Bernie Sanders' $15 minimum wage

[That tractor guy]

I'm in the living wage camp which I would define as whatever amount it takes to remove a person from poverty if they work 40 hours a week. I think that's currently closer to $10. I sort of have a soft spot for that MIT regional wage idea, but I can think of some rather obvious drawbacks for business owners. My bottom line is I don't want to pay for people who are working. I also don't want to eliminate the safety net. So I want work to pay more than welfare.

I'm not in the 'living wage camp' but I sure as hell don't work 40 hours a week...no successful person I know does.

I sell equipment for a living. I also go back to Iowa every spring and fall and use my 'vacation' (I'm always tethered to a cell phone) to farm with my brother. I have another side business and rental property.

I can tell you as I interact with business owners daily...and finding people that want to work isn't easy. Too many safety nets are in place and most are not worried about being fired.

 

[22*43*51]

 

[22*43*51]

 

[Pepperman]

How is randomly picking numbers from some arbitrary metric you created proving anything? Why $10 billion in net profit? You even said yourself that you can't get all the data necessary to even begin to make any logical conclusions. You are making a strawman here just to suit your needs. That or you explained your point so poorly that you are the last person to be declaring what is idiocy.

I quoted your post, dumbass. Try reading slower.

 

[BioHawk]

I quoted your post, dumbass. Try reading slower.

Didn't realize you'd take the guess I made as real data. But I do need to read slower.

Let me put it another way using actual data. Right now, 62 people in the world have more money than 3.5 billion. That's people. So sorry I don't feel bad for them having to pay their employees more or the businesses they invest in having to pay their employees more.

I realize those are international numbers but you'd get the same type of numbers if you just narrowed it down to Americans.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'm not in the 'living wage camp' but I sure as hell don't work 40 hours a week...no successful person I know does.

I sell equipment for a living. I also go back to Iowa every spring and fall and use my 'vacation' (I'm always tethered to a cell phone) to farm with my brother. I have another side business and rental property.

I can tell you as I interact with business owners daily...and finding people that want to work isn't easy. Too many safety nets are in place and most are not worried about being fired.

The conversation was never about successful people. We are talking about the working poor.

 

[That tractor guy]

The conversation was never about successful people. We are talking about the working poor.

I know a lot of 'not successful' people as well...and they work more than 40 hours a week. Other than Gov employees I'm not aware of many 40 hour workers.

 

[herkyhawk00]

"Creating wealth" for yourself by making everyone else's life miserable and harming the well being of the United States is not something we should be celebrating. "Greed is good" is not a winning policy or is it a moral policy we should be following.

Please explain to me how someone who has made a good living owning a business, climbing the corporate ladder, or is in sales that allow for a solid income is making others lives miserable? How? If I make $350,000 (I don't) a year and have created a very good nest egg for my family, how am I making others lives miserable? How am I harming the United States? Seriously? You have a distorted view of what drains an economy and what uses up one's resources.

 

[naturalmwa]

I know a lot of 'not successful' people as well...and they work more than 40 hours a week. Other than Gov employees I'm not aware of many 40 hour workers.

I'm not sure what your point is, but I'm glad you have a broad social circle.

 

[BioHawk]

Please explain to me how someone who has made a good living owning a business, climbing the corporate ladder, or is in sales that allow for a solid income is making others lives miserable? How? If I make $350,000 (I don't) a year and have created a very good nest egg for my family, how am I making others lives miserable? How am I harming the United States? Seriously? You have a distorted view of what drains an economy and what uses up one's resources.

I'm not talking about you.

But, if you voted for Bush Jr., a Tea Party Congressional candidate, and are thinking about voting for Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, that's how.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'm not talking about you.

But, if you voted for Bush Jr., a Tea Party Congressional candidate, and are thinking about voting for Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, that's how.

You don't like the Trump trade policy?

 

[BioHawk]

You don't like the Trump trade policy?

I don't like anything else about him. He's a buffoon and plays up every negative American stereotype ever. He's idiocracy given form.

 

[BigDelHawk]

There won't be anyone more $80k debt because he would all public colleges free.

So basically a degree would be meaningless.

Lots of Sociology, Psych, Womens Studies and other worthless degrees would ensue. Europe has had lots of problems with professional students.

