City High / Fairfield Basketball Game Drama

[torbee]

Boom! Fairfield calling the bluff, I love it. Your turn ICCSD/City High.

To be fair, they may be doubling down on their bad hand.

Thus far, NEITHER side has presented any actual evidence or detailed information.

 

[lucas80]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

 

[torbee]

Thanks for the writeup Lucas. Much as I predicted yesterday, it sounds like language used that could be construed as racist if not outright.

But beyond that, this is the thing that bothers me the most:

I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice.

What kind of mealy-mouthed, pussified AD lets contract refs tell him who or who not to kick out of HIS school's gym? Eff that Ess. Those refs need to be removed. That is ludicrous.

 

[Chuck C]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

Since that’s the City High perspective, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[RNHawk]

Thanks for the writeup Lucas. Much as I predicted yesterday, it sounds like language used that could be construed as racist if not outright.

But beyond that, this is the thing that bothers me the most:

I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice.

What kind of mealy-mouthed, pussified AD lets contract refs tell him who or who not to kick out of HIS school's gym? Eff that Ess. Those refs need to be removed. That is ludicrous.

Because ultimately the officials are in control of the game and the venue during the game. They have more authority than the AD has. Not saying the referee was right in this instance, he shouldn't have done what he did to that parent (assuming what Lucas said was correct)

 

[RNHawk]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received.


In regards to this, if this did happen the officials lost complete control of the game. They should have immediately T'd up the player and if this was on the football field I would have tossed him. There is zero tolerance for this type of BS in Arizona high school athletics and the AIA (Arizona Athletic Association) would fully back me on it

 

[EasyHawk]

At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received.


In regards to this, if this did happen the officials lost complete control of the game. They should have immediately T'd up the player and if this was on the football field I would have tossed him. There is zero tolerance for this type of BS in Arizona high school athletics and the AIA (Arizona Athletic Association) would fully back me on it

And their coach should have immediately stopped it. I don’t think many coaches would allow it.

 

[RNHawk]

And their coach should have immediately stopped it. I don’t think many coaches would allow it.

yep, I will add that the officials should have stopped the game and addressed both head coaches and captains and tell them that you were not going to tolerate anymore of it. I did that last year in a football game, told both teams and head coaches that the next player who gets an unsportsmanlike penalty is an automatic ejection (not allowed to get 2 before getting ejected). We went back to playing football after that

 

[OILCHECKER]

its pretty much the same thing but news sources are too soft to say racist

Thanks for the writeup Lucas. Much as I predicted yesterday, it sounds like language used that could be construed as racist if not outright.

But beyond that, this is the thing that bothers me the most:

I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice.

What kind of mealy-mouthed, pussified AD lets contract refs tell him who or who not to kick out of HIS school's gym? Eff that Ess. Those refs need to be removed. That is ludicrous.

This is part of the refs/officials jurisdiction. If the ref says someone has to go, they have to go. If the ad or school rep refuses to follow the officials request, the game may be forfeited and the ad/school would expect further penalties from the ishsaa.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

I have heard similar reports to what you detailed, plenty of blame to go around it appears. I’m of the opinion that most of the fault lies with the officials involved. Good officials will control the level of physical play in the game and not let things spin out of control. The same goes for what is being said both on and off the court. If you don’t set the tone early this can easily happen. Additionally there’s zero reason for an official to be pointing fingers at anyone and making statements like that to a coach which can be easily misinterpreted. Again, as an official you set the tone of the environment, it sounds as if this crew failed in that regard.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Commenting only as it relates to the authority that referees have in Iowa HS contests...

I am under the understanding that they are the final authority as to whether someone should be removed from the crowd for disruptive behavior, etc. I witnessed such a thing a few years back at a HS wrestling meet. Someone in the crowd, actually the guy sitting next to me, was barking at the refs and being quite critical of them during a match his son was wrestling, etc, etc.

Finally, he must have went over the line and the ref stopped the match, probably about 50-75 feet away, marched over to the crowd and pointed at the person he thought had been yelling at him and told him to leave the gym...pronto. Only he pointed at me, not the guy doing the yelling.

