Depressing..
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No need to be depressed as this shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone who's seen PSU wrestle this season. Hawks wrestled well overall but they don't have the same level of talent. Disappointed Gilman came up short by trying to execute a high risk move that wasn't necessary. Mega has some crazy flexibility. Also disappointed that Brody didn't qualify, but he ran into #1 and #2 when Thorn got upset on the front side. The other 9 wrestlers are in a position to qualify for NCAAs and there are 4 in the finals. Not bad.
Not at all. Nothing to trash there.
It is frustrating, mainly because we were right there. Gilman was one finished takedown from putting 5 in the finals for us, and Meyer had a rough outing against a guy he's beaten before and is very capable of beating again. Throw in Stoll's injury, and you have another guy who could have been in the finals. Kroells gave Coon all he could handle, and a healthy Stoll is better than Kroells.
So while it's frustrating, we were very close to tying PSU's 5 in the finals, and minus a very sub par performance by Alex and an injury to Stoll, as many as 7 in the finals and a commanding lead were both quite conceivable.
We're very close. Looking at the glass half-full, there are a lot of positives. No doubt there were some frustrations yesterday, but we're getting there, IMO.
It is frustrating, mainly because we were right there. Gilman was one finished takedown from putting 5 in the finals for us, and Meyer had a rough outing against a guy he's beaten before and is very capable of beating again. Throw in Stoll's injury, and you have another guy who could have been in the finals. Kroells gave Coon all he could handle, and a healthy Stoll is better than Kroells.
So while it's frustrating, we were very close to tying PSU's 5 in the finals, and minus a very sub par performance by Alex and an injury to Stoll, as many as 7 in the finals and a commanding lead were both quite conceivable.
We're very close. Looking at the glass half-full, there are a lot of positives. No doubt there were some frustrations yesterday, but we're getting there, IMO.
I'm talking about the big picture. We have a great shot at winning Nationals next year if a piece ir two fall into place. Got some hungry studs in the wings and in the pipeline. Sure, PSU and others will have a lot of talent. But nothing in life that's worthwhile comes without a struggle.
Savor the process. The reward will be all the sweeter when it comes.
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When i say what I'm about to say it doesnt really have anything to do with Penn State and where they are as a team its more how I look at Iowa now. I will no longer have any confidence in Iowa to over achieve as a team until they can show me they are capable. These arent the Hawk teams of old, boys. Its been a long time since we have exceeded anyones expectations. I think something needs to change coaching wise. No I dont mean anyone needs to lose their jobs but there need to be some philosophy changes. The grind it out Iowa style days are gone. I thought the scouting was seriously lacking yesterday too. At least 3 times yesterday I immediately questioned a position our coaches put the Iowa guy in and it turned out to be right. One example is the Rhoads/Welch match. Welch's best position is on top so I dont understand why Rhoads would choose down in the 3rd. Take your chances scoring a takedown on your feet instead of getting rodeout the whole 3rd.
I think we underachieved yesterday more than we were even of overachieved. A lot of those wins that looked huge in the quarters ended up not looking that great because those guys lost on the backside.
Gilman- slightly under
Clark- has a chance to overachieve today
Grothus- tough situation but instead of gaining on Thorn you let him widen the gap. In that Jordan match I never felt he had a chance to win it tho. Never close to a takedown so the only other way to win is do it on rideouts and thats never a good way to hope for a win.
Sorensen- looked good but I truly believe Retherford dominates him today
Coop- I guess you could say he did but he still has work to do today to make that win in the quarters mean anything
Rhoads- Looked great his 2nd to last match but he just has no upset potential. How is he the best we can do at that weight?
Meyer- Folded like a cheap tent in that cradle in the semis
Brooks- looked great but beat a broken McCutcheon. Needs to show something today to overachieve. Unfortunately Dudley is a terrible match up for him.
Burak- Ok he did
Stoll- Only reason he isnt in the finals is the injury but I feel like we are saying that every year about an Iowa guy. This is the first year I can remember where Penn State had injured guys too so is this a coaching thing at this point?
Another random thought: Gilman tried that stupid move in OT because he was out of gas. He either wasnt thinking clearly because of it or he did it because he knew he didnt have another minute left in him and needed to try and win it right there. Also Gilman was NOT close to finishing that shot on Megaludis. That guy can fight off a single leg for literally hours in that position. I know Iowa has had guys like Megaludis in the past and I have the same opinion on those guys, but if you want to grow wrestling then make rules to get ride of that style because it is absolute horse sh!t.
Sorry for the depressing post, but i believe Iowa will not win another title until there is a philosophy change because we will never again out recruit all of the top teams in any given year.
