You’d get a few buckets with Connor’s wide open looks for 3. You could even take a few dribbles to gather yourself
Connor. What did you do???
- Thread starter Bulldogs1974
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You’d get a few buckets with Connor’s wide open looks for 3. You could even take a few dribbles to gather yourself
Then what the F are you saying? You have the audacity to call out people's basketball literacy when you are defending a player that you are admitting has a net negative impact? WTF. Few are saying he has zero value but when the negatives outweigh the positives who cares? Maybe you should take a look at your own bball literacy.
And this year isn't last 2 years when the offense was getting the ball to Luka and get out of the way.... Of course the offense will "flow better" with guys like Luka and JW out there but they are gone. Even when he was doing his post feeds the defense could sag off him and congest passing lanes for everyone else. Unfortunately now there are no posts to feed.
If you are making the argument than an offense that allows the defense to almost go 5 on 4 is going to be more effective or "flow better" that's pretty idiotic. And post entry passes are a basic fundamental that everyone should possess on a well coached team. The fact that has been such a selling point for CM is a huge indictment on Fran's fundamentally deficient program... just par for the course for a coach who produced kids with such abysmal shooting mechanics
Fran’s antics are no worse than Izzo and a host of others. I’m not a huge fan of Fran, but at least he has a pulse something Lickliter didn’t. Even though the call was total BS and the official who made it was not in position to determine hip to hip contact. Fran should have got in front of the Connor twitter incident with a suspension of some sort. Looks like it is going to end up in the BIG’s lap now for assessing some sort of penalty. Getting out front may or may not soften the consequences, but it would reflect favorably on the character of Fran. Several bad calls did not lead to the Hawk’s pitiful performance on the boards.
He got a sportsmanship award a few seasons ago, if I recall. Which amused me then and even more so now.
You guys need to watch the full game. Not just what you want to watch. Yes there’s a ton of contact through every play. It’s high level hoops. Go back and watch the game. Mccaffrey was holding onto Davis in and out of every cut. Davis flat out shoved him once to get him off.
While I appreciate Fran getting the program off life support with Lick, if the argument in favor of Fran is that he is better than Lick at this point shows Fran has reached his ceiling.
As you can see, many mericans ....Hmmm.... so he spoke the truth...
CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!
This might be the best way I've seen it put.
The best cure for that is remembering the Alford and Lickliter years.
Alford .589 at Iowa, 2 BTT championships, 1-3 NCAA record
Mccaffrey. 593 at Iowa, 0 BTT championships, 4-5 NCAA record
If Alford sucked, McCaffery = ?
Alford inherited a team coming off a Sweet 16, a regular NCAA participant on 12 years off a Regional Final. A stable program without excessive turmoil or drama.
His first BTT was a literal ****ing miracle for a bad team that still had two Davis recruits starting. Losing Big Ten records for his first four seasons, three winning conference records in 8 years. Iowa's reputation fell so far under Alford a 4th place Big Ten team, with the Big Ten's leading scorer and I think freshman of the year (could be wrong about the criminal) didn't even get an NIT invite. Alford destroyed Iowa relationship with the Iowa HS coaches and donors. The criminal players, the dramatic exits, the roster turmoil. Iowa was a laughingstock in the Big Ten, known for losing to bottom feeders. At the end he left a roster long on goons and head cases and short on talent.
In fact, the roster he left was only worsened by the roster Lick left McC. The last Sweet 16, etc.. were all 8 years down the road when Lick inherited the Gorloob, the dick Freeman (classic Alford player), etc.. Of course, Lick's years were even more disastrous.
By the time Mc arrived at Iowa we were coming off multiple consecutive 20 loss seasons. Most recruiting doors were closed to Iowa. Second year NIT. Third year NIT finals, with a great recruiting class coming in. Iowa has had 5 NCAA quals, and a virtual invite in 2020. McC has rebuilt relationships with Iowa AAU and HS coaches.
On the court the circumstances still favor McC. After only 1 year back in the post season, having lost more than 60 games in the prior three season. Compare McC's last 8 seasons with Alford's eight seasons. Has seen 5 actual and one virtual NCAA qualification, a NIT and a losing season.
Two important takeaways. One McC is a better coach than Alford or Lickliter, by far. Two, who is the "can't miss" hire that will improve Iowa's position? Are they as "can't miss" as were Alford and Lick?
In fact, the roster he left was only worsened by the roster Lick left McC. The last Sweet 16, etc.. were all 8 years down the road when Lick inherited the Gorloob, the dick Freeman (classic Alford player), etc.. Of course, Lick's years were even more disastrous.
By the time Mc arrived at Iowa we were coming off multiple consecutive 20 loss seasons. Most recruiting doors were closed to Iowa. Second year NIT. Third year NIT finals, with a great recruiting class coming in. Iowa has had 5 NCAA quals, and a virtual invite in 2020. McC has rebuilt relationships with Iowa AAU and HS coaches.
On the court the circumstances still favor McC. After only 1 year back in the post season, having lost more than 60 games in the prior three season. Compare McC's last 8 seasons with Alford's eight seasons. Has seen 5 actual and one virtual NCAA qualification, a NIT and a losing season.