What? Knowing my son was coming up soon, I really didn't want to miss that so I started to say something and he cut me off hard and told me that I needed to leave NOW. Just as I was standing up, I really can't even say what I was going to do for sure as this all came as a giant surprise to me and happened so fast, the actual yeller stood up and "took the bullet" and admitted it was him that had been yelling and he left.

Later, an assistant coach told me that I would have been obligated to leave, per the direction of the ref, had the other guy not cleared it up. What? I had not done anything out of line at all...but I came real close to being kicked out, thankfully the other dad stepped up. I would have been pretty mad to have been kicked out for someone elses' crap. But, unless the coach was wrong about it, it certainly sounded to me like the refs had the final say so. FWIW.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Talked to a good friend who's a 20 year football and bball high school ref. Knows the staff and called bs from the start. John bacon is a clown. Probably didn't like getting teased about his fanny pack.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

The ref bashing in this thread, and the tendency to believe the accusations hurled at them, is the least surprising thing on this board today.

And some wonder why there's a shortage. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a coordinated boycott in the future.

I think in a previous thread someone indicated that the crew that was scheduled to do the Davenport game after the last allegation, refused to do the game and they had to scramble to find another crew.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

Talked to a good friend who's a 20 year football and bball high school ref. Knows the staff and called bs from the start. John bacon is a clown. Probably didn't like getting teased about his fanny pack.

Your reliability around here is less than zero FYI.

 

[torbee]

Because ultimately the officials are in control of the game and the venue during the game. They have more authority than the AD has. Not saying the referee was right in this instance, he shouldn't have done what he did to that parent (assuming what Lucas said was correct)

That is insane.

Aren’t high school refs just contract workers with zero ties or responsibility to the school district?

That is a horrible system.

 

[torbee]

This is part of the refs/officials jurisdiction. If the ref says someone has to go, they have to go. If the ad or school rep refuses to follow the officials request, the game may be forfeited and the ad/school would expect further penalties from the ishsaa.

Insanity.

So people not affiliated with a school district get to dictate who is and who isn’t allowed inside district facilities? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

 

[OILCHECKER]

This is part of the refs/officials jurisdiction. If the ref says someone has to go, they have to go. If the ad or school rep refuses to follow the officials request, the game may be forfeited and the ad/school would expect further penalties from the ishsaa.

Insanity.

So people not affiliated with a school district get to dictate who is and who isn’t allowed inside district facilities? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

Cops aren't affiliated with a district but can remove someone

 

[torbee]

Cops aren't affiliated with a district but can remove someone

Well cops are also municipal/county/state employees who swear an oath to abide and support the Constition whose job literally is to serve and protect citizens.

If I understand correct, refs are just contracted part timers pulled off the street doing this for a little extra cash.

You really think that’s equivalent?

 

[EasyHawk]

Insanity.

So people not affiliated with a school district get to dictate who is and who isn’t allowed inside district facilities? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

As far as I know it has always been that way, but in all my years I’ve rarely seen fans removed and when they have been it has been absolutely warranted. I don’t think any umpires or refs are hoping to kick someone out, it takes a lot. Our AD used to go sit by parents if a ref said they were close to being asked to leave.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Insanity.

So people not affiliated with a school district get to dictate who is and who isn’t allowed inside district facilities? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

Why is it stupid? You think if a ref wanted Ashley Joens father removed but Jamie pollard said no that pollard should get the final say? NCAA, national hs assoc, all high school officials, NFL, NBA, mlb all have the same general policy concerning the ump/ref/officials having control of the gym/field from start to finish. Remember Steve McMichael signing the 7th inning stretch song at Wrigley and getting tossed?

 

[torbee]

As far as I know it has always been that way, but in all my years I’ve rarely seen fans removed and when they have been it has been absolutely warranted. I don’t think any umpires or refs are hoping to kick someone out, it takes a lot. Our AD used to go sit by parents if a ref said they were close to being asked to leave.

