Bernie Sanders' $15 minimum wage

[herkyhawk00]

Is not a very well thought out idea. How can anyone who actually thinks about this idea of his agree that it is a good plan? You are going to pay unskilled and uneducated workers $30,000 a year while teachers, EMT's Firemen, police officers, and many other jobs start out at or below those levels?

What is to encourage kids to get a HS diploma if you can start earning $30,000 a year? What is the motivation to get yourself into $80,000 in debt of college and getting into jobs in education or others that start out at $28-30,000?

It will have such a vast effect on employment, costs of goods, education, etc, that it won't help anyone. Plus, it could potentially have a ripple effect where to improve the attractiveness of govt and state jobs that require degrees, but start out low, to raise their starting salaries significantly in order to make it more attractive. Thus, taxes will be raised drastically, also, in order to pay for it.

How does it impact places like Hy-Vee that do an excellent job of hiring employees with special needs? How does it helps students with special needs find work? Companies are going to be much more selective on who they hire. Why would you hire a person with special needs you are required to pay $15 an hour when you can hire someone much more efficient?

The whole plan isn't thought out very well or explained how he plans to offset the huge backlash that will take place as a result.

 

[QChawks]

There won't be anyone more $80k debt because he would all public colleges free.

So basically a degree would be meaningless.

 

[herkyhawk00]

There won't be anyone more $80k debt because he would all public colleges free.

So basically a degree would be meaningless.

The math to pay for his plan doesn't add up. Taxes would increase greatly to pay for his plan and we would continue to go further into debt. Makes absolutely zero sense. Plus, the plan is for "state" schools to be free. So, those schools would have to put a cap on their enrollment or increase the size of their staff tenfold. It will also cause many private schools to close due to lack of enrollment.

 

[BioHawk]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

 

[BubsFinn]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

Just because a person slugs a timeclck for 40 hours a week doesn't mean they provide $30,000 worth of value to their employer.
I've had employees that were little more than a warm body occupying space on the floor. The job they were hired to do required no skills and frankly, some were under qualified. They certainly didn't do $30,000 worth of work.

 

[TailgateTom]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

Give me a break. If you don't like your current position in life, do something about it. Educate yourself into a better position, like many others have. Minimal skills = minimal pay.

 

[22*43*51]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

Goud Gawd!!!

This is what a stereotypical Liberal education will get you.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Sorry but the American taxpayer should not have to subsidize businesses that can't pay a living wage. Just more corporate welfare that everyone wants to ignore.

 

[timinatoria]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

Why would I pay someone to mow my yard for $15/hour if someone else will do just as good of a job for $8/hour?

 

[BioHawk]

Why would I pay someone to mow my yard for $15/hour if someone else will do just as good of a job for $8/hour?

Exactly. Which is why we need a minimum wage. $8 doesn't cut it.

Yes, I realize there globally that doesn't work which is why those laws need to change as well.

 

[herkyhawk00]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

In the end, you will be the one paying for teacher salary increases and teacher aides, as well as salary increases for EMT's and the check out counter person and every other job.

You will also see people avoid working further to stay on welfare as well as upping the number of children they have to continue getting govt assistance. What should be addressed is one's will and desire. Unfortunately, it enables helplessness.

 

[ANYCHawk]

In the end, you will be the one paying for teacher salary increases and teacher aides, as well as salary increases for EMT's

 

[BioHawk]

Give me a break. If you don't like your current position in life, do something about it. Educate yourself into a better position, like many others have. Minimal skills = minimal pay.

Minimal pay should still afford food, a house, and transportation. Or, maybe I've mistaken your position and you think we should go all in on welfare?

Why should I pay to subsidize some CEO's pay? I'd prefer my tax money go to benefiting everyone in the country, not just the super rich.

 

[BioHawk]

In the end, you will be the one paying for teacher salary increases and teacher aides, as well as salary increases for EMT's and the check out counter person and every other job.

You will also see people avoid working further to stay on welfare as well as upping the number of children they have to continue getting govt assistance. What should be addressed is one's will and desire. Unfortunately, it enables helplessness.

First, good. Teachers need to be paid more. Second, I'm not following how paying people a living wage will keep people on welfare. Hell, if we went to a real living wage for all jobs I'd probably support getting rid of welfare entirely, so long as there were assurances the "living wage" will keep pace with the cost of living.

 

[herkyhawk00]

Why would I pay someone to mow my yard for $15/hour if someone else will do just as good of a job for $8/hour?

