CKLV
- Thread starter JohnBasedow
- Start date
Question, what's the point of finishing the match and taking a mff next as opposed to just injury defaulting the first, then mff?
Dunno, but maybe it was like Kemerer against Edinboro last year. That was a scary moment but he was able to continue. Kemdawg wasn’t in a tournament though so had some time to recover before his next action. Flo has he video and Massa screamed out in pain and it looked bad initially.
I think the answer is simply that wrestlers are tough SOBs. There might need to be a bone sticking out or someone forcing you to quit the match while the match is going. But, if they have enough time to consult with coaches and trainers maybe he decides that it’s not worth further injury and to play it safe for March.
Finals ( 9 pm?)
Finals Matchups
125 No. 12 Taylor LaMont, UVU vs No. 7 Sean Russell, Edinboro
133 No. 9 Luke Pletcher, tOSU vs No. 13 Josh Terao, AU
141 No. 11 Yianni Diakomihalis, Cornell vs No. 12 Josh Alber, UNI
149 No. 6 Troy Heilmann, UNC vs No. 9 Justin Oliver, Cent. Mich
157 No. 12 Alec Pantaleo, UM vs No. 6 Micah Jordan, tOSU
165 No. 15 Evan Wick, UWI vs No. 4 David McFadden, VT
174 No. 1 Zahid Valencia, ASU vs No. 3 Bo Jordan, tOSU
184 No. 2 Myles Martin, tOSU vs No. 5 Domenic Abounader, UM
197 No. 1 Kollin Moore, tOSU vs No. 3 Jared Haught, VT
285 No. 2 Adam Coon, UM vs No. 4 Tanner Hall, ASU
Finals Matchups
125 No. 12 Taylor LaMont, UVU vs No. 7 Sean Russell, Edinboro
133 No. 9 Luke Pletcher, tOSU vs No. 13 Josh Terao, AU
141 No. 11 Yianni Diakomihalis, Cornell vs No. 12 Josh Alber, UNI
149 No. 6 Troy Heilmann, UNC vs No. 9 Justin Oliver, Cent. Mich
157 No. 12 Alec Pantaleo, UM vs No. 6 Micah Jordan, tOSU
165 No. 15 Evan Wick, UWI vs No. 4 David McFadden, VT
174 No. 1 Zahid Valencia, ASU vs No. 3 Bo Jordan, tOSU
184 No. 2 Myles Martin, tOSU vs No. 5 Domenic Abounader, UM
197 No. 1 Kollin Moore, tOSU vs No. 3 Jared Haught, VT
285 No. 2 Adam Coon, UM vs No. 4 Tanner Hall, ASU
Unless you are outside the U.S, you will miss it if you wait until 9:00 pm in any US timezone.
Finals are at 3:00 local time, which would be 5:00 for the Iowans and 6:00 EST.
After Ryan's guy got another crack at a wrestler he previously lost to (M. Jordan over Shields), what are the chances he allows Campbell to wrestle White in the 165 3rd place match?
If that match doesn't happen no way tOSU fans can deny Ryan ducks matches for seeds.
If that match doesn't happen no way tOSU fans can deny Ryan ducks matches for seeds.
This is the most frustrating part to me. We continually watch stud true freshman at other programs go out and beat top ranked guys while our guys have to “get bigger and stronger in the room”. Yianni beats a national runner up and is in the finals. Mark Hall wins a national title last year. Why do our former Wolrd Junior Champs have to redshirt? Especially when we have to watch our current guys get beat with little effort.
During match: Body warm, adrenaline up, in the heat of battle, mind not in a space to negotiate, fight through it. Or injury may not be well understood.
After match: Everything's cooled down, go to warm up again, "ah sh*t, this isn't going to work." Or injury better understood, and cooler heads prevail. Or injury/pain is now worse as a result of continuing the previous match, and accepted as a deal breaker.
I won't deny that it seems Ryan plays for seeds at the national tournament but I don't understand what your trying to say with this match. Campell already beat white in this tournament 3-1 and discounting the third place match they look to meet maybe two more times at the dual and big tens. So I don't see how he could hide him for seeding at nationals.
I agree. It’s even more frustrating when we see guys fight through a season full of injuries. If the guy is ready physically and good enough then put him out there. It provides flexibility later in their careers if they or the team needs it.
Ah, I see what you're getting at now, I guess I am a little slow at times. I want them to but history would say no and wait for the big ten tourney.
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I don't think it seems that Ryan plays for seeds. It's obvious that he does.
I'm not sure you've really thought this post through.
So we have Spencer Lee, who's only about 8 months out from ACL repair. His body isn't fully healed. If he does wrestle this season, it will be at Midlands at the earliest, and he may not compete this year at all. That has nothing to do with a decision to hold him out so he can get bigger and stronger. It has everything to do with avoiding further injury to his knee which could be catastrophic for him.
We have Warner at 197, where we also have Wilcke, a returning R12 guy who was a whisker away from the podium last year as a freshman. He's looking more confident and aggressive and has a great chance to AA this season. We'll also probably have Downey, a 184/197 guy who's ultra-talented, after Midlands. So we have talent in those upper weights. While Warner might make the finals or even win Nationals this season, are those extra points worth burning a year of eligibility for him when we have a great shot at AA points as it is, and we're not a factor in the team title race this year? If Spencer were 100% and had the green light from his doctors, Downey were a sure thing (I do think it's quite likely things pan out for him and the Hawks, but not a sure thing), Turk were looking like a probable AA, we were looking stronger at 133, and we thought we could make a serious run for a national team title this year, I could see taking the shirt off of Warner. However, it's not looking like that at all right now, so burning Warner's shirt seems relatively counterproductive right now. And yes, he will benefit from a year of getting bigger and stronger.
