Betsy Devos Confirmed via Pence Vote
- Thread starter IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life
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For a good number of public schools, just about any change would be an improvement.
Yes, but you - at some level - are just improving the kids we really aren't "worried about" to begin with, at least cost-wise.
Placing the future costs of society in a building together, or simply out on the streets gets expensive for the government in the long run, both financially and societally.
I guess I can only speak anecdotally, and most schools I'm aware of offer programs such as you describe - like building houses and learning trades.
Or....a change like this is exactly what is needed. You really just contradicted yourself.
It's like you think the kids I am talking about are going to be productive members of society...because they aren't. Basically, these kids grow up to cost the taxpayers anyway. They choose not to be educated...and do their best to mess up the learning environment for others.
The fact that you think that show how much our public schools have failed you.
I see, so you think of it as a sunk cost. So redirect their costs towards policing and healthcare? What about just the savings while they are in school - which under your plan they may not be?
My opinion is that this is largely determined far before the time you are likely discussing. Pump more resources in to children at the youngest child-learning ages, 3-8, focusing on structure and activities. i.e. remove them from their homes as much as possible.
I'm of the opinion most schools do a lot better job than is commonly credited here.
Teachers and schools are easy targets.
I'm pretty sure that point was conceded long ago.
Wrong.....again.
Only attended public school til the 7th grade. 8-12 was private. Which launched me into eight years of post-high school education, including advanced professional degrees.
But nice try.
Disclaimer. ..I am not in the education field, but I do have multiple friends and family members that are and I routinely hear from them. To a person, their biggest concern is the 2-5 students per class that are so disruptive that a huge percentage of their time is forced to go to simply keeping them in check...to the learning detriment of the other 15-20 kids.
Among other ideas...return corporal punishment to the principal. Set some rules where there has to be another adult present, etc. But the troublemakers know no fear and their parents aren't handling the situation and every other youster is being drug down with them.
Old Wrestling fan is right; I began teaching as a second career 15 years ago, and that is
the biggest, over-arching problem today. And for the record, I"m not in any teachers union, and I agree pretty much what most here are saying. Public education has become a disgrace of inflated numbers and looking pretty for the parents. Ms. Devos, I wish you Godspeed in trying to fix it.
the biggest, over-arching problem today. And for the record, I"m not in any teachers union, and I agree pretty much what most here are saying. Public education has become a disgrace of inflated numbers and looking pretty for the parents. Ms. Devos, I wish you Godspeed in trying to fix it.
I'm not in disagreement. I like how you say remove them from their homes as much as possible. It's a good point. I see so many high school students who linger around after their practices...because they are in no hurry to go back to their home life. It's sad.
This is the cool "in" thing to do now for the right.
It's how they know you are in the club. Bash teachers and public education as much as possible. In their perfect little Mayberry world, they know how to do it and do it right. Jesus and Ovaltine.
Yeah but you only have first hand experience that has lasted nearly a decade so what do you know?
I get that some people WANT to believe that every little Jim and Sally are going to eventually turn into good little students and members of society but that just isn't going to happen. Fact is those that will do well and those that won't do well in school and in life self identify at a pretty young age. Sure some of them will beat that reputation they have built up for themselves but will it happen at any sort of high significance...probably not. That is why it is better, IMO, to redirect these kids to something that will have a better chance of ever lasting value in their life. As I said, some people just are not built for academia and there is nothing wrong with that.
Closing in on TWO decades!Yeah but you only have first hand experience that has lasted nearly a decade so what do you know?
I get that some people WANT to believe that every little Jim and Sally are going to eventually turn into good little students and members of society but that just isn't going to happen. Fact is those that will do well and those that won't do well in school and in life self identify at a pretty young age. Sure some of them will beat that reputation they have built up for themselves but will it happen at any sort of high significance...probably not. That is why it is better, IMO, to redirect these kids to something that will have a better chance of ever lasting value in their life. As I said, some people just are not built for academia and there is nothing wrong with that.
And you are spot on with this post.
Yeah but you only have first hand experience that has lasted nearly a decade so what do you know?
I get that some people WANT to believe that every little Jim and Sally are going to eventually turn into good little students and members of society but that just isn't going to happen. Fact is those that will do well and those that won't do well in school and in life self identify at a pretty young age. Sure some of them will beat that reputation they have built up for themselves but will it happen at any sort of high significance...probably not. That is why it is better, IMO, to redirect these kids to something that will have a better chance of ever lasting value in their life. As I said, some people just are not built for academia and there is nothing wrong with that.
Many cities have "alternative" schools where students who can't learn or confirm to a traditional school can go. The one in our city does a hands-on learning approach and for some students who have failed in the traditional sense really enjoy that alternative approach. They seem to gain some confidence back and do well and even become productive members of society.
I think this is a good approach because it gives them another chance to be a successful student (in a different way). It also eliminates those students who may be a distraction in the classroom.
A variety of skills and disciplines that can lead them to success in a field that is interesting and engaging to them. Or do you think that a kid that has hated math all of his life is going to all of a sudden start loving it when it is taught in the exact same manner to them that it has all of their life (classroom setting).
I just read an intersting article (maybe from here or elsewhere) where a small European country (I forget which one) is dumping the idea of teaching subjects in blocks and instead is teaching subject matter content as they have occurred throughout history. So they may be studying a WW and during that process they are not just learning history but also are learning math, science, etc. throughout that events teaching.
I think that would be a great way for some of these non-classroom learners to pick up math, science, develop critical thinking skills. They can learn all of those things via trades education and at the same time they might just find a field/discipline they end up really enjoying. Hell they might find out they absolutely hate these things and maybe that gives them a kick in the pants on the academia side.
I am not sure why creative thinking such as this scares or makes you upset...its very strange behavior.
I think we all agree that they should learn a "variety of skills and disciplines that can lead them to success in a field that is interesting and engaging to them."
How to do that is always the difficult part. Looking to successful other nations would be a start.
I know the way not to do it is to continue doing things in a similar fashion as we have done the past few decades and just scream "throw more money at it". That is the definition of insanity IMO bc the results and outcomes will continue to be similar. I would rather fail trying something new vs wallowing in mediocrity while being too scared of screwing up something that isn't fully broken but also not fully working.
That sentiment of mine just doesn't apply to education though, its how I approach most things.
But again, you aren't really posting anything remotely close to a solution (not that you have to).
You have two ideas: (1) do something different and (2) do something that works.
Run for office.
I've described a different approach earlier to which you said...that won't work. So essentially you stated, keep doing the same thing.
That isn't what I said. You said something so vague as to be pointless. You said we need to do something different.
Even if we all agree, are you pretending that this will get something done? You didn't describe a "different approach," you just said to do something different.
Reminds me of the brilliance of Brink: "Skate better...."
I appreciate your thoughts on this matter unIowa, I sense your thoughts are sincere and there certainly is not a ridiculously obvious bias showing through...which makes them rare too!
Smoking weed and getting drunk wasn't a major in high school for me.
