys and girls seasons) and have had plenty of kids that have played for the Barnstormers. They love the program and the coaching they get. I clearly see some good habits and fundamentals being taught. Other clubs, that I won't name, I do not feel the same about... neither do the kids.
Like a lot of young bigs, Foster has a bunch of growing into his body to do, before he'll show much of that potencial. I don't know how he'd fare right now against some of the top players, his hype is based currently on what people think he'll be in three or four years.
Bigs at 15 are not finished products. Gabe was a real project when he first got here, but had the skills Foster possesses and he was able to contribute in those areas. Bigs who can run and have the timing to block shots at 15 aren't that plentiful.
Foster has 3 years to get used to his size and build strength. If he's a worker we should be estatic we've got a shot at him. He'll be a totally different player when he's a hs senior. If he's not showing significant progress, then he's not going to be a fit and it would be better both both he and the Hawks to move on.
I expect him to look good in a Hawk uni.
Foster has 3 years to get used to his size and build strength. If he's a worker we should be estatic we've got a shot at him. He'll be a totally different player when he's a hs senior. If he's not showing significant progress, then he's not going to be a fit and it would be better both both he and the Hawks to move on.
I expect him to look good in a Hawk uni.