So after all of that, I really don't see why you're so frustrated, at least based on our current studs under redshirt. There are very logical reasons why they're not competing at the varsity level right now.
Like politicians in life I like a little wiggle room with my wording. I am not an insider to the program so I can not say with 100% confidence they are playing for seeding and the kid is not injured as the reason he didn't go. However, I will never argue against the responses on here that he plays for seeding. I have drove two hours to Columbus one to many times to see a kid who wrested last week magically be on the sideline for a big match I wanted to see in person.
I hear ya. That said, I think most informed fans would subscribe to the notion that, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
I can’t speak for him but I agree it doesn’t always work out and there are a lot of factors. That doesn’t make it any less frustrating to see high caliber recruits performing well as true freshmen when ours are at the Luther Open. To say that it doesn’t effect recruiting is absolutely false.
Another thing that is hard to watch is teams use redshirts to get their best guys in the lineup without having them ride the pine. It will help when you can show them examples of how you made it work in the past.
The days of automatic redshirts are over.
How did the redshirt work out for Marinelli? Still hasn't seen the mat as a starter because he is hurt. You never know what will happen in the future. The point is I hate the argument that we will be better in the future by redshirting. I agree if Spencer isn't cleared by the medical staff and he doesn't want to go then redshirt him. Warner is healthy. Beat the #2 guy and is better than Wilcke. Give this team some excitement and maybe it will rub off on the other guys.
Guys that are in the starting lineups as true fr, are those who were superstars in HS, top 5 p4p types, e.g. Yianni and Hall.
Iowa has not had recruits that fill that bill until only recently with Lee and Warner (and possibly Marinelli).
As mentioned previously, Lee has had two surgeries in past year (ACL and hernia) and needs to be 100%, before even thinking about inserting him into lineup.
Warner would be a candidate, but agree with WWDM, with Wilcke already there, it would improve things a bit, but not likely to matter in March, given our other deficiencies.
In theory, I could see starting a true fr superstar if he's healthy and we're contending for a title. I don't think that describes Iowa this year, unfortunately.
Iowa has not had recruits that fill that bill until only recently with Lee and Warner (and possibly Marinelli).
As mentioned previously, Lee has had two surgeries in past year (ACL and hernia) and needs to be 100%, before even thinking about inserting him into lineup.
Warner would be a candidate, but agree with WWDM, with Wilcke already there, it would improve things a bit, but not likely to matter in March, given our other deficiencies.
In theory, I could see starting a true fr superstar if he's healthy and we're contending for a title. I don't think that describes Iowa this year, unfortunately.
Not sure who said redshirting all of our freshmen doesn't affect recruiting. I certainly didn't. And I don't think that's our coaches' philosophy. In the past, it was more automatic for most programs, but not anymore, and I don't think our staff would hesitate to wrestle guys as true freshmen if they were ready and healthy.
I don't disagree with you, but of course, you have to have a justifiable reason to start a true freshman. Currently, we don't have such a reason.
We're a month into the season. I suspect Marinelli's redshirt year helped him a whole lot, as a matter of fact. I don't think you're really proving anything by bringing him up, as I expect him to wrestle this year when it counts, and I think he'll do very well. Sure, we can't predict the future. Marinelli could have wrestled last year and blown out his knee as a true freshman. That wouldn't have been good, either. We can second-guess and talk about hypotheticals until we're blue in the face. That's a pretty pointless endeavor.
I think you're arguing mostly with a straw man. I understand that you're frustrated that Lee and Warner aren't out there in varsity competition tearing it up, but let's be reasonable -- burning Warner's redshirt at this point would be pretty silly. Don't you think it was exciting for his teammates and fans to see him major #3 senior 2x AA Miklus? Sure, that wasn't at the Cliff Keen, but it was a legitimate match, nonetheless, and he looked great. That's exciting no matter what. Sure, we can't predict the future, but I see very little point in starting him in front of a likely AA when the advantage in team points with higher placement by Warner would have little impact on the team race.
The point is that starting a true freshman simply for the sake of starting a true freshman, or so fans can get a little extra excited, makes little sense. I have no doubt we'll be starting true freshmen who are ready and healthy, before long. We don't have a policy set in stone that says we won't. Recruits understand that. This is largely a non-issue, IMO. Given the current situation, I think having an eligible Jacob Warner several years from now is worth more than having him in the lineup this season. Also, remember that he barely beat Wilcke in the wrestle off. Sure, familiarity, yada, yada, yada, but Cash hung right with him. That speaks highly of Wilcke. Of course, it's ultimately up to him and the coaches, but I just don't see the point of burning the shirt at this juncture.
True, I didn’t mean for it to come off as me saying you said that. But I have heard people argue that it has no impact.
Maybe the coaches are more willing than their history shows and the stars haven’t aligned. Time will tell.
Wait, what? That can't be. He lost to Josh Shields and Ian Brown from Lehigh a few weeks ago.
