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Betsy Devos Confirmed via Pence Vote

Nope. It's no secret that donations plummeted once access to the White House was not going to come to fruition. This isn't hard stuff. And it's certainly not made up

Losing donations, a large amount due to ending the CGI which was planned prior to the election, is not the same as basically shuttering. You just believe what conservative twitter tells you, though, so I don't fault you for being wrong. You are just a simple man that believes the things that fit your narrative.
 
My honest answer is if they don't know basic math, science or reading by their JR year do you think 2 more year of straight book learning is going to help? A few, sure, the masses in that situation...probably not.

Also, YES, I would see that trades path as very intense and with lots of field work involved. Some kids just don't learn in a classroom setting, it isn't how their brains work. I would foresee a big need for a strong public/private partnership between the business and school community with an option such as this.

Or hell why not teach them all these trades via a habitat for humanity project that spans a whole year or semester. They would not only learn the crafts but also end up being prideful in their work...that is a win win.

Thanks for the response.

Again, I'm not against your idea. It's something I think has some legitimacy and should be considered. Just tossing around the unintended consequences of such a decision. I do think it would help the skills gap in the trades. Some localities are really seeing a shortage in those areas.
 
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Loving this meltdown. Beautiful.

You guys should stop voting democrat and fight for smaller government and less federal control if you are so concerned about one person destroying childrens lives.

Who knew you guys were actually conservatives....
 
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Do you want results or do you just want people to feel good?

Its an honest questions.

I have no earthly idea what the hell that has to do with the question asked. It's an honest statement.

I'll ask again - try to focus - what are your plans for the kids who are kicked out of school?
 
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Loving this meltdown. Beautiful.

You guys should stop voting democrat and fight for smaller government and less federal control if you are so concerned about one person destroying childrens lives.

Who knew you guys were actually conservatives....

Can you post anything remotely intelligent? Try. Please.

What's being opposed here is the appointment of a political cash cow to a position for which she is imminently unqualified. Since when were you in favor of that?
 
Thanks for the response.

Again, I'm not against your idea. It's something I think has some legitimacy and should be considered. Just tossing around the unintended consequences of such a decision. I do think it would help the skills gap in the trades. Some localities are really seeing a shortage in those areas.

I believe that shortage is bc at an early age our society has decided to put 99% of academic importance around book learning. The cause and effect of that has not only hurt the trades from a numbers perspective but it has also harmed the reputation of those who enter these fields.

I say this as a white collar worker through and through but as one who has great respect for the people that work these jobs.
 
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I have no earthly idea what the hell that has to do with the question asked. It's an honest statement.

I'll ask again - try to focus - what are your plans for the kids who are kicked out of school?

Let capitalism work is my answer. These kids are going to have a tough tough life.

I honestly don't think you are willing to change from the current system and take any risk in the hopes of getting better results. Instead you seem to be ok with the system continuing to get poor results.
 
I believe that shortage is bc at an early age our society has decided to put 99% of academic importance around book learning. The cause and effect of that has not only hurt the trades from a numbers perspective but it has also harmed the reputation of those who enter these fields.

I say this as a white collar worker through and through but as one who has great respect for the people that work these jobs.

Meh. I think it's a supply and demand thing.

At some point in the last 30 or so years, employment shifted to white collar and educated jobs and therefore education and those in it pushed students towards that. Rightfully so. Now, the pendulum has swung back a bit in the other direction. Our economy has a need for service workers and skilled trades.
 
Let capitalism work is my answer. These kids are going to have a tough tough life.

I honestly don't think you are willing to change from the current system and take any risk in the hopes of getting better results. Instead you seem to be ok with the system continuing to get poor results.
You're still not addressing the central problem with private schools. What happens to the kids they kick out? It's easy to point to success when you don't have to worry about keeping marginal students in school.
 
You're still not addressing the central problem with private schools. What happens to the kids they kick out? It's easy to point to success when you don't have to worry about keeping marginal students in school.

I have been suggesting in this thread that schools need to expand outside of what is today a 90%+ academic/book learning environment. I think that would go a long ways into engaging some of what schools have labeled as "problem students" as they were just not wired for book learning. For those that remain a distraction to the other students or who create a dangerous environment I think they should be removed from the schools and not allowed to return (obviously with exceptions and not as a 1 strike rule).

At that point let capitalism take care of them. They will have a tough life, things won't be easy and maybe people seeing what that route leads to will encourage them not to go down the same path. Just like we need to let companies fail we need to let people fail as well.
 
I have been suggesting in this thread that schools need to expand outside of what is today a 90%+ academic/book learning environment. I think that would go a long ways into engaging some of what schools have labeled as "problem students" as they were just not wired for book learning. For those that remain a distraction to the other students or who create a dangerous environment I think they should be removed from the schools and not allowed to return (obviously with exceptions and not as a 1 strike rule).

