Pyles probably wonders this because there are other teams out there that have stated they have unlimited budgets that don’t do what PSU is doing. Not sure what you guys don’t comprehend. This just sounds like another PSU is cheating claim by the compliance hall monitor, Vodka.
Christian Pyles - Emergency FRL
- Thread starter Is_there_vodka_in_heaven
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Well that Tom Brands interview was after the FRL episode, so Pyles was going off of the fact that Penn State has $5.7M while the next closest to them is Iowa at $600k, but continue to be obtuse about that whole "unlimited budget" quote. Tom explained what he meant about the unlimited budget comment, but you decided to leave it out of your quote.
it’s appears both came out on Friday and I have no clue who’s came out first . And that’s Tom’s quote not mine. You want the whole thing fine...
“We are not cutting funding,” he said. “As a matter of fact, we have an unlimited budget, meaning whatever’s best for our women and whatever’s best for our Hawkeye Wrestling Club is what we’re going to do. We’ve talked to all four of them that with the change of the Olympic Games, you just came off a major peak and a letdown, so now let’s get into some difficult self-evaluations. And you’re going to have to decide, if you continue, that you’re going to have to have some real good self-assessments. That’s normal. We talk to all of our Hawkeye Wrestling Club athletes that way and we talk to our roster that way.“
You can spin it any way you want but when a head coach says they have an unlimited budget to do what is best for the HWC it’s fair for Pyles to says PSU is doing something different.
The Tom Brands 'unlimited budget' interview was 10 hrs after the emergency FRL. i'm not suggesting anything other than that 019 is off his rocker.
Truth is, I will find it difficult to root for all American wrestlers equally. When college wrestling divides fan bases on a gut level it is hard to forget how some matches went down. It’s ok to be a bit of a homer when it comes to NCAA wrestling, I just find it tough to disconnect when the rival’s club is connected to the rival. I consider myself an unflinching American, but when a guy in a USA singlet has spent most of his post college career sporting a NLWC singlet, how am I going to unsee that! Just being honest here.
It's also a fact that the Brands interview came after the FRL episode, but you didn't care about that fact when saying in your post that Pyles was under the assumption that the HWC has an unlimited budget, even though in the episode itself he said how Penn State's RTC has twice as much as the other 19 clubs combined. But, continue to be obtuse and try to say that this thread is just another "Penn State is cheating claim" even though no one else has mentioned that but yourself.
It appears to be difficult to stay on subject here. The one program and comments from that is what was being discussed. Not that smalls has brought it up in the past or cp has, not Tom 10 hours later saying ‘unlimited budget’ or years of ‘they cheat’ but about that program. It wasn’t an accurate representation of how what provides the advantage. Mention $’s once then go on to promote the things that $’s allow you to do, repeatedly. Not real complicated.
Gilman & Perry leaving did not have everything to do with money, but you can bet your ass it was part of the equation!
It not that easy to just produce an “unlimited“ budget and I can guarantee that TNT’s version of an unlimited budget is a lot more conservative then Carl & Co.
To just say go out and get more funding is a whole lot easier at some places than others.
If Harvard took some of their huge endowment and wanted the best wrestling team in the country would they be able to do it?
It not that easy to just produce an “unlimited“ budget and I can guarantee that TNT’s version of an unlimited budget is a lot more conservative then Carl & Co.
To just say go out and get more funding is a whole lot easier at some places than others.
If Harvard took some of their huge endowment and wanted the best wrestling team in the country would they be able to do it?
I think you are missing his point. Not trying to argue but where you lost most of us was with "they did the work"!!! One guy donated 5 million, I'm not sure how that can be considered doing the work. That is the main disconnect here is that money put PSU at a huge advantage and the PSU faithful and many at flo seem to mention the money as an afterthought! Heck I believe if Indiana, Rutgers, Utah Valley put in"the work" and got a 5 million dollar donor they would quickly rise to the top as well. Maybe even Maryland!!!
What even is this thread? Pyles talked about it, you guys are mad because he doesn't believe it's everything. That's a difference of opinion, not worthy of this level of anger. We got Willie Saylor in here defending Pyles in these times and you guys are just being ridiculous. Nobody denies Penn State has more money, everybody knows it. It was LITERALLY THE FIRST THING PYLES TALKED ABOUT WHEN TALKING ABOUT GILMAN LEAVING.
