Close friend pleading with me to not vaccinate our baby

[Colonoscopy]

The available science does not allow to know magnitude. If that is true (which it is), why?

How is that a science question?

I'm stating that health care providers would be hearing seeing lots of it from patients, that chatter on social media and message boards would be filled with it.

The signal isn't there. We have had 100s of millions of people receive vaccines at this point. I would expect much more of a signal.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

I'm stating that health care providers would be hearing seeing lots of it from patients, that chatter on social media and message boards would be filled with it.

Um, are health care providers hearing about chronic illness from their patients? Let me know if you want me to give you a hint.

 

[Joes Place]

Um, are health care providers hearing about chronic illness from their patients?

Yes. Absolutely.

From Long Covid.

Which the vaccines have clearly demonstrated protective benefit against.
I just posted that publication for you. It has data.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

How methodological pitfalls have created widespread misunderstanding about long COVID | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

 

[Colonoscopy]

Um, are health care providers hearing about chronic illness from their patients? Let me know if you want me to give you a hint.

Again. Amount of. Amount of relative to 10s to 100s of millions of vaccines.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

From Long Covid.

Oh now we're talking about COVID apparently, lol. Did chronic illness exist pre-COVID?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Again. Amount of. Amount of relative to 10s to 100s of millions of vaccines.

How much chronic illness is there?

 

[Colonoscopy]

Well let's see Colonoscopy, how much chronic illness is there?

Tons, just like there was before the vaccine existed.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Tons, just like there was before the vaccine existed.

"The vaccine"? I'm talking about the scheduled vaccines.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Tons, just like there was before the vaccine existed.

When were pharma companies granted immunity, again? Oh yeah…1986. And didn’t that ‘immunity’ lead to a huge expansion of the childhood vaccine schedule? Why, yes. Yes it did.

Data indicates that autoimmune diseases affect approximately 50 million Americans. However, given the complexity of diagnosing these conditions, this number is likely an underestimate. Even more alarming, autoimmunity is reaching epidemic levels, with some studies estimating an increase of 3-12% annually.

Consider these statistics:

• Among test subjects, the prevalence of antinuclear antibodies (ANA), the most common biomarker of autoimmunity, nearly doubled between 1988-2012. In the same study, the prevalence of ANA among adolescents aged 12 to 19 years old increased nearly 300%.
• The prevalence of type 1 diabetes has nearly doubled in the past 40 years in the adult population. 
• Over the past 30 years, the prevalence of celiac disease in the U.S. has increased five-fold, doubling approximately every 15 years.
• The estimated number of people with multiple sclerosis worldwide increased 30% from 2013-2022.
• Between 2006 to 2021, the prevalence of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) increased 46%.

Guest Blog: A Major Health Crisis: The Alarming Rise of Autoimmune Disease - National Health Council

Guest Blog: A Major Health Crisis: The Alarming Rise of Autoimmune Disease By Molly Murray, President and CEO, Autoimmune Association Observed every March, Autoimmune Awareness Month aims to enhance awareness […]

nationalhealthcouncil.org

 

[Colonoscopy]

"The vaccine"? I'm talking about the scheduled vaccines.

When did the scheduled vaccines start?

America started experience a shit ton more chronic disease when:

A) We started living longer. (due to advancements in science/medicine like vaccines)
B) We started eating lots of processed food.
C) We stopped being as physically active as we once were
D) We started becoming much fatter than we once were.

Most of the chronic disease that we see is owed to metabolic malfunction brought on by poor lifestyle choices. That and the longer you live the more likely you are to develop chronic conditions.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

When did the scheduled vaccines start?

America started experience a shit ton more chronic disease when:

A) We started living longer. (due to advancements in science/medicine like vaccines)
B) We started eating lots of processed food.
C) We stopped being as physically active as we once were
D) We started becoming much fatter than we once were.

Most of the chronic disease that we see is owed to metabolic malfunction brought on by poor lifestyle choices. That and the longer you live the more likely you are to develop chronic conditions.

Children. 12% chronic conditions in the 80's to 54% the last data point I know about, like 6-8 years ago or so. Not sure what it's at today.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Children. 12% chronic conditions in the 80's to 54% the last data point I know about, like 6-8 years ago or so. Not sure what it's at today.

Children also suffer from poor diet and lack of exercise. Childhood obesity has risen dramatically. This is well known stuff.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

When did the scheduled vaccines start?

America started experience a shit ton more chronic disease when:

A) We started living longer. (due to advancements in science/medicine like vaccines)
B) We started eating lots of processed food.
C) We stopped being as physically active as we once were
D) We started becoming much fatter than we once were.

Most of the chronic disease that we see is owed to metabolic malfunction brought on by poor lifestyle choices. That and the longer you live the more likely you are to develop chronic conditions.

ASD alone is now possibly up to around 1 in 22 according to the data point we were just talking about earlier in the thread.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Children also suffer from poor diet and lack of exercise. Childhood obesity has risen dramatically. This is well known stuff.

Ya, exactly how much should be attributed to that (just over-eating and no exercise). I bet some of that was happening in the 80's and prior.

 

[Colonoscopy]

ASD alone is now possibly up to around 1 in 22 according to the data point we were just talking about earlier in the thread.

That's not a chronic disease condition. So I wasn't talking about it.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

That's not a chronic disease condition. So I wasn't talking about it.

ASD isn't a chronic disease?

 

[Colonoscopy]

ASD isn't a chronic disease?

No. Google it.

 

[Joes Place]

How methodological pitfalls have created widespread misunderstanding about long COVID | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

Which doesn't alter the fact that the vaccines are PROTECTIVE, whether you get mild, moderate or severe Covid.

