COVID-19 Thread

[jmadden1998]

Long article but here is an excerpt:

“Several studies have shown that people infected with Covid-19 tend to have [URL='https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30610-3']T cells that can target the virus, regardless of whether they have experienced symptoms. So far, so normal. But scientists have also recently discovered that some people can test negative for antibodies against Covid-19 and positive for T cells that can identify the virus. This has led to suspicions that some level of immunity against the disease might be twice as common as was previously thought.

Most bizarrely of all, when researchers tested blood samples taken years before the pandemic started, they found T cells which were specifically tailored to detect proteins on the surface of Covid-19. This suggests that some people already had a pre-existing degree of resistance against the virus before it ever infected a human. And it appears to be surprisingly prevalent: 40-60% of unexposed individuals had these cells.”
[/URL]
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19

 

[bluroptimo]

Maybe AstraZenecas vaccine could hold more value in that there’s talk of it being a multi-year vaccine. It’s different than the others in that it creates a two part reaction from the immune system (antibodies and t-cells). Bonus, they’ve already said they won’t be profiting off of the vaccine. At least not in a dollars per dose sense, I’m sure there will be plenty of rewards of sorts if they pull it off.

 

[1032004]

Interesting tweet from Tom Ryan:



If I was a teacher I probably wouldn’t want to go back either, but I do think it’s somewhat interesting that it seems more don’t want to go back than do, considering even the majority of people like grocery store workers did go back.

But moreso just surprised Ryan would call them out like this though...

 

[js8793]

Interesting tweet from Tom Ryan:

View embedded media

If I was a teacher I probably wouldn’t want to go back either, but I do think it’s somewhat interesting that it seems more don’t want to go back than do, considering even the majority of people like grocery store workers did go back.

But moreso just surprised Ryan would call them out like this though...

Grocery store workers didn’t “want” to go back. They were forced back at the prospect of losing their job. If they refused to go back, they wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment either.

Teachers don’t want to go back right now because it’s dangerous, but they will if they’re forced, just like the other “essential” workers.

Too many people look at teaching like it’s heroic or charitable. It’s a job that people do to pay for their own survival just like any other. We shouldn’t expect them to make huge sacrifices to their own safety just out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

[1032004]

Grocery store workers didn’t “want” to go back. They were forced back at the prospect of losing their job. If they refused to go back, they wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment either.

Teachers don’t want to go back right now because it’s dangerous, but they will if they’re forced, just like the other “essential” workers.

Too many people look at teaching like it’s heroic or charitable. It’s a job that people do to pay for their own survival just like any other. We shouldn’t expect them to make huge sacrifices to their own safety just out of the kindness of their hearts.

Agreed, but since most of the research seems to suggest it’s usually adults giving it to children and not the other way around, one could argue teaching especially at the younger ages may not actually be as dangerous as some of them are making it out to be, as long as they are able to minimize contact with other adults.

And even outside of grocery workers, I had several acquaintances that worked construction etc. that we’re bragging about being “essential” despite the risks involved. If teachers aren’t essential I don’t know what is.

 

[SPOONER]

Grocery store workers didn’t “want” to go back. They were forced back at the prospect of losing their job. If they refused to go back, they wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment either.

Teachers don’t want to go back right now because it’s dangerous, but they will if they’re forced, just like the other “essential” workers.

Too many people look at teaching like it’s heroic or charitable. It’s a job that people do to pay for their own survival just like any other. We shouldn’t expect them to make huge sacrifices to their own safety just out of the kindness of their hearts.

Sorry but this post is giant load of BS. These people didn’t want to work but just went because they were forced? Complete. Horse. Crap. A total insult to good, hard working people.

 

[bluroptimo]

Didn’t both the CDC and AAP come out and say schools should open? I’m not one to knock on the cockpit door and tell the pilot how to fly the plane, this doesn’t seem any different.

If we don’t trust The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Academy of Pediatricians then who should we trust?