Im sorry but it is insane to me - and frankly seems like a huge liability issue to me - for school districts to willingly give up autonomy over who they allow in and out of their facilities. Particularly giving that power over to part time contract workers! That’s nucking futz!

 

[torbee]

Why is it stupid? You think if a ref wanted Ashley Joens father removed but Jamie pollard said no that pollard should get the final say? NCAA, national hs assoc, all high school officials, NFL, NBA, mlb all have the same general policy concerning the ump/ref/officials having control of the gym/field from start to finish. Remember Steve McMichael signing the 7th inning stretch song at Wrigley and getting tossed?

Professional refs in major college or pro sports? Sure.

Some dude off the street in BFE Iowa doing it for beer money? Hell no!

 

[Bearhawk0505]

I heard a similar account like above. I heard Swayzer questioned the official on the disparity of fouls called on his team and was told to, “know his place.” Swayzer was simply doing what all coaches do if many more fouls are being called on their team. And yes, I view this as blatantly racist coming from an older white referee.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Well cops are also municipal/county/state employees who swear an oath to abide and support the Constition whose job literally is to serve and protect citizens.

If I understand correct, refs are just contracted part timers pulled off the street doing this for a little extra cash.

You really think that’s equivalent?

They are essentially contractors. But they are considered impartial compared to coaches it school admin. Additionally, anytime there is an ejection or incident, the ref had to fill out an incident report and submit it to the state association. If a ref seems to have more than his share of ejections or incidents, this will become known and that ref likely won't get many future opportunities let alone any post season assignments. Trust me, no association wants to have problem refs as it gives all others a bad name. Those guys usually get weeded out and/or finding themselves only getting jv level competitions or working in shitty locations.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Professional refs in major college or pro sports? Sure.

Some dude off the street in BFE Iowa doing it for beer money? Hell no!

It's more than beer money. More like motorcycle or boat money.

 

[torbee]

They are essentially contractors. But they are considered impartial compared to coaches it school admin. Additionally, anytime there is an ejection or incident, the ref had to fill out an incident report and submit it to the state association. If a ref seems to have more than his share of ejections or incidents, this will become known and that ref likely won't get many future opportunities let alone any post season assignments. Trust me, no association wants to have problem refs as it gives all others a bad name. Those guys usually get weeded out and/or finding themselves only getting jv level competitions or working in shitty locations.

Look, I am not a ref hater. And yeah, they should absolutely have the power to identify and request that disruptive fans/parents etc. be removed. But I will never agree they should have the unilateral power to demand the removal of a tax paying citizen of that school district without the permission and agreement of a district administrator. Frankly, I am shocked if that is even enforceable legally.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

It only makes sense that the officiating crew has this discretionary power. Local officials and administrators are susceptible to viewing a situation in a light most favorable to their side.

 

[Pinehawk]

Insanity.

So people not affiliated with a school district get to dictate who is and who isn’t allowed inside district facilities? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.

I have seen it numerous times. There is one crew (one ref in particular) who I‘ve seen stop play to kick fans out several times. Just for yelling from the stands.

I do not see a ref telling a coach to ‘know his place’ as racist. It was much more likely a statement of authority from the ref to the coach. Which the coach read something into, that wasn’t there, due to high emotions. It was a confrontational statement though, which could have been handled better. Lot of mistakes from a lot of different people with this one.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Look, I am not a ref hater. And yeah, they should absolutely have the power to identify and request that disruptive fans/parents etc. be removed. But I will never agree they should have the unilateral power to demand the removal of a tax paying citizen of that school district without the permission and agreement of a district administrator. Frankly, I am shocked if that is even enforceable legally.

Legally? The law has nothing to do with it. These schools are all members of the Ihsaa and agree to abide by their rules. If the school doesn't want to remove someone they don't have it. But then they will end up forfeiting the game and their team likely won't get to participate in post season districts or state. Keep in mind, ejections arent common and having people removed is even less common.