 

[thewop]

All your argument shows is how underpaid teachers, EMT's, and anyone else currently making 30k a year are. Anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't have to need government aid for food and shelter. For ANY job. A job is a job. If $15 dollars an hour is what it takes to make that happen, then $15 an hour is what they should get paid. I guess everyone else needs to pay a bit more for their stuff and CEO's don't need their 7 figure bonus on top of their 8 figure salary.

I realize you wrote this in an attempt to throw it back in the con's faces, but step back and think logically about this. For the most part, the people responsible for paying $15/hr wouldn't be CEO's with 7 figure bonuses and 8 figure salaries, but rather the guy down the street from you who owns a local store, a car wash, a gas station, a plumbing business, etc. Even if we take all the "extra" money from the CEO's, it wouldn't come near paying for all this. Rising prices impact everyone, from the poorest of the poor all the way up. Higher wages mean higher costs, and higher costs drive higher wages, it's a cycle we won't break artificially, and that's why the market must be given freedom to work, even if a small % of people do far better in life financially than the rest of us.

We can't simply hear a message of "let's pay everyone more money" and think "yeah, let's do it!" There are very real consequences attached to that which impact the average person a lot more than it impacts the 'loathed' CEO. We have to avoid the temptation to disguise our jealousy as 'concern for the common man' and hope a politician has all the answers.

 

[That tractor guy]

People are also forgetting how much MORE uncompetitive this would make us in the world market.

CA raised property taxes on inventory...and as a result hundreds of millions invested in JIT inventory management for CA stores.

$15 an hour will destroy what remains of US mfg as companies go to Mexico or China for more and more.

 

[That tractor guy]

Also, "FREE COLLEGE" isn't available for everyone in EU. I have 3 younger cousins that are German. 2 went to college here because Germany didn't deem them worthy of it. One is now a professor in VA.

 

[Pepperman]

A lot of democrats like to make "warm fuzzy" statements that can't possibly occur. There are plenty of people dumb enough to vote for them that believe it could happen.

There are no shortcuts. Hard work is the only way.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I realize many business owners like the idea that their customers will have more cash to spend. I think that was in one of the links. There are studies on what happened in the past when we raised the wage. They are mixed, but lean towards positive economic outcomes far more than not. If you feel differently, that burden is on you because I've provided empirical data that shows its a fine economic decision before we even get into all the other rational reasons for wanting to pay people via work rather then handouts.

I find your desire to wait until after the election and after some bill is passed to form an opinion on this topic odd. But if you hold to that, then you are free to bow out of the conversation. Don't expect me to follow you to the sidelines however.

That is not what I meant to imply...that I would wait, or that you should too, to form an opinion until after an election, etc. My intended point is that there is no data at this time that will conclusively prove, or disprove, that a radical increase in the minimum wage will help anyone. Because nothing like this happened before AND it hasn't happened yet...so, there is no data, empirical or otherwise, that any of us can refer to support our position. It is all theoretical and hypothetical at this time.

I know of no time in the past where the minimum wage was raised by anywhere from $4/hr to $7.75/hr in one jump, or in a series of coordinated raises within a short period of time. My point was...none of us can say for sure what the real impact would be if we jumped the MW from $7.25 to $15, while we can all offer our opinions as to what would happen, it really can't be known until that time comes, if it does.

My opinion is that a change like this would NOT have the desired outcome of lifting people out of poverty. Whatever income increases that would be realized would soon be swallowed by raised prices and reduced opportunities. But that is my opinion, I can't know that for fact at this time.

 

[That tractor guy]

A lot of democrats like to make "warm fuzzy" statements that can't possibly occur. There are plenty of people dumb enough to vote for them that believe it could happen.

There are no shortcuts. Hard work is the only way.

Way too often they're are people who blindly trust someone because their position in life gives them credibility they don't have or deserve. "Surely Bernie knows it's possible...he's a SENATOR! You can't be a Senator and not know that..."

 

[naturalmwa]

That is not what I meant to imply...that I would wait, or that you should too, to form an opinion until after an election, etc. My intended point is that there is no data at this time that will conclusively prove, or disprove, that a radical increase in the minimum wage will help anyone. Because nothing like this happened before AND it hasn't happened yet...so, there is no data, empirical or otherwise, that any of us can refer to support our position. It is all theoretical and hypothetical at this time.