At that point let capitalism take care of them. They will have a tough life, things won't be easy and maybe people seeing what that route leads to will encourage them not to go down the same path. Just like we need to let companies fail we need to let people fail as well.
A company can fail because it can simply dissolve and go away. A person cannot. They will still exist. So what do you do with them after? Why is it appropriate to dumb down our school systems and be ok with our children failing?
 
A company can fail because it can simply dissolve and go away. A person cannot. They will still exist. So what do you do with them after? Why is it appropriate to dumb down our school systems and be ok with our children failing?

Please do point out where I have suggested dumbing things down. I guess you are one of those guys who look down on blue collar and trade workers...hey, maybe stop being an asshole to those people, they are great Americans.
 
Please do point out where I have suggested dumbing things down. I guess you are one of those guys who look down on blue collar and trade workers...hey, maybe stop being an asshole to those people, they are great Americans.
You literally just said these kids should no longer be guaranteed a minimal level of education, but instead be given basic job skills and nothing more. What else would you call that but dumbing them down?
 
You really think it's appropriate to not teach certain kids basic things like science, history, and math, but simply teach them how to install ductwork instead? You're basically setting them up for a life of failure with thinking like that.
 
You really think it's appropriate to not teach certain kids basic things like science, history, and math, but simply teach them how to install ductwork instead? You're basically setting them up for a life of failure with thinking like that.

You really think they can't learn that stuff by their JR year in HS? Also your complete lack of knowledge and respect towards people that do that sort of work is showing...what an elitist asshole you are.

Hey smart guy how much do you get paid? I bet that HAVAC guy makes more than you.
 
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You really think they can't learn that stuff by their JR year in HS? Also your complete lack of knowledge and respect towards people that do that sort of work is showing...what an elitist asshole you are.

Hey smart guy how much do you get paid? I bet that HAVAC guy makes more than you.
I have tons of respect for blue collar guys. I am a blue collar guy. I come from a family of blue collar guys. But to tell some kid in high school that he is no longer deserving of a full education because somehow you think you can make the determination, by the time he is 16, that all he will amount to is dry-walling is beyond stupid.

How did you even get to this point where you think someone's life should be set by the time they get their first license?
 
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I have tons of respect for blue collar guys. I am a blue collar guy. I come from a family of blue collar guys. But to tell some kid in high school that he is no longer deserving of a full education because somehow you think you can make the determination, by the time he is 16, that all he will amount to is dry-walling is beyond stupid.

No it isn't. Trying to force a kid into academia when they clearly don't have it (and some of those are quite obvious by then...and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT) is what is a waste. They would be better off taking these trade classes. Your words really do show you have a low opinion of these types of jobs. You know some of these wrench turners turn into business owners right???

Taking calculus even algebra 2 probably isn't going to help them out any. But you keep believing that 100% of kids are college bound.

I will keep saying that teaching trades isn't dumbing down education, it is helping lift those kids up who that clicks with. Do you think mechanics are dummies too Huey?
 
When schools have to compete for students, they will improve.

If students are forced to go to a particular school, then there isn't any real motivation for that school to improve. They have a captive audience. But if students and parents are empowered to vote with their feet, things WILL improve and/or chronically-bad schools will close their doors.
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On avg we spend around $165k per student K - 12, money isn't the issue. Allocation of resources certainly might be poor but the amount dumping into the system certain is not.

Based on what, the scary number? Or does your opinion go deeper than that?
 
Well, that might be because, at the state level, it is a right. And what do we do with the kids who get kicked out?
The same thing these kids do when they drop out or get done without ACTUALLY learning anything because they chose not to. I am tired of teaching to the low instead of challenging the high. So many kids have zero desire to be educated. They are in school because the law says they have to be. They spend so much of their time disrupting the learning environment for the other 80% of the kids who want to learn. This isn't every school, but these behaviors are prevalent in many larger city middle and high schools.
 
This.

This is one hundred percent about protecting their teachers unions.
No. I'm a teacher and the only reason I am in the union is because I coach girls. As soon as I am done coaching I am out. This latest contract vote, when they encouraged us to give up rights our school district has been dying to take from us for years, they lost me. The union does nothing for us now.
 
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My honest answer is if they don't know basic math, science or reading by their JR year do you think 2 more year of straight book learning is going to help? A few, sure, the masses in that situation...probably not.

Also, YES, I would see that trades path as very intense and with lots of field work involved. Some kids just don't learn in a classroom setting, it isn't how their brains work. I would foresee a big need for a strong public/private partnership between the business and school community with an option such as this.

Or hell why not teach them all these trades via a habitat for humanity project that spans a whole year or semester. They would not only learn the crafts but also end up being prideful in their work...that is a win win.