 

[rossel 33]

Didn’t both the CDC and AAP come out and say schools should open? I’m not one to knock on the cockpit door and tell the pilot how to fly the plane, this doesn’t seem any different.

If we don’t trust The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Academy of Pediatricians then who should we trust?

What the AAP actually said was not a blanket endorsement for opening schools immediately.

It talked about the value of kids being in classrooms, but it was loaded with caveats. The AAP didn't like the way the Trump administration was taking some of their statements as full endorsements and without the caveats. They finally issued a statement to clarify.

<<
By Friday, the AAP apparently had had enough.

The AAP issued a statement about the reopening of schools that was clearly aimed at Trump and DeVos.

The statement said that only health concerns should dictate when schools reopen — not political leaders — and that threatening to withhold funding from districts that don’t fully reopen is “misguided.”>>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...-school-reopening-heres-what-aap-really-said/

 

[CurtisLoew40]

Interesting tweet from Tom Ryan:

View embedded media

If I was a teacher I probably wouldn’t want to go back either, but I do think it’s somewhat interesting that it seems more don’t want to go back than do, considering even the majority of people like grocery store workers did go back.

But moreso just surprised Ryan would call them out like this though...

Where do you see more teachers don't want to go back than do? Haven't heard that at all. The reality is most grocery store workers can't afford to just quit so they didn't.

 

[Chopper25]

Where do you see more teachers don't want to go back than do? Haven't heard that at all. The reality is most grocery store workers can't afford to just quit so they didn't.

Iowa City

 

[1032004]

Where do you see more teachers don't want to go back than do? Haven't heard that at all. The reality is most grocery store workers can't afford to just quit so they didn't.

Admittedly it’s mostly anecdotal via my perusal of social media, as well as on a Q&A conference call with my local school district.

Half of the people working at grocery stores and restaurants in my area are high school kids living with their parents - they can afford to quit if they want.

Again, I said I probably wouldn’t want to go back if I was a teacher either and I really don’t know whether schools should open or not (I do think they shouldn’t be opening “fully” though). But I’d like to think I wouldn’t be protesting it in the streets and/or writing daily diatribes about it on social media.

 

[js8793]

Sorry but this post is giant load of BS. These people didn’t want to work but just went because they were forced? Complete. Horse. Crap. A total insult to good, hard working people.

I’m one of those hard working people buddy. All of my friends work in restaurants and are terrified right now because it’s starting to spread through the staffs. It’s not that they don’t want to work because they’re lazy. They don’t want to work because it’s dangerous.

 

[SPOONER]

I’m one of those hard working people buddy. All of my friends work in restaurants and are terrified right now because it’s starting to spread through the staffs. It’s not that they don’t want to work because they’re lazy. They don’t want to work because it’s dangerous.

No one believes you. SMH

 

[TopHawk62]

I’m one of those hard working people buddy. All of my friends work in restaurants and are terrified right now because it’s starting to spread through the staffs. It’s not that they don’t want to work because they’re lazy. They don’t want to work because it’s dangerous.

I’m in construction, and as I’ve recently realized, construction workers are considerably less pussified than your average teacher / restaurant worker / HR poster. We’ve all been quite happy to continue to work through all of this. None of us are scared and none of us are sick. I can’t imagine what it must be like to go through life being this much of a coward.

 

[McCulloughd]

I’m one of those hard working people buddy. All of my friends work in restaurants and are terrified right now because it’s starting to spread through the staffs. It’s not that they don’t want to work because they’re lazy. They don’t want to work because it’s dangerous.

All of your friends work in restaurants?

 

[McCulloughd]

I’m in construction, and as I’ve recently realized, construction workers are considerably less pussified than your average teacher / restaurant worker / HR poster. We’ve all been quite happy to continue to work through all of this. None of us are scared and none of us are sick. I can’t imagine what it must be like to go through life being this much of a coward.