I know of no time in the past where the minimum wage was raised by anywhere from $4/hr to $7.75/hr in one jump, or in a series of coordinated raises within a short period of time. My point was...none of us can say for sure what the real impact would be if we jumped the MW from $7.25 to $15, while we can all offer our opinions as to what would happen, it really can't be known until that time comes, if it does.

My opinion is that a change like this would NOT have the desired outcome of lifting people out of poverty. Whatever income increases that would be realized would soon be swallowed by raised prices and reduced opportunities. But that is my opinion, I can't know that for fact at this time.

I think this is a bit of a red herring. The plans that raise the minimum wage do it in steps over a number of years. Some of the plans also let employers count benifits like ACA contributions towards that wage. The plans are not as outlandish as you imply. In that way it is just like past raises and past performance could be used to guide present action.

 

[BioHawk]

I realize you wrote this in an attempt to throw it back in the con's faces, but step back and think logically about this. For the most part, the people responsible for paying $15/hr wouldn't be CEO's with 7 figure bonuses and 8 figure salaries, but rather the guy down the street from you who owns a local store, a car wash, a gas station, a plumbing business, etc. Even if we take all the "extra" money from the CEO's, it wouldn't come near paying for all this. Rising prices impact everyone, from the poorest of the poor all the way up. Higher wages mean higher costs, and higher costs drive higher wages, it's a cycle we won't break artificially, and that's why the market must be given freedom to work, even if a small % of people do far better in life financially than the rest of us.

We can't simply hear a message of "let's pay everyone more money" and think "yeah, let's do it!" There are very real consequences attached to that which impact the average person a lot more than it impacts the 'loathed' CEO. We have to avoid the temptation to disguise our jealousy as 'concern for the common man' and hope a politician has all the answers.

whine, whine, whine, complain, complain, complain. All we ever hear from the right is why things can't be done. We never hear anything about actually doing something. People who work 40 hours a week should not be living in poverty. Period. These people are not lazy. They are proving they are willing to work for their money. It is a problem if someone works 40 hours a week and can't even meet the most basic of needs.

Is there a single solution? Of course not, however raising wages is certainly a significant part of that. If the right has any realistic solutions beyond blaming the victim, I'd love to hear them. However, saying "go get more skills" just is not reasonable and not possible for a lot of people. For many people, washing cars or being a cashier is the most they are capable of doing (since there are so few low-skill manufacturing jobs anymore). Just because those jobs left doesn't mean the people who did them did as well. You can continue to live in this fantasy that everyone is capable of getting a bachelors or becoming an electrician but the reality is that's just not the case. Anyone that is willing to work for a living should not be living in poverty.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I think this is a bit of a red herring. The plans that raise the minimum wage do it in steps over a number of years. Some of the plans also let employers count benifits like ACA contributions towards that wage. The plans are not as outlandish as you imply. In that way it is just like past raises and past performance could be used to guide present action.

Nat - I think you have a point, sort of. It is true that there are multiple plans bandied about that advocate for a phased in raising of the minimum wage. But there are also people that want to see it raised to $15 immediately. (I was in attendance at a local public meeting a few months ago where a proponent of this much more aggressive stance spoke about his groups goals and intentions along those lines.)

Realistically, I mostly agree with you that if this did happen that it would be phased in over a period of 2-4 years. Nevertheless, let's assume a 4 year phase-in period...that is still a really big jump over a still fairly short period of time IMO. And it underscores one of the points that I have made in previous posts...that is, we really cannot know the impact until the change is real, if it does occur.

 

[That tractor guy]

I think you're missing the 40hr issue...in the real world no one works 40 hours.

I understand you're a Gov employee...but that's not how the rest of us live.

I have a hard time subsidizing people working less than I do. I'd LOVE to be home more, have real vacations, and do fun stuff. But that's not a reality for my wife or I if we want to pay our bills and provide for our family.

I'm making good money...BUT there were many years that I wasn't. I worked more than then I do now. That's LIFE. My folks worked 2-3 extra jobs each to make things go when they started out farming. That's part of the deal.

Minimum effort, minimum skill jobs should not be 'living wage' jobs @ 40 hours. Sorry. I'd love them to be...but to do that you'll destroy our economy and cause inflation that we'll all suffer.