You know what would have been a fun 45 minutes? Pyles, Bratke, and Nomad rambling on about how much money Penn State has as opposed to examining anything else.
You know what would have been a fun 45 minutes? Pyles, Bratke, and Nomad rambling on about how much money Penn State has as opposed to examining anything else.
Thomas Gilman in flowrestling interview “its not about the money” when asked about NLWC.
Wonder what excuse Vodka comes up with now.
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It's just a different landscape between the two. NL gets to pay a director $70K to run the club, their investment income is more than a Polar Plunge raises. That being said 45 minutes of mixing in the reasons for the ability to lure top notch talent would have been better than 1 minute of $'s and 44 minutes of "eye of the tiger"
I thought CP was pretty fair. He literally led with the fact that they have twice as much money as every other RTC combined and that allows them to be way more aggressive than other programs. They can pretty much kick the tires on every top guy in the country.
Too many people on this board are way too sensitive. Iowa is the top program in the country right now. Act like it.
Too many people on this board are way too sensitive. Iowa is the top program in the country right now. Act like it.
Yep, he actually said he could get more money outside the NLWC and HWC. I’m assuming he meant taking a coaching job and receiving a training stipend both.
Yeah I'm sure Gilman is selling his house and moving across the country to compete for free when he could start a career coaching.
I'm sure he's being compensated well for competing at the NLWC. Do you think if Nebraska offered him $200k to wrestle at their RTC he would turn that down? (Assuming he's being paid significantly less than that at NLWC).
Who's angry? The only people heated in this thread are you and Willie.
Did you read the whole thread and still don't follow? If so, there is not really a lot more that can be said to clarify. The point seems to have gone over your head.
No, your point just has no basis in reality, other than your opinion that the only thing that matters is the money. Pyles addressed it, and then started talking about other factors. Gilman literally just told us it wasn't about the money and he's not making any more at NLWC vs. HWC. And I have one post (now 2) in this thread, you have something like 20 where you keep castigating people for disagreeing with you, so I'd definitely say the evidence points to ME being the one fired up.
You have a guy who's literally embroiled in a lawsuit with Flo and has publicly criticized Pyles specifically in this thread telling you you're off base and you refuse to let it go.
No sensitivity. Just discussion.
He led with RTC funding disparities as I mentioned in the original post, but then later in the episode went on to praise NLWC for having the eye of the tiger, going out and making offers, and "thinking of things that other clubs aren't", "the game is there to be played and if Iowa plays it they can get these elite guys too", "things can go either way and right now their going PSUs way".
Within the context of all of those discussions, no mention of funding disparity was made other than "I don't think PSU outbid HWC for Gilman" which is a no shit...Spencer's in the room. But did they outbid Arizona state? How many RTCs could make a realistic offer that could even come close to matching NLWC.
Again, this isn't "boohoo PSU has more money". Good for them. If not violating rules, then there is nothing to discredit them for having more money and building a bigger RTC. Props. But you can't sit back and comment as if other RTCs are just lacking the ingenuity, or work ethic to go out and get talent. It's nearly 100% a funding issue. That doesn't mean, it's necessarily wrong or unfair (that can be debated), but it does mean it's disingenuous to talk about the club going out and getting athletes without budget being the main component of the conversation.
For those who keep saying "he did mention RTC funding". Yeah he did at the very beginning, but then proceeded to say "more than the money" and list a bunch of actions that are impossible to do without money. doesn't make a lot of sense.
If the point is still being missed after being clarified ad nauseum, then there's nothing more that can be said to lead to comprehension.
Vak, I said outright, Gilmans situation of leaving HWC to go to NLWC is not due to money. We all are aware of that.
But does him going to NLWC over the Sun Devil Club or the Nebraska RTC have to do with money? We're either of them able to make an offer? If they could beat NLWC's offer by 200% do you think then it would become about the money?
Do you think Gilman is competing at NLWC on a volunteer basis?
Dude. If everybody says it's not about money, including Gilman who, for all of his verbal faults, prevarication is not one of them, what are we still doing here? Is everybody, Gilman included, lying?