Wow a real man.

 

[js8793]

All of your friends work in restaurants?

The majority. A couple scattered at various things around town, but mostly service industry. I’m a recent grad and hang around the local music scene mostly. Probably a lot different social scene than most on this board.

 

[js8793]

I’m in construction, and as I’ve recently realized, construction workers are considerably less pussified than your average teacher / restaurant worker / HR poster. We’ve all been quite happy to continue to work through all of this. None of us are scared and none of us are sick. I can’t imagine what it must be like to go through life being this much of a coward.

I congratulate you on your toughness. “Toughness” is when you never stand up for yourself to your boss to demand better and safer working conditions.

Lost in this, is that the reason a lot of teachers “don’t want to go back” is that their schools don’t have the proper safety protocols in place.

 

[24 so far]

The majority. A couple scattered at various things around town, but mostly service industry. I’m a recent grad and hang around the local music scene mostly. Probably a lot different social scene than most on this board.

Translated means I'm young and dumb and don't know Jack shit about anything but I'll give you all the meaning of life and how a global pandemic should be handled because of my vast repertoire of real life experiences. LOL!

We were all young and dumb at some point, but thankfully we didn't have social media to prove it to the masses on a daily basis. Some never overcome it, I wish you well in that endeavor.

 

[24 so far]

I’m one of those hard working people buddy. All of my friends work in restaurants and are terrified right now because it’s starting to spread through the staffs. It’s not that they don’t want to work because they’re lazy. They don’t want to work because it’s dangerous.

LOL! These 20 something's don't want to work because it's "dangerous"? LOL! Do these lazy bastards drive to work, because if they do they are far more likely to suffer medical issues from a car wreck than they are from contracting COVID. You can't fix stupid, and next in line is lazy (Oh I forgot, it's dangerous! LOL!).

I'm of the age where if I contracted COVID it could potentially give me a bad outcome, but I've worked all along and nobody forced me to, nor will I starve if I don't go in. Not once have I considered it "dangerous", but then again I'm not looking for a handout. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to keep working, precautions and all. Period.

 

[js8793]

Translated means I'm young and dumb and don't know Jack shit about anything but I'll give you all the meaning of life and how a global pandemic should be handled because of my vast repertoire of real life experiences. LOL!

We were all young and dumb at some point, but thankfully we didn't have social media to prove it to the masses on a daily basis. Some never overcome it, I wish you well in that endeavor.

LOL! These 20 something's don't want to work because it's "dangerous"? LOL! Do these lazy bastards drive to work, because if they do they are far more likely to suffer medical issues from a car wreck than they are from contracting COVID. You can't fix stupid, and next in line is lazy (Oh I forgot, it's dangerous! LOL!).

I'm of the age where if I contracted COVID it could potentially give me a bad outcome, but I've worked all along and nobody forced me to, nor will I starve if I don't go in. Not once have I considered it "dangerous", but then again I'm not looking for a handout. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to keep working, precautions and all. Period.

Thank you for the double reply. I'm sorry my existence as a man in his 20s upset you so much. In the future, I might suggest a different forum such as the local nursing home or bingo facebook group if you'd like to avoid seeing posts that hurt your feelings.

As I said to the other guy, "toughness" is actually never standing up for yourself and demanding better working conditions. A "tough" guy should just bend over the desk so his boss can make more money. Similarly, a kid dealing with a bully should never stand up for himself or seek help. He should take the beatings silently. Then the bully will know how tough he is.

"I keep going to work even when I don't need or have to because I consider working to be a privilege" is not the demonstration of strength you think it is. You couldn't have said anything that made you look weaker in my eyes.

 

[dhm az]

Sorry but this post is giant load of BS. These people didn’t want to work but just went because they were forced? Complete. Horse. Crap. A total insult to good, hard working people.

Most(actually all) of his posts are.