 

[torbee]

Legally? The law has nothing to do with it. These schools are all members of the Ihsaa and agree to abide by their rules. If the school doesn't want to remove someone they don't have it. But then they will end up forfeiting the game and their team likely won't get to participate in post season districts or state. Keep in mind, ejections arent common and having people removed is even less common.

I’m glad it’s uncommon. I just fundamentally disagree with giving outside contract workers the power to evict taxpaying citizens from the facility they pay for without the approval of district administrators. Just on general principle.

 

[Pinehawk]

Taxpaying citizens!

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Look, I am not a ref hater. And yeah, they should absolutely have the power to identify and request that disruptive fans/parents etc. be removed. But I will never agree they should have the unilateral power to demand the removal of a tax paying citizen of that school district without the permission and agreement of a district administrator. Frankly, I am shocked if that is even enforceable legally.

Now I am curious, one of my friends is a former football ref, now retired. I am going to ask him for his understanding on this issue. But...the refs aren't just "cans of corn" pulled off of the street, they are obligated to go through training and some sort of a background check, so they have some professional chops. The people that I have known that are refs are pretty upstanding folks.

I think they are agents of the IHSSA, or whatever it is called. Perhaps the schools agree to submit to the refs authority, as assigned and/or authorized by the IHSSA?? If they do not have that authority, having to rely on the AD, or whomever, I could see that being problematic in various scenarios, as the AD's are not always even present for every contest, etc.

I think the school may be turning over "their power" by agreeing to be in the association. If the school personnel are really the ultimate authority in these situations then there is GREAT RISK that a "racist" will be ultimately be in charge when the games are out in the country, amiright? (OK, the last sentence was sarcasm.)

(Caveat - most of this ^^ is just me thinking out loud. But it seems to be a reasonable explanation to me.)

 

[Pinehawk]

I have reffed before. Was taught that you are in charge of the game from when you step on the court/field until when you leave. You are acting as an agent of the organization who assigned you.

I once saw a ref kick out a fan, and they refused to leave. After holding up the game waiting for them to leave, eventually the refs called the game off, and left. Everyone had to just pack up and leave.

 

[Hawkeye Swarm]

Some people are willing to blindly believe anything they hear these days.

I hope they get to the bottom of this and the record is made clear.

 

[HawCory]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

If Fairfield's players were repeatedly taunting the City High bench, that should be verifiable by watching the film. Same with a few of the other happenings on the court.

Forgive me if I don't take the City High parent version of events as the gospel here.

 

[RNHawk]

That is insane.

Aren’t high school refs just contract workers with zero ties or responsibility to the school district?

That is a horrible system.

Schools are apart of the state athletic association and must abide by their rules. In Arizona we work for the state athletic association (AIA). That is how officials get their jurisdiction

 

[RNHawk]

They are essentially contractors. But they are considered impartial compared to coaches it school admin. Additionally, anytime there is an ejection or incident, the ref had to fill out an incident report and submit it to the state association. If a ref seems to have more than his share of ejections or incidents, this will become known and that ref likely won't get many future opportunities let alone any post season assignments. Trust me, no association wants to have problem refs as it gives all others a bad name. Those guys usually get weeded out and/or finding themselves only getting jv level competitions or working in shitty locations.

Yep

 

[Colonoscopy]