This, too, is a good point as it will greatly increase the cost of labor and services provided by Lawn Maintenance and Landscape Companies.

 

[BioHawk]

This, too, is a good point as it will greatly increase the cost of labor and services provided by Lawn Maintenance and Landscape Companies.

So?

 

[herkyhawk00]

First, good. Teachers need to be paid more. Second, I'm not following how paying people a living wage will keep people on welfare. Hell, if we went to a real living wage for all jobs I'd probably support getting rid of welfare entirely, so long as there were assurances the "living wage" will keep pace with the cost of living.

First, businesses will cut their staffs greatly increasing the unemployment rate. You will se fast food restaurants getting rid of cashiers for taking money and orders. People will have more difficulties finding work and employers are going to be much more careful about who they are hiring for $15 an hr as opposed to $8.

Plus, you will always have people who prefer welfare over working. That is why we have generations of families who have never gotten off it. There will always be those who abuse the system and $15 an hour will not solve those problems. It could very easily increase the problems. You have already seen it in states that have raised the minimum wage where people prefer to work part time to continue getting welfare.

 

[hansenhawk]

He lives in socialist fairly land, and all the people supporting him are clueless.

 

[herkyhawk00]

So?

Your liberalism is the problem, I guess, as you can't see how all of these issues impact businesses and our society.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

I'm staying away from this minimum wage bullshit. It's ridiculous. Not that we shouldn't have a minimum wage or standards for living. But putting that on employers overnight is hazardous. Put it on the taxpayers (all of you), or STFU.

 

[ferentzin04]

It's the small, local organizations that would really suffer. The locally owned restaurants, non profits like museums, etc. They can't afford to pay everyone $15 an hour, and it's not because their CEO's are making 7 figures.

 

[BioHawk]

Your liberalism is the problem, I guess, as you can't see how all of these issues impact businesses and our society.

I've been carrying around businesses on my back for 30 years now. Sorry I don't give a shit about them going from $13 billion in profits a year to $10 billion in profits a year.

 

[TailgateTom]

Minimal pay should still afford food, a house, and transportation. Or, maybe I've mistaken your position and you think we should go all in on welfare?

Why should I pay to subsidize some CEO's pay? I'd prefer my tax money go to benefiting everyone in the country, not just the super rich.

I guess I don't understand why you can't afford those things on roughly $1,000/month. Hell I did it while going to college. I mean, god forbid you have to pick up a 2nd job to make ends meet.

 

[BioHawk]

It's the small, local organizations that would really suffer. The locally owned restaurants, non profits like museums, etc. They can't afford to pay everyone $15 an hour, and it's not because their CEO's are making 7 figures.

Yes, they would need to increase their prices a bit. If it cost me an extra 5-10 bucks for a meal, I'm ok with that.

 

[BioHawk]

I guess I don't understand why you can't afford those things on roughly $1,000/month. I mean, god forbid you have to pick up a 2nd job to make ends meet.

Because I've seen what a parent having to work two or three jobs does to the family and to the kids. I understand that asking anyone to work 80+ hours a week on top of trying to raise kids does to the family and their home life. $1,000 a month might be enough in Iowa for a single person, but in most places that doesn't even scratch the surface of being able to pay for housing and feeding a family.

 

[BioHawk]

I'm staying away from this minimum wage bullshit. It's ridiculous. Not that we shouldn't have a minimum wage or standards for living. But putting that on employers overnight is hazardous. Put it on the taxpayers (all of you), or STFU.

It already is on the tax payers. We're trying to put it back on the businesses.

 

[ferentzin04]

Yes, they would need to increase their prices a bit. If it cost me an extra 5-10 bucks for a meal, I'm ok with that.

You might be ok with that, but most people won't be and those businesses will suffer greatly, and I think you know that.

 

[BioHawk]

First, businesses will cut their staffs greatly increasing the unemployment rate. You will se fast food restaurants getting rid of cashiers for taking money and orders. People will have more difficulties finding work and employers are going to be much more careful about who they are hiring for $15 an hr as opposed to $8.

Plus, you will always have people who prefer welfare over working. That is why we have generations of families who have never gotten off it. There will always be those who abuse the system and $15 an hour will not solve those problems. It could very easily increase the problems. You have already seen it in states that have raised the minimum wage where people prefer to work part time to continue getting welfare.

