Agreed. Nothing against him but a penetrating, distributing, defensive pg should have been the priority.
CJ Fredrick Highlights
- Thread starter hawk_it
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Agreed. Nothing against him but a penetrating, distributing, defensive pg should have been the priority.
There was allot of guys on here saying JBO isnt a pg, even last year and Williams looks really unhappy.
Not good that the coaches were caught off guard by what distant observers were picking up.
If you had done a poll toward the end of last season, well over half of those who post on this board would have said JBo was a better PG than Gesell. JBo is a much better shooter, but otherwise, not. The bottom line is that Fran needs to find a PG (and fix some other problems), and it can't wait another year.
Look at all these studs. Basically unless you were a top 100 player out of high school you didn’t do much.
https://www.google.com/amp/host.mad...19f1123f-3691-5001-b442-bd42a8ba2080.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/host.mad...19f1123f-3691-5001-b442-bd42a8ba2080.amp.html
I'm not sure what more people thought Bohannon would be this year. He's improved across the board statistically. He's a player who is absolutely getting the most out of his physical ability.
From 2016-17 to this year, he's improved across the board. He's averaging a half-minute more of game time this year so far compared to last year. In those minutes:
- 2-point FG% improved from 32 to 39%
- 3-point FG% improved from 41.6 to 43.7%
- FT% improved from .855 to .860, and he's shooting 1 more FT per game this year than last.
- Rebounding, assist and turnover numbers are flat year over year. Almost exactly the same.
I'm not sure what more people should expect Bohannon to do. He's not going to transform into a lock-down defender and guy who just gets into the lane at will. The team has been not as good as expectations, mainly due to falling off the cliff defensively. With everyone coming back other than Jok, it was reasonable to expect at least incremental defensive improvement. Instead, Iowa has been worse on defense.
Another ball-handling guard would help Bohannon out a great deal, allow him to play fewer minutes and for Iowa to use combinations based on matchups and who is playing well. There were some people (including me) who were very worried about guard. Iowa wasn't deep at guard last year, and they lost the first-team All Big 10 guy and didn't add any perimeter players other than Conor Mc (and that wasn't even planned, he joined only when Williams left).
An Elite PG would help Frederick do what he does best .... shoot. Without one, well I trust you can figure that out.
I dont think people expect him to do more. I think people are and were aware of what his game is and is not.
The problem is the coaches apparently werent aware of it. Now hes being made to do things that are outside his area of effectiveness and taking away from what he does do well.
Its really hamstringing the team from 2 sides.
The best shooter isnt getting many open looks because hes always getting smothered and the rest of the teams isnt getting easy looks from it either.
What? Of course the coaches were aware of it. Which is why Williams didn’t leave at the end of last year.
I don't want to read another 90 posts on this kid, but I do wan to offer my support. We need guys like this. I like his game. With good penetration and ball movement guys like this can just bury another team. And we all know that we are trying to get that penetrating PG. Fran is trying to build a balanced lineup of mobile bigs, shooters, and defenders/distributors and we all see steps in that direction. Just assume best intent with Fran and be optimistic about this kid who wants to be a Hawk and wants to help us win until he shows us otherwise.
First of all, don’t think the coaches were caught unawares. They had a plan. That plan just had wrenches thrown in it’s machinery. JB-like players as PGs have worked for Iowa in the past with the right combo in the backcourt. Jeff Horner- P Pierce: each had what the other lacked. Moss isn’t the passer Pierce was, and he’s just starting to get the offensive aggression needed for that combo to work. No, it’s not perfect, but it could be functional if Moss was the leader of the backcourt offence and JB was responsible more for passing to him and keeping pressure off Moss with his shooting. Moss would take more of the defensive pressure off JB that’s causing turns. Then, other safeguards fell through in this plan. Williams left, who could function as a defensive backup for Moss and JB and give BE a defensive backcourt partner too. Then, Plan C got mono and tonsillitis and looks to get a medical redshirt. Dailey is Plan D and he’s still learning. The expectation that Moss was going to take a BIG step forward and function something like Lindsey for NW or RDM/Jok was the miscalculation. He’s taking longer to develop than anticipated.