 

[Run&Blade]

Keep the current path and at some point somebody is going to run for office on this idea::

Elect me and I will take half the money all billionaires have and equally distribute it to all Americas.

Under the premise they can't spend it all, so what would it hurt.

 

[naturalmwa]

Nat - I think you have a point, sort of. It is true that there are multiple plans bandied about that advocate for a phased in raising of the minimum wage. But there are also people that want to see it raised to $15 immediately. (I was in attendance at a local public meeting a few months ago where a proponent of this much more aggressive stance spoke about his groups goals and intentions along those lines.)

Realistically, I mostly agree with you that if this did happen that it would be phased in over a period of 2-4 years. Nevertheless, let's assume a 4 year phase-in period...that is still a really big jump over a still fairly short period of time IMO. And it underscores one of the points that I have made in previous posts...that is, we really cannot know the impact until the change is real, if it does occur.

I appreciate what you're saying. But there are still empirical models to base our actions on. Several US cities are raising the minimum wage now, some up to $15. Some counting those benefits. We don't need to stand in the dark and guess about the impact and how to best implement this policy if at all. We could do the research to arrive at a sound answer. This topic need not be paralyzed by mystery.

 

[Pepperman]

People who work 40 hours a week should not be living in poverty. Period. These people are not lazy. They are proving they are willing to work for their money. It is a problem if someone works 40 hours a week and can't even meet the most basic of needs.

How many people in this country fit the description above? I'd guess not many. Most people who are willing to work and keep themselves clean / sober / motivated would find a job that pays them more.

So anyway, how many people fit that definition?

 

[TailgateTom]

Really??

I doubt Northern Indiana is a lot different from Iowa but you do realize that a 1 bedroom apartment is usually $500 per month min. Then you have food, utilities, healthcare, car insurance and gas just to have car to take you to work and back.

You can argue against increasing the min wage if you want, even to me it seems like a bit of a double edged sword but living on your own on min wage alone sounds dang near impossible without some government assistance.

THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! It's not really a difficult concept. Why should the majority pay the consequences for the poor life choices of the minority? Good grief, I was able to make things work when I was 18-24 going to school full time (including receiving my master's) and working two crap jobs along the way. I had to sit down and figure out what was a necessity and what was a luxury. Luxury items I did with out. Healthcare should be a non-issue, you don't NEED a car. Hell a student (I believe) it's like $20 a month for a pass.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! It's not really a difficult concept. Why should the majority pay the consequences for the poor life choices of the minority? Good grief, I was able to make things work when I was 18-24 going to school full time (including receiving my master's) and working two crap jobs along the way. I had to sit down and figure out what was a necessity and what was a luxury. Luxury items I did with out. Healthcare should be a non-issue, you don't NEED a car. Hell a student (I believe) it's like $20 a month for a pass.

Someone said that one could live on min wage. I disagree.

Now as to doing something about it and one's capacity to do that is an entirely different conversation.

You do realize that a lot of the people stuck in these positions are there because as teenagers when most of us where in high school and the money we did make from work we either saved or blew on something for fun these people where being asked to support their parents or siblings and they where caught in a situation where they where always needed to support someone other then themselves.

Also the fact that the economy on it's own bringing everyone to a living wage is impossible and we should do what we can to promote people receiving a living wage.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I appreciate what you're saying. But there are still empirical models to base our actions on. Several US cities are raising the minimum wage now, some up to $15. Some counting those benefits. We don't need to stand in the dark and guess about the impact and how to best implement this policy if at all. We could do the research to arrive at a sound answer. This topic need not be paralyzed by mystery.

Natural - to the best of my knowledge...no state or municipality is currently enforcing a $15/hr minimum wage...yet. While a handful of places have put the wheels in motion to get there over the next 2-6 years or so, even the areas that have passed this are implementing it in phases.

Maybe we are arguing semantics...but yes, we are still in the dark as to the true impact of a $15/hr minimum wage as there is nowhere to look to see actual results...at this time in early 2016. Then, once the higher wage kicks in, it may well take awhile after that to gauge the real impact. So we are roughly 2-3 years away from "knowing" anything for sure IMO.

Can you identify a place that is currently mandating a $15/hr minimum wage?