 

[Joes Place]

Children also suffer from poor diet and lack of exercise. Childhood obesity has risen dramatically. This is well known stuff.

And exposures to PFAs have increased as well.

 

[Joes Place]

When were pharma companies granted immunity, again? Oh yeah…1986. And didn’t that ‘immunity’ lead to a huge expansion of the childhood vaccine schedule?

Thank goodness it did!!

Childhood infections from those diseases plummeted. Many disappeared.

 

[Joes Place]

Oh now we're talking about COVID apparently, lol. Did chronic illness exist pre-COVID?

Long Covid did not exist.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

No. Google it.

Me: Is ASD a chronic disease?
Google: "Yes, autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is considered a chronic condition"

 

[Joes Place]

Me: Is ASD a chronic disease?
Google: "Yes, autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is considered a chronic condition"

Which is NOT caused by vaccines.

It IS correlated with early childhood infections, though, which can be PREVENTED by vaccines.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Long Covid did not exist.

It still doesn’t.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Which is NOT caused by vaccines.

You simply can't say that, remember?

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Thank goodness it did!!

Childhood infections from those diseases plummeted. Many disappeared.

No. They plummeted from the 40’s into the 60’s.

And then we traded fevers, sniffles and bumps for a lifetime of autoimmune diseases and cancers.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

It IS correlated with early childhood infections, though, which can be PREVENTED by vaccines.

Use your common sense Joe, or stop lying.

 

[Joes Place]

It still doesn’t.

The science indicates otherwise, no matter what your Twitter bots tell you.

 

[Joes Place]

You simply can't say that

Yes; you can say that.

There is NO correlation between vaccines and autism.
There IS STRONG correlation between early childhood infections and autism.

 

[Joes Place]

No. They plummeted from the 40’s into the 60’s.

Because of vaccines.

Like the polio vaccine.

That people lined up for blocks to get for their kids.

 

[Joes Place]

Use your common sense

I'm using facts.

There is STRONG CORRELATION between early childhood infections and autism.
Those articles/publications have been posted for you here on multiple occasions.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Me: Is ASD a chronic disease?
Google: "Yes, autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is considered a chronic condition"

I thought of it more along the lines of a neurological development condition and not in the same bucket as something like diabetes.

If the definition for 'chronic' is something simple like "lifelong condition in need of treatment" then sure.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Use your common sense Joe, or stop lying.

Since Fluffer never actually posts the studies he constantly references, I looked one up.

For one, they never even considered vaccination as a cause of an ‘infection’ - it wasn’t factored in to the study at all.

And two…well I’ll just let this speak for itself. 🤣

Conclusions​

Specialized care for infections during childhood is common among individuals diagnosed with ID and/or ASD. It may be that children who are later diagnosed with ID or ASD have a higher liability to severe infections that contribute to the associations observed here but infections are not causing ID or ASD.

Childhood infections and autism spectrum disorders and/or intellectual disability: a register-based cohort study - Journal of Neurodevelopmental Disorders

Objective To explore the associations between childhood infections and subsequent diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), intellectual disability (ID), and their co-occurrence. Methods The association between specialized care for any infection, defined by ICD-codes, and later ASD or ID was...

jneurodevdisorders.biomedcentral.com

 

[Joes Place]

never actually posts the studies he constantly references

I've posted them multiple times.

Do you need them in this thread, too?

 

[Joes Place]

Since Fluffer never actually posts the studies he constantly references, I looked one up.

YOUR LINK:​

​

Conclusions​

Infections during childhood may contribute to a later diagnosis of ID and ASD.

 

[Joes Place]

never actually posts the studies he constantly references

Here's another handful (aside from YOUR link that reaches the SAME conclusion)

Association between Viral Infections and Risk of Autistic Disorder: An Overview - PMC

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a neurodevelopmental condition of the central nervous system (CNS) that presents with severe communication problems, impairment of social interactions, and stereotypic behaviours. Emerging studies indicate possible ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Infections in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Study to Explore Early Development (SEED) - PMC

Immune system abnormalities have been widely reported among children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), which may increase the risk of childhood infections. The Study to Explore Early Development (SEED) is a multisite case-control study of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Childhood infections and autism spectrum disorders and/or intellectual disability: a register-based cohort study - PMC

To explore the associations between childhood infections and subsequent diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), intellectual disability (ID), and their co-occurrence. The association between specialized care for any infection, defined by ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.abf2073

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aur.2012

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Yes; you can say that.

There is NO correlation between vaccines and autism.
There IS STRONG correlation between early childhood infections and autism.

There IS correlation. For the longest time those questioning vaccines were being told correlation doesn't equal causation. Meaning, you rabid vaccine backers conceded correlation from the very start. The increase in autism does indeed correlate with the ramp up of the schedule.

In addition, there is absolutely ZERO correlation between early childhood infections and autism since the increase in autism in no way matches the rate of childhood infections. And no, I'm convinced the vast majority are against your idea of the rate of autism remaining constant throughout history. Sorry but it's too stupid. I'd completely abandon it if I were you.

The other major problem with your position is we have all learned here that the science DOES NOT say that vaccines don't cause autism. No matter how many times Joe posts that it does, it doesn't.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

I thought of it more along the lines of a neurological development condition and not in the same bucket as something like diabetes.

If the definition for 'chronic' is something simple like "lifelong condition in need of treatment" then sure.

For as long as I've been following this it's been considered a chronic disease / condition.

 

[Colonoscopy]

For as long as I've been following this it's been considered a chronic disease / condition.

I mean it doesn't really matter ultimately, it's just a category