Another wrench of course was Baer’s injury. His ability to fill in gaps could have softened some of the other blows and picked up another win or two in the fall. If MD had arrived in 2015, this all night have worked out better as well- he’s turning into a better PG backup than Williams ever was.
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Are you say Williams was the answer? He clearly was not a good pg. The coaches have swung and missed on pg's and have had no back up plan.
Williams was our best defensive player last year at guard and created timely turnovers with his great timing and reach. We are missing that defensive presence this year.
Williams was a lot better answer than the “no answer” option we were stuck with.
Williams, and even moreso Connor, would be an enormous defensive improvement for this team. How many teams can loose two backup point guards and not face major problems?
Which is why Fran is not a good coach for long-term success
Teams that have a real point guard could afford to lose two backups!
Duke has Marvin Bagley---athletic, strong, but taller. He's a one and done doing what Cook does. Cook's might be an NBA player someday, but being 6'8-6'9 he needs more perimeter skills.
Oh he's definitely performing well on the numbers front. I think the fact the Iowa coaching staff still hasn't landed a true PG in 8 seasons is the elephant in the room. I know B gives it his all on the court ... It's on the coaches (not on B) ...
Of course. We don’t fall into that category. We missed on our top targets in 2016 and ended up with Bohannon. We signed Connor in 2017. We could have pursued a 2018 but we would have had to run off Williams earlier.
Well then that got screwed up, because it obviously would have been a hell of allot better to have let him go at that point if he was indicating that he might want to.
Agree. I rarely like calling out college players. Fran and staff had to know (I'm sure they did) what Bohannon is and isn't capable of. I thought it would be hard for him to improve much and yet he has. He doesn't get any easy shots, and is really a remarkable player on the offensive end given his size and athletic ability. It is up to the coaches to surround him with additional talent to help out.
I get what your saying but JBO isnt Jeff Horner, I think Connor is allot closer there, and Moss isnt PP.
Horner was allot bigger and more physical than JBO and PP was a much better slasher than Moss, and Moss is a much better shooter, although athletically they are similar.
To me Moss is a 3 because of his lack of ballhandling and JBO is a 2.
An additional guard would make both better.
Anyone watching the games knows that although his stats are as good or better, JBo is not performing better than last year. Against better teams, there is very little flow to Iowa's offense. A big part of the problem is that opposing coaches have figured out that pressuring him nonstop is the best way to stop not only JBo, but Iowa's offensive flow. Last year, Pete required a lot more attention by opposing defenses. Moss has NOT been the replacement we had hoped for to help JBo.
Right, but the concept is relevant since Connor was thoroughly outplaying Williams in practice which lead to him leaving.
I beg to differ, CW in my opinion wouldn't be making much of a difference to the results we are seeing.
PP was leaps and bounds better than Isaiah Moss will ever dream of being.
I didn't want to say anything nice about PP....I'm gonna go throw up now.
Yes, we will benefit from the candidates we have for guard. I just feel like we're just a few missing pieces away from having the team we want. And maybe over time with attrition we will get there as our core group matures. But, in the meantime, we have got to defend, defend, defend. No team can be successful without at least a basic execution on defense. This season is a learning one, and our only hope would be to run the table in our tourney, and because of the lack of consistent improvement as a whole, we are in a dark place currently. They can help JBo if they keep moving on offense, set good screens, and run some good cuts. Fran's demeanor so far has not been one of panic, probably because Barta is giving him time to fill the gap at the 1.
Someone gets to take the shots that Jok took. It's not that surprising that his numbers have improved a little. Especially when you consider the other options at the 2 and the 3. I wouldn't be upset with Bohannon if he dribbled the ball up and chucked 40 shots a game.