This is the one real argument that I think has a lot of value because this is something that would happen. I'm not sure how this is any different than what is happening anyway. With or without 15 dollars an hour, it won't be long before automated cashiers happens anyway. In the name of profits. Hell, they are already in place in a lot of places. $8/hour is still greater than $0/hour. At least the people who are working will be making a decent wage.

While I disagree that most people on welfare just prefer to live that way, I am all for reworking the welfare laws in exchange of guaranteeing a living wage for people with a job.

 

[BioHawk]

You might be ok with that, but most people won't be and those businesses will suffer greatly, and I think you know that.

Maybe in the short term. Not in the long term.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

I've been carrying around businesses on my back for 30 years now. Sorry I don't give a shit about them going from $13 billion in profits a year to $10 billion in profits a year.

You haven't carried around shit, government employee. There are already people making $15 an hour who are paid that much because of their skills in the labor market. Doubling the minimum wage overnight is stupid. Raising it periodically makes sense.

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

It already is on the tax payers. We're trying to put it back on the businesses.

It should be on the tax payers. (Skin in the game). I mean this. We agree to pay for it or we don't.

 

[timinatoria]

Exactly. Which is why we need a minimum wage. $8 doesn't cut it.

Yes, I realize there globally that doesn't work which is why those laws need to change as well.

Well if you're going to make me pay $15/hr instead of $8/hr, I'll just do it myself.

Problem solved. One less minimum wage job.

 

[BioHawk]

You haven't carried around shit, government employee. There are already people making $15 an hour who are paid that much because of their skills in the labor market. Doubling the minimum wage overnight is stupid. Raising it periodically makes sense.

I pay taxes and seeing how much government money businesses have cost us in one form or another, I most certainly have carried them around. Not all of it is bad, mind you, but they've gotten far more help from me than they need.

Perhaps if we had been periodically raising the minimum wage since the 1990's then it wouldn't need this huge increase to bring it back in line.

 

[BioHawk]

Well if you're going to make me pay $15/hr instead of $8/hr, I'll just do it myself.

Problem solved. One less minimum wage job.

And that will happen. Until people remember why they paid someone $8/hr for these things.

 

[naturalmwa]

You haven't carried around shit, government employee. There are already people making $15 an hour who are paid that much because of their skills in the labor market. Doubling the minimum wage overnight is stupid. Raising it periodically makes sense.

Don't the plans under consideration raise it over time? All that I've seen described do it in stages over a number of years. Some then tie it to an inflation index, but Ds hate that.

 

[BioHawk]

It should be on the tax payers. (Skin in the game). I mean this. We agree to pay for it or we don't.

Wait a minute. So are you saying you support welfare so businesses can keep wages artificially low?

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

I pay taxes and seeing how much government money businesses have cost us in one form or another, I most certainly have carried them around. Not all of it is bad, mind you, but they've gotten far more help from me than they need.

Perhaps if we had been periodically raising the minimum wage since the 1990's then it wouldn't need this huge increase to bring it back in line.

Over night? I hope it's easy for you to understand why few have sympathy for teachers when their most important performance metric is not boinking children.

 

[timinatoria]

Yes, they would need to increase their prices a bit. If it cost me an extra 5-10 bucks for a meal, I'm ok with that.

Do you make $15 an hour? Because when meals go up an extra 5-10 bucks....and EVERYTHING ELSE goes up in price as well, the $15 an hour still won't be enough for a family of 4. Then what? Let me guess.....let's raise the minimum was to $25 an hour!

 

[uniFIGHTuniFIGHT]

Wait a minute. So are you saying you support welfare so businesses can keep wages artificially low?

Not exactly. Support welfare to prevent wages from being so drastically subjected to politics. The businesses which can operate in those conditions stick around. I'd much prefer a large increase in spending on social welfare than an mandatory doubling of the minimum wage. Paid for by the taxpayer. Because they agreed to it. Which is what I'm in favor of, BTW.

 

[BioHawk]

Do you make $15 an hour? Because when meals go up an extra 5-10 bucks....and EVERYTHING ELSE goes up in price as well, the $15 an hour still won't be enough for a family of 4. Then what? Let me guess.....let's raise the minimum was to $25 an hour!

No clue what I make per hour. I'm betting it's far less than $15 though and I'll still manage just fine. Of course, I manage my money well enough to where I don't really need to worry too much about that. I can't help people that overspend their means. All I'm asking for is that they can afford minimal shelter, clothing, food, and transportation. I'm not asking that everyone should be able to afford the 10k home theater.