 

[naturalmwa]

Natural - to the best of my knowledge...no state or municipality is currently enforcing a $15/hr minimum wage...yet. While a handful of places have put the wheels in motion to get there over the next 2-6 years or so, even the areas that have passed this are implementing it in phases.

Maybe we are arguing semantics...but yes, we are still in the dark as to the true impact of a $15/hr minimum wage as there is nowhere to look to see actual results...at this time in early 2016. Then, once the higher wage kicks in, it may well take awhile after that to gauge the real impact. So we are roughly 2-3 years away from "knowing" anything for sure IMO.

Can you identify a place that is currently mandating a $15/hr minimum wage?

I realize the plan is to move in stages, I said as much when I criticized all the teeth gnashing about jumping from $7.25 to $15 over night. I'm simply arguing the science of economics is a bit more advanced than you want to give credit. We have been at the minimum wage game for nearly a century. Data from other nations can be used. I suspect a person versed in the field could reasonably deduce the impact of a future raise in the minimum wage based on past results. I'm not an economist and not prepared to carry their torch, but I feel my position is reasonable absent evidence to the contrary.

 

[Smalls4IA]

Someone said that one could live on min wage. I disagree.

Now as to doing something about it and one's capacity to do that is an entirely different conversation.

You do realize that a lot of the people stuck in these positions are there because as teenagers when most of us where in high school and the money we did make from work we either saved or blew on something for fun these people where being asked to support their parents or siblings and they where caught in a situation where they where always needed to support someone other then themselves.

Also the fact that the economy on it's own bringing everyone to a living wage is impossible and we should do what we can to promote people receiving a living wage.

So who's to blame? You live and you learn and you make sure you don't do the same things to your kids. Not everybody is born with a silver spoon and it often takes generations to drastically improve social status. My family had nothing when I was a kid. Didn't have any flooring in our house until my mom hit a deer with our truck and they chose not to fix the truck.

My parents are in their mid sixties and still busting their backs. But they made sure we knew how tough it was and that we were focused on getting a good education. All of my siblings had jobs in High School including myself. I worked 20 plus hours a week and played three sports. We all worked in college and we all got degrees. All of us started our own businesses and I still run a construction crew on top of teaching and coaching. I busted my ass and aged my body many years past my age in my 20's to make life better for my kids just like my parents did. My parents have very little to this day, but my life is better for what they did and lives of my kids will be better for what I've done. People are too damn selfish and only care about what's going on in their lives at that moment. You either live for the future or live suffering the consequences.

 

[Pepperman]

How many people in this country fit the description above? I'd guess not many. Most people who are willing to work and keep themselves clean / sober / motivated would find a job that pays them more.

So anyway, how many people fit that definition?

Bumping for Bio Hawk's answer. Guessing I'll get an emotional tirade about how he CARES about people.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

So who's to blame? You live and you learn and you make sure you don't do the same things to your kids. Not everybody is born with a silver spoon and it often takes generations to drastically improve social status. My family had nothing when I was a kid. Didn't have any flooring in our house until my mom hit a deer with our truck and they chose not to fix the truck.

My parents are in their mid sixties and still busting their backs. But they made sure we knew how tough it was and that we were focused on getting a good education. All of my siblings had jobs in High School including myself. I worked 20 plus hours a week and played three sports. We all worked in college and we all got degrees. All of us started our own businesses and I still run a construction crew on top of teaching and coaching. I busted my ass and aged my body many years past my age in my 20's to make life better for my kids just like my parents did. My parents have very little to this day, but my life is better for what they did and lives of my kids will be better for what I've done. People are too damn selfish and only care about what's going on in their lives at that moment. You either live for the future or live suffering the consequences.

So we should just continue to accept poverty and low wages in our midst because of empty thoughts about how dealing with all of that makes us tougher and better people?

All of these statements do not answer why we should continue to tolerate poverty and low wages. Nor why we should continue to tolerate corporations that pull in large profits but because of their low wages leave the care of their employee's basic needs to the tax payer.

 

[Smalls4IA]

So we should just continue to accept poverty and low wages in our midst because of empty thoughts about how dealing with all of that makes us tougher and better people?

All of these statements do not answer why we should continue to tolerate poverty and low wages. Nor why we should continue to tolerate corporations that pull in large profits but because of their low wages leave the care of their employee's basic needs to the tax payer.