Bohannon is not necessarily the problem, it is the talent (or lack thereof) surrounding him. This obsession some have with landing a “true PG” is misguided. Iowa needs an athletic, slashing guard who can get to the rim and create shots. It doesn’t matter if that player is a PG or a wing.
Bohannon isn’t the right fit at PG for this team, but Fran could just as easily address that by bringing in more athletic wings to help Bohannon out. He would be a really good PG for the right team/roster.
Bohannon isn’t the right fit at PG for this team, but Fran could just as easily address that by bringing in more athletic wings to help Bohannon out. He would be a really good PG for the right team/roster.
Fran is building a team of mobile bigs, shooters, and defenders? I could not disagree with you more on this. Cook and Bohannon have shown they can play at this level. Bohannon needs some PG help, but the kid is a lights out shooter. Garza shows tremendous potential. Kriener and Dailey may have development left. Outside of these guys you have Ellingson, Pemsl, Wagner, Baer and Moss who have little / no offensive skills and are below average defenders. Nunge is struggling to adjust to the physicality and with his physique, it may take 2 years for him to figure it out. Next year Fran adds Weiskamp, Connor, and Frederick. The athletic needle does not move with these additions and Bohannon gets little / no PG help beyond Connor being better than Ellingson.
Do you think Connor is going to fare better against smaller, quicker, more physical guards? He is going to face the exact same problem Bohannon has all season on both ends. Without a major upgrade at PG, there is no path to better next year IMO.
You are confusing the fact that Gesell had Uthoff/Jok as teammates to pass to with Gesell being a good PG. Gesell was mediocre offensive player, but yes, he did play better defense than Jbo.
Gesell didn't have to fight just to get the offense started, because he is a lot more athletic. The difference on the defensive end is night and day. While the players around Gesell were better all-round players, JBo can't feed Cook or find Moss/Ellingson in their sweet spots, because he can't lose his defender. JBo is a much better shooter. Iowa's movement away from the ball is awful, so it isn't only JBo.
What? Connor is roughly 850% better on defense than Bohannon. We’ve already seen it, and he was playing at about 70%.
Not sure how you deduced that from such limited duty, but I am not going to disagree with you that he will be an upgrade in some areas, but on the whole, what you gain in defense isn't going to offset a very limited offensive skill set. He isn't going to take anybody off the bounce and while better, will still get left in the dust by average + guards. It's a matter of lateral quickness and he doesn't have it IMO.
I am not saying he won't be a contributor, just stating that IMO, he isn't going to make enough of an impact to alter the trajectory of the team. Being better than Ellingson and Bohannon is "better", but not still not good enough to compete with the level of guards we see.
Keep in mind Fran assured us he had plenty of guys to play the point: Ellingson, Moss, etc. His lack of connection to reality has us in the position we are in. We need "much" better at PG or it won't make a difference.
I’ve seen both Connor and Jordan play about 50 times. Jordan’s defensive problems were well known before he ever got to iowa.
Again, no debate from me on that. But who is Connor going to guard at this level? Still a match up problem in man and he isn't going to drive the ball on quicker guards. Can he likely do some things? Yes. Are those things going to be enough to move us from woefully inept at the PG to big ten caliber PG? IMO, no. As a combo PG / SG with a true PG, I think you have the chance to see Connor and Bohannon at their best. If both are saddled with PG duties, I do not see a "better" future for Iowa.
again, I have no idea why you think that Connor can’t guard anyone. Because he’s a 6-5 white guy? Connor is a good athlete and tough.
Sanders last night was a good athlete. Connor can play two sports, but he is not even close athletically to the good big ten point guards. Thats not disputable
Believe it when I see it. You have seen him play more than I have, so I defer to your knowledge. In general, 6'5 white guys do not fare well against water bug PG's who are significantly quicker. He is more physical, so he won't get pushed around as much, but if he can't go north-south with the dribble, it won't matter. A big part of Iowa's offensive struggles is because we lack this dynamic currently.