 

[Trapper85]

LOL! These 20 something's don't want to work because it's "dangerous"? LOL! Do these lazy bastards drive to work, because if they do they are far more likely to suffer medical issues from a car wreck than they are from contracting COVID. You can't fix stupid, and next in line is lazy (Oh I forgot, it's dangerous! LOL!).

I'm of the age where if I contracted COVID it could potentially give me a bad outcome, but I've worked all along and nobody forced me to, nor will I starve if I don't go in. Not once have I considered it "dangerous", but then again I'm not looking for a handout. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to keep working, precautions and all. Period.

So anyone who might not want to go back to their work environment during a pandemic is just a lazy stupid bastard looking for a handout?? I'm also wondering, since you seem to have the stats, if you could tell me what my probability of car crash injury versus covid sickness is if I do drive to work. Want to make an informed decision, consistent with my being a 50 something.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

No one believes you. SMH

Not sure what is unbelievable here. If it is spreading thru the workers at restaurants why would other workers there not be concerned. They are bringing a plate of food to you while you are sitting there without a mask on. How would they know if anyone is infected or not?

I don't know what the situation in Iowa city is like right now, but all you need is a couple sick wait staff and one of them to get really sick or die for the word to spread and others to be concerned.

I think your statement is more unbelievable than his.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/i...orkers-are-leaving-restaurant-industry-droves

 

[SPOONER]

Not sure what is unbelievable here. If it is spreading thru the workers at restaurants why would other workers there not be concerned. They are bringing a plate of food to you while you are sitting there without a mask on. How would they know if anyone is infected or not?

I don't know what the situation in Iowa city is like right now, but all you need is a couple sick wait staff and one of them to get really sick or die for the word to spread and others to be concerned.

I think your statement is more unbelievable than his.

You’re not sure what’s unbelievable? How about the entire post? All grocery store workers are only working because they are forced to work? And you’re defending that. For Christ, Kwood. I’m embarrassed for you.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

You’re not sure what’s unbelievable? How about the entire post? All grocery store workers are only working because they are forced to work? And you’re defending that. For Christ, Kwood. I’m embarrassed for you.

No, I'm defending his post about restaurant workers that you said was unbelievable. That was the post you quoted and said was unbelievable.

If you meant the whole post......go ahead and quote both posts. You know how.

Don't make it out like I was referring to his whole post. I was pretty clear what I was referring to. I even added an article about people leaving the retaurant industry.
You could surely read and comprehend what I was saying and referring to.

 

[SPOONER]

No, I'm defending his post about restaurant workers that you said was unbelievable. That was the post you quoted and said was unbelievable.

If you meant the whole post......go ahead and quote both posts. You know how.

Don't make it out like I was referring to his whole post. I was pretty clear what I was referring to. I even added an article about people leaving the retaurant industry.
You could surely read and comprehend what I was saying and referring to.

SMH. Follow the thread.

 

[rcamp67]

No one believes you. SMH

This thread got real confusing to me. I didn’t know what the heck everyone was talking about. I never thought that I had to check to see if I had someone on ignore as I ignore almost no one. Not even eldub. I see my choice with js was a good one. Back to not seeing the juvenile nonsense.

 

[Trapper85]

You’re not sure what’s unbelievable? How about the entire post? All grocery store workers are only working because they are forced to work? And you’re defending that. For Christ, Kwood. I’m embarrassed for you.

It might have been simpler and more productive to just suggest the original post would have been better had the poster just added the word "Some" at the beginning. SOME grocery store workers.... He clarified he was not implying laziness, but rather genuine worry about personal safety. For SOME, that statement is very accurate, and non-confrontational. Debate solved?

 

[js8793]

You’re not sure what’s unbelievable? How about the entire post? All grocery store workers are only working because they are forced to work? And you’re defending that. For Christ, Kwood. I’m embarrassed for you.

You read my post in the most bad faith way possible and did not respond to my clarification, yet continue to act like what I said was unbelievable.