Tolerate? You get what you put in. Working a mindless job for 40 hours a week shouldn't net you a living wage. I don't have sympathy for the majority of people that live in poverty. You don't like it, do something about it to make sure your family doesn't have the same problems. That might mean working 2 mindless jobs. I put over 90 hours a week while working 7 days a week to get what I wanted. Every part of that sucked. Some jobs should not pay well. People should strive to get better jobs, with better pay, and better benefits. That would solve the problem. Why reward mediocrity? Why have sympathy for people who don't want to make themselves better?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Tolerate? You get what you put in. Working a mindless job for 40 hours a week shouldn't net you a living wage. I don't have sympathy for the majority of people that live in poverty. You don't like it, do something about it to make sure your family doesn't have the same problems. That might mean working 2 mindless jobs. I put over 90 hours a week while working 7 days a week to get what I wanted. Every part of that sucked. Some jobs should not pay well. People should strive to get better jobs, with better pay, and better benefits. That would solve the problem. Why reward mediocrity? Why have sympathy for people who don't want to make themselves better?

Why reward mediocrity? We're talking about rewarding mediocrity with the ability to feed yourself here, not with a freaking Lexus.

If you consider secure access to food, warm shelter and healthcare to be a reward then you are essentially saying that survival itself is a reward for going above and beyond. If economic natural selection is something you believe in then we have nothing left to discuss.

 

[Smalls4IA]

Why reward mediocrity? We're talking about rewarding mediocrity with the ability to feed yourself here, not with a freaking Lexus.

If you consider secure access to food, warm shelter and healthcare to be a reward then you are essentially saying that survival itself is a reward for going above and beyond. If economic natural selection is something you believe in then we have nothing left to discuss.

If you're trying to feed your family

Why reward mediocrity? We're talking about rewarding mediocrity with the ability to feed yourself here, not with a freaking Lexus.

If you consider secure access to food, warm shelter and healthcare to be a reward then you are essentially saying that survival itself is a reward for going above and beyond. If economic natural selection is something you believe in then we have nothing left to discuss.

If you rely on a job at McDonalds alone to feed yourself, then you're getting what you deserve. There is nothing stoping that person from getting a second job and working their way up. What the heck is wrong with working for something? It's not going above and beyond. It's doing what's necessary to achieve a better life.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

If you're trying to feed your family


If you rely on a job at McDonalds alone to feed yourself, then you're getting what you deserve. There is nothing stoping that person from getting a second job and working their way up. What the heck is wrong with working for something? It's not going above and beyond. It's doing what's necessary to achieve a better life.

Nothing wrong with working your way up or going above and beyond. There is something wrong with the fact that a person can work 40 hours, no matter if you call it mediocrity or not and not be able to buy food, utilities, shelter, and have healthcare. Mediocrity should at least involve survival. We arn't talking about getting everyone a Lexus.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Nothing wrong with working your way up or going above and beyond. There is something wrong with the fact that a person can work 40 hours, no matter if you call it mediocrity or not and not be able to buy food, utilities, shelter, and have healthcare. Mediocrity should at least involve survival. We arn't talking about getting everyone a Lexus.

My parents, both sets of my grandparents, my aunt's and uncle's that I know about, my wife's parents and countless numbers of other adults that I knew growing up worked a second job, and/or supplemented their base income with some sort of an alternative job or craft. Shoot, a couple of them even worked three jobs...at least some of the time.

Where and when did it become the baseline that a person must be able to provide for all of their needs with one 40 hour per week job? Who's selling you that line?

People used to think in terms of covering their own responsibilities and doing "whatever it takes" and aligned their actions and work habits accordingly. Now, many think they are owed something...and align their opinions accordingly.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

The good an natural progression of things is to start small (with nothing) and work your way up to bigger and better things through hard work. In this way, you learn the value of a dollar, build character, and learn the essential skills of how to survive. You don't start at $15/hr and bypass all that. You don't get rewarded unless you put in the hard work, and you encourage hard work (for those who want to advance themselves and their family) with the current structure.

 

[dbq hawk 32]

A huge jump in minimum wage with subsequent increases linked to inflation will just create a positive feedback loop.

Enjoy funding Social Security for seniors who paid taxes on $5 an hour when cola are sky high.