Carl Sagan on the Existence of God
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
If you read the OT, plenty of figures suffer in the name of God. I do not see a pattern of reward for faith. The theme I read out of Job is the sovereignty of God.
This is something you're really wonder about? How many "Americans" will be saved?
Do you believe God is a Christian? For that matter, do you think God has some favoritism for the United States???
I believe Christ was the resurrection. But, again... I have no way of knowing for absolute certain what happened 2000 years ago. I have no way of knowing what happened 200 years ago! I can't absolutely vouch for anything that happens outside of my own personal experience. No one can do that, that I'm aware of.
For me, it doesn't really matter if it ACTUALLY did or not. I'm more interested in the present-tense understanding of what I experience and realize. I know treating others as you wish to be treated is important. That's something I can acknowledge and demonstrate right now.
You may be interested in work of psychiatrist Carl Jung (and maybe Dostoevsky). I would start by trying to get an understanding of Archetypes and the collective unconsciousness (maybe on youtube) and maybe some of his lighter works and work your way up to Aion and the Red Book. That's what I've been reading recently.
James 3:17 But the wisdom from above, first, indeed, is pure, then peaceable, gentle, well-convinced, full of kindness and good fruits, uncontentious, and unhypocritical—
Jame 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I like this video particularly his comments starting about 8:10 but other bits to.
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Thanks! I read both in college.
Jung "Memories, Dreams and Reflections" was great.
"Notes from the Underground" by Dostoyevsky may be my favorite book.
I also read "Crime and Punishment" and "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.
Was Jung a Christian? I don't think so but could never figure it out.
Dostoevsky definitely was.
Well you’re ahead of me then. I haven’t read “Notes from the Underground”. I’ll have to put that on my list.
It’s a bit controversial whether Carl Jung was a Christian. He was definitely raised a Christian. I believe he was, privately. When asked if he believed in God as a child he said “Oh yes” and when asked about now he said “(now) I know. I don’t need to believe”. He later walked that back a bit apparently.
No I haven't. Just googled him. Believe it or not though, I was just (before reading your post) wondering whether Buddhists get leeway under John 3:3-7. Or even an atheist like Sam Harris who is a big proponent of spiritualism thru meditation.
Alan Watts was, originally, raised Catholic. I think he "evolved" into a more Eastern belief system.
For parts of this he almost sounds like Christopher Hitchens (which I don't mind) but his comments on Divine inspiration starting at about 12:30 I really like. He even briefly mentions archetypes and the collective unconscious so a Carl Jung influence. "Or it (divine inspiration) might come thru dreams, thru archetypal messages from the collective unconscious thru which the holy spirit could be said to work." I think it's much deeper than that though (difficult to explain of course as he says).
I thought t was interesting how he suggested that Christianity institutionalized GUILT as a virtue!
It's interesting, and important, to note that, prior to approximately the 19th century, there was no such thing as the Pope's "infallibility" and the Bible as being "absolutely correct." That was introduced in and around the beginning of 19th Century. Imagine the 1800 years prior, where that kind of thinking could be considered idolatrous. It's really had a profound effect on how it has come to be interpreted. And, I don't think the effect has been very positive.
Well, if I understand you correctly, the bit about religion post-1800, in the backdrop (or underlying ideas or collective unconscious) of the likes of Nietzsche, Marx, Engels, Darwin, and so on, some of them sort of radical ideas even today, it sort of makes sense that a portion of society would have a backlash in the opposite direction.
Here's a joke for ya.
Whew! I have to close my eyes and listen to him. All those Parkinson's-like tics are distracting to me. I've LISTENED to him before and his accent is soooo thick that it's difficult for me.
But, I did get the point.
Saint Thomas Aquinas was the only fat guy in the Middle Ages and I think he got in. 😆😄😆😄😆
By the way, Alan Watts recommends C G Jung "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" here at 40:00. It's the only book I've heard him directly recommend. I've been listening to some of his talks on Youtube, pretty good stuff.
Oh, for sure. Watts was a step on the path to Jung. It's a one, constant realization for me.
I would just say bits resonated as true, were synthesized, built on and he walked down his own path (with his own nuanced thoughts and tons of other influences). It sort of happens that way thru history, of course. I didn't mean to overemphasize Jung, just inspired me recently.