A lot of schools do this.
 
The same thing these kids do when they drop out or get done without ACTUALLY learning anything because they chose not to. I am tired of teaching to the low instead of challenging the high. So many kids have zero desire to be educated. They are in school because the law says they have to be. They spend so much of their time disrupting the learning environment for the other 80% of the kids who want to learn. This isn't every school, but these behaviors are prevalent in many larger city middle and high schools.

So what do you do with them? Ignore them?

At what financial cost?
 
No. I'm a teacher and the only reason I am in the union is because I coach girls. As soon as I am done coaching I am out. This latest contract vote, when they encouraged us to give up rights our school district has been dying to take from us for years, they lost me. The union does nothing for us now.
It's amazing that the right still cling's to the teachers's union.
 
I have tons of respect for blue collar guys. I am a blue collar guy. I come from a family of blue collar guys. But to tell some kid in high school that he is no longer deserving of a full education because somehow you think you can make the determination, by the time he is 16, that all he will amount to is dry-walling is beyond stupid.

How did you even get to this point where you think someone's life should be set by the time they get their first license?
I hear you. I think the same way he does but believe if a kid shows he or she want to head back to the college prep path they should be able to. I don't want to pigeon hole kids, but when they are showing no desire to learn the tools they need to get to college, and until they do, they can go to a trade/vocational/whatever you want to call it school.
 
So what do you do with them? Ignore them?

At what financial cost?
I don't have the answer and I have been in education for 17 years. But letting kids ruin the learning environment for others who want to learn isn't working for our larger public school systems. Sending these kids to a different type of public school - for kids who don't want to go to college perhaps. I have been in buildings where the kids who want to learn become so frustrated because teachers are constantly dealing with behaviors from kids who are just there because they have to be. So many schools are out of control because of student behavior and the adults don't have much power...and the kids know it.

Maybe these kids end up going to a pre-military environment. Or a national public service environment. I'm open for suggestions.
 
I don't want to pigeon hole kids

This is one of my biggest concerns with this type of education. Do you allow kids to go back to the college prep route? What if a kid realizes at 18 that he would have rather gone the college prep route? Can he or she still apply for college in their current standing or do they have to redo the last 2 to 3 years of high school?
 
This is one of my biggest concerns with this type of education. Do you allow kids to go back to the college prep route? What if a kid realizes at 18 that he would have rather gone the college prep route? Can he or she still apply for college in their current standing or do they have to redo the last 2 to 3 years of high school?
I would probably think they would have to get an associate degree first from a JUCO. Not 100% sure. Maybe a college prep school for a year to get the tools they need to get a 4 year degree. You are talking to someone who isn't a big math guy. Meaning, I think they push so much math on students at the high school level. In my opinion, the majority of us don't use algebra, calculus, advanced geometry. Most of us use functional math skills. Now if a kid decides he/she wants to get into engineering after they left college prep...well, then we may have a problem! :)
 
When schools have to compete for students, they will improve.

If students are forced to go to a particular school, then there isn't any real motivation for that school to improve. They have a captive audience. But if students and parents are empowered to vote with their feet, things WILL improve and/or chronically-bad schools will close their doors.
You city folk are in for a shock.
 
I would probably think they would have to get an associate degree first from a JUCO. Not 100% sure. Maybe a college prep school for a year to get the tools they need to get a 4 year degree. You are talking to someone who isn't a big math guy. Meaning, I think they push so much math on students at the high school level. In my opinion, the majority of us don't use algebra, calculus, advanced geometry. Most of us use functional math skills. Now if a kid decides he/she wants to get into engineering after they left college prep...well, then we may have a problem! :)
Math skills are so much more than just adding numbers up, it actually has to deal with problem solving skills.
 
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You're right, less money and more kids per classroom seems to be working wonders. I know! Let's give them some laptops and cut another teacher so it looks like they're all 21st century. Meanwhile kids are graduating high school who cannot do math, don't grasp science, and can't write proper English. Cutting school funding has created a generation of imbeciles.
Have we cut funding? I think we just shifted it all to trying to educate the imbeciles. Private teachers aids to follow around each special ed kid needs to be rethought.
 
How about the millions of students in rural America. No options. Quality of schools is basically good but less attention is spelling disaster. Many are in trouble. The states are letting them deteriorate now, like Iowa. This is a blind woman in a dark closet.
What does a blind woman in a dark closet mean? Sounds like it might neutralize her disability.
 
No. I'm a teacher and the only reason I am in the union is because I coach girls. As soon as I am done coaching I am out. This latest contract vote, when they encouraged us to give up rights our school district has been dying to take from us for years, they lost me. The union does nothing for us now.
That can't be true. I hear stories where teachers sit around getting paid to eat government cheese and watch movies all day. You can't fool us.
 
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