I will start by saying there is a recognition from City High people that things got out of hand, and inappropriate things happened. I have heard that all sports teams were talked to by the coaches yesterday and today about what happened on the court, and how it was wrong, and not reflective of the values of City High.
This will be disjointed. There are lots of things that happened, and I've talked to several people who were there, and did personally hear things, but the time line is hard to figure out.
Hard fought game. Lampe is a driven kid. He and #14 rolled around on the floor for a loose ball, and the belief from the City parents is #14 struck Lampe in the face on purpose during this play. Seems like two hard nosed, effort kids. Lampe's 5th foul was committed on #14, and he immediately said something to the effect of, "I got you (So, acknowledged he fouled him), nice game". The Fairfield player said, "F you, mother effer, you effing pussy". At which point the shove happened. Honestly I can live with that, and the one game suspension he would have gotten. Everything beyond the shove was uncalled for, and he's going to have to deal with the ramifications.
I have uniformly heard that the game was poorly officiated. It was physical. The officials had not called a City High game from what several parents told me, and they did work the sophomore game before hand. That isn't always the practice, but some parents think there may have been a fatigue issue at work.
City High's coach, Brennan Swayzer, is not known as a hot head. I was told that after City's previous game to Monday night he was directly complimented by the officials that worked that game for his on court demeanor.
At various times during the game Fairfield players would turn to City's coach, and bench, after a made shot and yell out, "Yeah Boy"!!!. That was poorly received. Yeah, kids say that stuff to each other, but the optic of a multi-racial team being yelled at by white kids was grating. And, to yell that at the coach is troubling. Either a team issue, or, kids who are unaware of how something is received. Swayzer received a technical foul, and as one official did the actual work of making the call at the table, Swayzer was sitting back down when the other official came up and said while pointing his finger at Swayzer, "Sit down, Know your place". I know that's not what a lot of people would call overtly racist. I'll let you guys hash that out. I know it was received poorly by Swayzer, the assistants, and the black parents in particular.
At one point in time a City High mom was walking out of the gym during a break in action and she passed near one official and said, "This is the worst officiated game I've ever seen". I specifically asked if she stopped, faced the official, impeded the officials movement, or swore at him, and was told no on all accounts. The mom was outside of the gym for several minutes, came back in, the game resumed, then the official stopped play, and had the Fairfield AD remove the mom. He came into the stands, said she had to go, she asked why, and the AD said he didn't know, just that the ref said she had to go. This led to an amping up of the anger in the stands.
I was told the AD repeatedly apologized to the mom outside of the gym, and said she shouldn't have been ejected, but he had no choice. The ref demanded that she be removed from the property, which was refused, but led to more anger.
That seems like a poorly handled situation. The ref simply could have pulled the AD over and said, hey, keep an eye on her, that was inappropriate. Or, he could have just let it go. But, stopping the action, and making a display of removing a parent, was an escalation.
Now, a lot of parents have said things got too hot. John Bacon was there, but he was there as a parent. He has told people from what I have heard that he feels bad, and that he should have noticed things were going sideways, and stood up and told people to settle down. When the scuffle on the court broke out he did a good job taking action immediately.
To the statement I have heard that although it was accredited to Bacon, the AD, Degner, wrote it with input by others, including Bacon. There was a belief they had to be supportive of Swayzer because of an immediate push back by an assistant, and anger expressed by African American parents.
If you have questions I may or may not respond. Again, that's pretty disjointed, and I don't think I am recalling everything I was told.
I will repeat that a lot of people at City think things went sideways, shouldn't have, are sorry it did go sideways, and have taken corrective steps. It will be interesting to see if anyone at Fairfield sees a growth opportunity, or the referees take a moment to step back and examine things from a different perspective.

Within the picture you painted could be a giant nothing burger. If that's all it was... The city high release was pathetic.

 

[NI hawk]

Within the picture you painted could be a giant nothing burger. If that's all it was... The city high release was pathetic.

City High release was really pathetic.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Look, I am not a ref hater. And yeah, they should absolutely have the power to identify and request that disruptive fans/parents etc. be removed. But I will never agree they should have the unilateral power to demand the removal of a tax paying citizen of that school district without the permission and agreement of a district administrator. Frankly, I am shocked if that is even enforceable legally.

I mostly agree. But if we want more folks to WANT to be an official nowadays something has to be done. It's crazy the amount of abuse they take...

I dabbled in officiating a decade ago to make a little cash on the side...intramural softball and basketball after I retired from the AF. Lasted a year...wasn't worth it. Years earlier did little league baseball and lasted a year at that....just didn't want to deal with the abuse.....imagine it's worse now.

(full disclosure....I kind of sucked )

I was more of a "let them play" type official which probably opened me up for abuse