Two important takeaways. One McC is a better coach than Alford or Lickliter, by far. Two, who is the "can't miss" hire that will improve Iowa's position? Are they as "can't miss" as were Alford and Lick?
Alford was there when Iowa's athletic dept also did a horrible job with basketball facilities. You'll get no argument from me that he was a complete tool and the Pierre pierce thing destroyed his reputation. Looking at sheer records though, to think there is a wide gulf between the performance of Alford and McC is disingenuous at best.
Here we are today with Connor, with his 1 PPG average in 15 games played, blasting officials and JBo is chirping with rival sports media days after a loss. That doesn't help the cause right now.
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Ah, the old “who are you going to get that’s better” argument. Stale, weak, and nonsense.
I’m sure there are coaches out there that could lead the Hawks to more than 1 win in a Big 10 tournament, or 1 Sweet 16 in 12+ years.
Fran has done a pretty good job brainwashing some fans into being afraid of change.
It would be HORRIBLE if the Big Ten suspended Connor for 5 games! What would the offense do?! At least, we wouldn't have to complain about him getting too many minutes.
My (unsolicited) assessment of all things McCaffery:
Fran: Great in developing and supporting players. Horrible in game coach that panics regularly.
Connor: Tough with low talent level
Pat: Plays like a girl
How can you be a D1 coach and have sons with the worst jumpshot in D1?
Fran: Great in developing and supporting players. Horrible in game coach that panics regularly.
Connor: Tough with low talent level
Pat: Plays like a girl
How can you be a D1 coach and have sons with the worst jumpshot in D1?
There is nothing worse than the "we probably won't find anybody better" fan attitude.
I mean chrissakes.
Yeah, there's no difference if you ignore the vastly better circumstances McC inherited. Wasn't Andrew Brommer still on the roster? Dick Schultz put a better team on the floor than Lick, and left a much better roster to his successor. So comparing just the numbers and ignoring the circumstances is not a very good methodology.
Simple question. Do you think its easier to recruit at Iowa (we're not a blue blood) coming off a Sweet 16 or a 20 loss season?
No, its called the real world. Iowa fans should be particularly sensitive to the risk of change. All the bitchers got their way when Dr. Davis was fired. They clearly did not anticipate the disaster that was to follow. However, the U administration, including the athletic department has not forgotten the disaster. Lickliter was the ****ing National coach of the Year. We were told those guys would take us to another level; which did turn out to be true in perverse sort of way. We hit depths the program had never seen.
A bad result is the usual outcome of change. That is why most important decisions contain a strong presumption in favor of a tolerable status quo. You have the luxury of just fantasizing about the greatness and glory that we could all enjoy if we just had a great coach that could recruit 5*s and win around 30 games a year. The real world decision makers do not.
I'm not brain washed. I think a better coach would win more games than McC. What I am is aware of the risk of change at this point. Having lived through the Alford and Lick years I am cognizant that "can't miss" hires that bomb outnumber those who succeed.
A bad result is the usual outcome of change. That is why most important decisions contain a strong presumption in favor of a tolerable status quo. You have the luxury of just fantasizing about the greatness and glory that we could all enjoy if we just had a great coach that could recruit 5*s and win around 30 games a year. The real world decision makers do not.
I'm not brain washed. I think a better coach would win more games than McC. What I am is aware of the risk of change at this point. Having lived through the Alford and Lick years I am cognizant that "can't miss" hires that bomb outnumber those who succeed.
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Except nobody recruited for Iowa the year of the Sweet 16. That was a huge problem. Alford came in and had to grab Rob Griffin and Joe Fermino to fill a roster after losing Range, Rucker, McCausland, Settles, and Koch. Anyone suggesting that the lame duck year was a good thing for Iowa is wrong.
I’m not saying Fran walked into a great situation or Lickliter should be praised for anything, but Fran was given a hand of: Marble (FR), Gatens (JR), Cole (SR), May (SO), McCabe (FR), Brommer and Archie (JRs). Fran brought in Basabe and Cartwright.
I’m not going to argue which roster is better walking into. Neither was good. Just pointing out a Sweet 16 run with no recruiting is pretty pointless.
I’m not saying Fran walked into a great situation or Lickliter should be praised for anything, but Fran was given a hand of: Marble (FR), Gatens (JR), Cole (SR), May (SO), McCabe (FR), Brommer and Archie (JRs). Fran brought in Basabe and Cartwright.
I’m not going to argue which roster is better walking into. Neither was good. Just pointing out a Sweet 16 run with no recruiting is pretty pointless.
I'm not sure i would use recruiting as a distinguishing characteristic for Fran given that the last time Iowa was in the top 10 of the big ten was 2012 (and yes the 2020 class was underrated, but seriously look at the effort put into the 2019 class)
My point all along wasn't so much to fire Fran or replace him with Alford, it's more to say the Alford years weren't that statistically different compared to today. That said, with all his great traits, continuity, and 25 years of coaching experience, why is Fran not able to blow away that .589 record of Alford if he is so much better?