Is it your contention that most grocery workers would prefer to work under dangerous conditions than stay at home and collect unemployment? I would guess I know a lot more service workers than you, and all of them are frustrated with the whole situation. They’re not lazy or entitled. They just don’t want to get sick. But they also have to pay their rent.

For example, I have one friend who works at a restaurant and was collecting unemployment while they were completely shut down. When that lifted, her boss cut her hours in half and said anybody who chose not to come back would be reported so they can’t get unemployment. So, now she has to be at risk of the virus while making significantly less money than if she were able to stay home.

That’s the dynamic I’m talking about. It’s not an insult to working people. It’s a testament to their sense of self worth and desire not to be treated like dirt.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You read my post in the most bad faith way possible and did not respond to my clarification, yet continue to act like what I said was unbelievable.

Is it your contention that most grocery workers would prefer to work under dangerous conditions than stay at home and collect unemployment? I would guess I know a lot more service workers than you, and all of them are frustrated with the whole situation. They’re not lazy or entitled. They just don’t want to get sick. But they also have to pay their rent.

For example, I have one friend who works at a restaurant and was collecting unemployment while they were completely shut down. When that lifted, her boss cut her hours in half and said anybody who chose not to come back would be reported so they can’t get unemployment. So, now she has to be at risk of the virus while making significantly less money than if she were able to stay home.

That’s the dynamic I’m talking about. It’s not an insult to working people. It’s a testament to their sense of self worth and desire not to be treated like dirt.

Your premise is that COVID is dangerous. For 99.9% of those under 60 and healthy, which represents the vast majority of restaurant and grocery store employees, COVID is decidedly NOT dangerous. It is only decidedly dangerous for those who are older and in poor health, which we typically do not see working in restaurants and grocery stores. So your premise is false on its face, and therefore your conclusions must also be false.

 

[js8793]

Your premise is that COVID is dangerous. For 99.9% of those under 60 and healthy, which represents the vast majority of restaurant and grocery store employees, COVID is decidedly NOT dangerous. It is only decidedly dangerous for those who are older and in poor health, which we typically do not see working in restaurants and grocery stores. So your premise is false on its face, and therefore your conclusions must also be false.

Bad logic. The statistical improbability of a young person dying does not mean that they don't have the fear of it happening, which is what my post is talking about. There are young, healthy people who are ending up on ventilators/dying. Nobody knows if they're going to be that .1%.

There are also concerns for others. For example, I know it is unlikely I would die if I got it. However, most of my coworkers are over 50 and two are immunocompromised. They're a major reason I take the precautions I do.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Bad logic. The statistical improbability of a young person dying does not mean that they don't have the fear of it happening, which is what my post is talking about. There are young, healthy people who are ending up on ventilators/dying. Nobody knows if they're going to be that .1%.

There are also concerns for others. For example, I know it is unlikely I would die if I got it. However, most of my coworkers are over 50 and two are immunocompromised. They're a major reason I take the precautions I do.

No, no. You strongly inferred that COVID was equally dangerous for everyone when it is not. Those same 30 year old restaurant workers could die of the flu any given year. A 5 year old could die of the flu any given year. The odds of either happening is extremely low to the point where fear is unfounded. People can fear anything under the sun but it doesn't make that issue truly something to actually fear. If you can't get over your unfounded fear, find another line of work that you deem less risky.

Those that are immunocompromised should either take more precautions or if they feel the risks are too great, find another line of work. It happens all the time. People working on assembly lines get repetitive injuries and are forced at some point to change their line of work. This is not any different if you look at it objectively.

It's odd to me that the average person in their 20s is more in fear of COVID that the average person in their 50s. Why is that? Are you just smarter than us? More informed? Do we have a death wish?

 

[js8793]

No, no. You strongly inferred that COVID was equally dangerous for everyone when it is not. Those same 30 year old restaurant workers could die of the flu any given year. A 5 year old could die of the flu any given year. The odds of either happening is extremely low to the point where fear is unfounded. People can fear anything under the sun but it doesn't make that issue truly something to actually fear. If you can't get over your unfounded fear, find another line of work that you deem less risky.