It seems pretty clear that this is a combination of Perry leaving, Lee being there, and training situation, plus his fiancee being from there.
Lets remove all other factors: if he's not training in Iowa City, where is the best training situation for him? It's pretty clearly NLWC.
He said in his interview it is a parallel move. He didn't go to NLWC for money. He went for partners, coaching, and family. Quit your whining
You continue to twist my premise. Which I deliberately said in the original post don't misconstrue my point, I'm not claiming Gilman left HWC for NLWC due to money. Not sure why you continue to discuss as if that's my claim.
My claim is that no other club in the country can make an offer to match NLWC, so how can it be said, that they just have a different mindset (eye of the tiger) about pursuing elite athletes.
Is Gilman, competing for free at NLWC? If not, then by definition, money is a factor.
Now if he had turned down higher offers from other clubs (besides Iowa - bc Spencer Lee is the guy), then you and him could claim it isn't about money.
Your premise that money is the thing that allows them to pursue other wrestlers is flawed.
Gilman is in his mid twenties. You can't remove all other factors, when that other factor is money. He isn't competing for free. He has bills. It's a career. All else equal, NLWC might still be his choice. That isn't my dispute. My dispute, is with CP discussion NLWC pursuit of athletes to a more intense degree than other RTCs as if money isn't the underlying reason for that.
Hope that helps to clarify.
fwiw Gilman said on the Bader show today that he could have gotten more money elsewhere but chose NLWC.
Care to explain how it's flawed? What's your reasoning? Do you have insight on how much RTCs are paying the athletes? Are there any world class caliber Americans competing for free?
Is elsewhere a coaching gig or competing gig?
Appreciate the info. If an RTC, I wonder which. Contracts being private make it impossible to know true details of RTCs unlike most professional sports.
To further this, if one club can afford to pay 5+ world class athletes and training partners for those athletes whereas another club could maybe afford to pay 1 and outbid them on that 1. The athlete may still choose NLWC due to training partners and training environment which is afforded by the heavy funding disparity.
If Nebraska wrestling club had $5 million and 5 world class athletes, and NLWC had $500k, and 1. I wonder who would have the eye of the tiger.
The point is - at the senior / RTC level, that is the "professional" level of wrestling. At that point to discuss athlete acquisitions without considering money isn't realistic. As someone else mentioned, if 1 NFL team with $30 mil in cap space makes 3 big free agent moves and another team with $5mil does nothing, what caused that discrepancy in free agent activity?
It's not about competing for free. Some people aren't motivated by money at all. Gilman very clearly is motivated by competing in and winning the Olympics and ptoentially his fiancee's desire to be close to home. If someone says to Gilman, hey we can offer you a great training situation plus meet your wife's desires to be close to home, that has nothing to do with money.
Besides for that, wrestling is very much built on old-school mores of "handshake agreements" and such. If Penn State is willing to go outside that, which we have all talked about ad nauseum in the "recruiting over" discussion, it doesn't have anything to do with money and just a difference in mindset. We've talked forever about Iowa having to shift their mindset, but the Brands brothers are not the only old school guys in the sport. I'm guessing a whole lot of the community would feel it's "dishonorable" to contact another RTC's athlete, whereas Penn State doesn't care about that.
But Pyles DID consider money. Just not enough for your liking, apparently.
I get this point and it has merit. Not sure on whether the more money statement referred to coaching as well.
Hmmm, so NLWC being able to afford a multitude of world class athletes and create a great training environment + being able to offer a livable salary during a recession doesn't play a significant factor in their ability to entice elite athletes from outside PSU (such as Snyder and Gilman) to join their club?
If Retherford, Snyder, DT, and Nolf, Nickal, etc were training elsewhere would Gilman still have gone to NLWC?
Because you can't discuss the acquisition of professional athletes without discussing money. My employer didn't hire me over other firms because they have the eye of the tiger.
What I am getting out of all of this is the HWC and the NLWC are leading the pack in the RTC field that isn't surprising. So what limit do you draw the line on RTC'S I mean we go ahead and build this new complex and they make it so rtc's are to disband from University programs the new facility is deemed useless because it is on the University property. Yes they have a big donor it sucks for us but it really sucks for is for the little guys not Iowa, Ohio State, etc. Sorry this argument/ discussion is redundant!
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