I'd like to think his demeanor and lack of focus by his kids/team leaders has a little to do with that, as we saw this week.
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I’d guess most people would be surprised how close Dr Tom’s, Alford’s, and Fran’s records are after their third season at Iowa.
Loser mentality.
A bad result is the usual outcome of change? Bull crap.
It's funny how the cure for a bad case of the McCaffreys is to remember how much the last two guys suck (even though one wasn't that much worse) instead of winning a BT Championship, a BTT, or a few NCAA tournament games
The apathy with the program is being accelerated due to nepotism in both major programs. Fans are just done with it…. Barta really did a number.
Biggest loss was we missed out on any chance we had with nick collison when Davis was determined to be a lame duck. I believe he was too 5-10 and before Harrison Barnes highest rated recruit ever even tipping Raef La frentz. Iowa had a legitimate chance for him unlike Heinrich who was considering isu over Iowa as contenders. The rest is history collison goes to KU and help convinces Heinrich to follow who both played aau ball together.
It happens all the time. It is frustrating to watch the Iowa players standing several feet from the hoop, watching the ball come off and somehow hoping maybe one iowa player will try to rebound against 3 or 4 of the other teams players hoping to get out on a fast break. Most of the players are opposed to rebounding and the after game comments around rebounding questions are pathetic.
It has been 12 years.
Alford was not a good coach and yet he won a couple BTT (I'll take a miralce BTT over getting bounced out 1st or 2nd game for 10 straight years like Fran has).
Before Alford came, there was a missed recruiting year while Davis was in Limbo, so the Roster Alford inherited was not a sweet16 roster. He had Deano and I'm not remembering much else.. Fran inherited Gatens and Devyn marble---both ended up All B1G under FRan. So that is not an empty cupboard. No, 3 years of Lickliter did not kill the program off. This is basketball, you can turn around teams in 1 year.
No, McCAffery is not much better than Alford and Alford was run out of town. I'm fine with Alford being run out of town and I was fine with Lickliter being fired. Fran has not done that much other than be average for his peers, so I'm not getting the feeling he is ever going to get beyond last years 3rd place B1G finish, semifinals loss in BTT, and round of 32 loss. I suspect we are heading for a bottom feeder year given Fran has failed to embrace defense. Next year looks worse to me with Keegan going to NBA. We shall see how it plays out. I don't think we hae any sweet16's around the corner with Fran.
Not to be an Alford supporter, but he got zero bump from Iowa's Sweet 16 appearance. They effectively couldn't recruit all of Dr. Tom's last year due to him leaving. Alford made his own bed and showed his inexperience and insecurities cost him, but he was not left with a great situation. The returning players of note were Dean Oliver and Jaacks. Had some other guys like Luehrsman, Henderson, Galloway, but he was left with brining in Rob Griffin and Joe Fermino. They went 14-16, which was to be expected given the roster.
By the following year, they went 23-12 and won the BTT. Yes, it was a miracle run but also true they probably don't need the miracle run if Recker stays healthy. Transfers in Recker, Hogan, Reggie Evans. A good freshman recruiting class with Reiner, Sonderleiter, Worley, Scott, Boyd.
Fran and Alford both took over crappy situations. I would grant Fran's was harder as the program had cratered to vast depths under Lickliter. They both have kind of hit whatever ceiling they have and both squandered some chances to make a permanent mark on the Iowa program. Alford with the 2002 season with Recker and Evans when the team imploded, then 2006 when losing to Northwestern State as a 3 seed. Fran with the 2016 team that was ahead in the Big 10 race at 11-2, only to lose 4 in a row, get bounced by a bad Illinois team in the BTT and then fall to a 7 seed in the NCAA and get raced by Villanova. Then last year, Fran has 3 future NBA players (if you count Keeg. Murray), finishes 4th in the league, 2nd round blowout by Oregon. If Iowa gets a Big Ten regular season title or a Sweet 16 in either of those years, Fran can coach at Iowa for as long as he wants. He still probably can do so, but the fan reaction would be different.
Refs are human. I tell my 8th grade girls team all the time, as soon as you start making faces and rolling your eyes at the refs, you are going to get less calls. Refs get annoyed with people like the rest of us, and I have a feeling most of them aren't fans of the McCaffery family. For good reason.Manipulation/adjustments always take place. Haven't you ever noticed coaches working the refs for calls? Conner has worked the refs too. His won't end up so positive. They won't cheat on the calls; but, people influence their calls all the time. Often it is called "home field advantage". Glad you wanted this little lesson.
Solid summary. To expand on in game coaching, awful rotations and timeout usage. I would also add, pretty good offensive coach, but clueless when it comes to teaching defense and apparently rebounding. Just my opinion.
Had a Hs buddy played on his aau Martin brothers team and Iowa was in the mix until the day davis news about him not being retained. His dad who was his HS coach was a big dr tom fan too. Yes in the end it came down to these 2 KU and Duke.
That makes sense. I've said this before but Collison, Nate Green & Egan Hill were counselors at a bball camp I went to around 2001 & I asked him how close was he to being a Hawk. "Not" was his answer, then he said it was KU or Duke.
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