Those that are immunocompromised should either take more precautions or if they feel the risks are too great, find another line of work. It happens all the time. People working on assembly lines get repetitive injuries and are forced at some point to change their line of work. This is not any different if you look at it objectively.

It's odd to me that the average person in their 20s is more in fear of COVID that the average person in their 50s. Why is that? Are you just smarter than us? More informed? Do we have a death wish?

I don't want to devolve into another pissing match on here, but you're missing the point. Whether it's safe for young people is besides the point because the chance of dying is enough to provoke serious concern. All my post did was point out that the concern exists, and that there are many who would prefer to stay home if they were still able to pay their rent. The unpredictability of how it affects you makes it doubly concerning for some. You could have no symptoms or die in a few days. It could not affect you, but kill your wife.

As for your last paragraph, I was pretty clear that my concern over the virus wasn't for myself, but for my older coworkers who would have a higher chance of complications. A lot of the confusion over the way some younger people are reacting to the virus seems to stem from the inability of older people to imagine caring about someone other than themselves.

 

[rcamp67]

I don't want to devolve into another pissing match on here, but you're missing the point. Whether it's safe for young people is besides the point because the chance of dying is enough to provoke serious concern. All my post did was point out that the concern exists, and that there are many who would prefer to stay home if they were still able to pay their rent. The unpredictability of how it affects you makes it doubly concerning for some. You could have no symptoms or die in a few days. It could not affect you, but kill your wife.

As for your last paragraph, I was pretty clear that my concern over the virus wasn't for myself, but for my older coworkers who would have a higher chance of complications. A lot of the confusion over the way some younger people are reacting to the virus seems to stem from the inability of older people to imagine caring about someone other than themselves.

Spot on. All of my experiences have told me that older people only care about themselves and are incredibly selfish. Younger people on the other hand are known for being totally selfless. (Yes I unmuted you to follow this thread)

 

[Pennstate1985]

A lot of the confusion over the way some younger people are reacting to the virus seems to stem from the inability of older people to imagine caring about someone other than themselves.

You're probably right, but I'm still wondering whether there is any chance older people simply have more experience with which to fall back upon. Maybe that is why they are less fearful. It's really hard to decide whether 50-somethings either lack empathy toward their elderly parents or have a greater knowledge of history with which to make better decisions.

I truly hope you can put aside your youthful hubris and learn from others.

 

[thom67]

Your premise is that COVID is dangerous. For 99.9% of those under 60 and healthy, which represents the vast majority of restaurant and grocery store employees, COVID is decidedly NOT dangerous. It is only decidedly dangerous for those who are older and in poor health, which we typically do not see working in restaurants and grocery stores. So your premise is false on its face, and therefore your conclusions must also be false.

That is absolutely false! I cannot believe anyone would believe Trump when he said this. Have you been around people with Covid? Yes, most younger people do fine, but it is no where near 99.9% non dangerous. But more importantly this younger people can then transmit the disease to older people and others with underlying conditions.

 

[Pennstate1985]

That is absolutely false! I cannot believe anyone would believe Trump when he said this. Have you been around people with Covid? Yes, most younger people do fine, but it is no where near 99.9% non dangerous. But more importantly this younger people can then transmit the disease to older people and others with underlying conditions.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863

 

[rcamp67]

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/23/coronavirus-covid-deaths-us-age-race-14863

How dare you bring facts to a feelings party?!?!

 

[js8793]

How dare you bring facts to a feelings party?!?!

He said non-dangerous, not fatal. Some non-fatal cases are resulting in permanent damage. Hospitalization can have life ruining financial effects. Even in the most benign cases, you still have to put your life on hold to quarantine for 2 weeks. It’s not a 2 day case of the sniffles.