I think we underachieved yesterday more than we were even of overachieved. A lot of those wins that looked huge in the quarters ended up not looking that great because those guys lost on the backside.
Gilman- slightly under
Clark- has a chance to overachieve today
Grothus- tough situation but instead of gaining on Thorn you let him widen the gap. In that Jordan match I never felt he had a chance to win it tho. Never close to a takedown so the only other way to win is do it on rideouts and thats never a good way to hope for a win.
Sorensen- looked good but I truly believe Retherford dominates him today
Coop- I guess you could say he did but he still has work to do today to make that win in the quarters mean anything
Rhoads- Looked great his 2nd to last match but he just has no upset potential. How is he the best we can do at that weight?
Meyer- Folded like a cheap tent in that cradle in the semis
Brooks- looked great but beat a broken McCutcheon. Needs to show something today to overachieve. Unfortunately Dudley is a terrible match up for him.
Burak- Ok he did
Stoll- Only reason he isnt in the finals is the injury but I feel like we are saying that every year about an Iowa guy. This is the first year I can remember where Penn State had injured guys too so is this a coaching thing at this point?
Another random thought: Gilman tried that stupid move in OT because he was out of gas. He either wasnt thinking clearly because of it or he did it because he knew he didnt have another minute left in him and needed to try and win it right there. Also Gilman was NOT close to finishing that shot on Megaludis. That guy can fight off a single leg for literally hours in that position. I know Iowa has had guys like Megaludis in the past and I have the same opinion on those guys, but if you want to grow wrestling then make rules to get ride of that style because it is absolute horse sh!t.
Sorry for the depressing post, but i believe Iowa will not win another title until there is a philosophy change because we will never again out recruit all of the top teams in any given year.
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PSU is dominating. Two big ifs would have made things a lot closer. Micah Jordan and Gilman take down Gulibon and Mega. Both were close to happening. Things often aren't as good or as bad as they seem. The Hawks scored way more bonus points than I anticipated. I'm glad Gilman got to wrestle Mega yesterday. It will make beating him at Nationals easier.
Not at all! They certainly responded after the NC STate match.
In my amateur opinion Iowa is as good as they have ever been. You guys still have the tough, fanatical wrestlers that represent the Iowa style. It's just that now there are other top flights programs with wrestlers with good gas tanks. In PSU's case they just seem get/develop superstars. They seem to not have a problem turning opponents to their backs.
The holes in the lineup really kills the team's chances, but having tough one and two point wins just is not enough. With PSU's big 3 being able to pin and tech their way through a pretty respectable draw, there's just no way to keep up. I nearly threw up after Gilmans loss. I was physically sick. Mega could have went three more periods, so as the match went on, Gilman got smaller. Imar is in for a rough day. He will not be able to keep it close with Nerf.
I am going to NY, but my dreams of a title has shifted to a few individuals that will wrestle well for us. My expectations of the team wrestling out of their minds are a bit dampened.
I am going to NY, but my dreams of a title has shifted to a few individuals that will wrestle well for us. My expectations of the team wrestling out of their minds are a bit dampened.
Ok rant time..
Gilman was far from gassed!! Did everything while Meg did nothing! Piss off if you think otherwise. Thomas deserved that match.
Clark looks REAL good right now lights are on and he is ready! Conaway is a bit overrated here but could/should AA.
Grothus thanks for trying and giving us everything you have. Guilibon is a solid 141lber is will probably AA in the weakest weight class in the country.
Sorensen may not be as flashy as Retherford but these two are neck and neck.
Cooper is getting better and better I really do believe he is going to AA problem is Nolf just might be the best wrestler in the country.
Rhoads is the type of kid we all want works his tail off and does everything right. Probably could same the same for whoever psu puts out here. Wash here.
Meyer is solid and should AA but he is not really that close to Nickal.
Brooks is a ignigma at times I think he AA's at times but others not so much. Good news is I would be surprised if McCutcheon does AA.
Burak got some revenge and will AA but I don't know if he can beat McIntosh. Will be very interesting today.
Stoll is a AA type wrestler when Healthy but he not so hopefully another week of time helps him out. Same could be said for Nevils.
Honestly this tournament was won by psu with bonus pts a little bit of luck.
Gilman was far from gassed!! Did everything while Meg did nothing! Piss off if you think otherwise. Thomas deserved that match.
Clark looks REAL good right now lights are on and he is ready! Conaway is a bit overrated here but could/should AA.
Grothus thanks for trying and giving us everything you have. Guilibon is a solid 141lber is will probably AA in the weakest weight class in the country.
Sorensen may not be as flashy as Retherford but these two are neck and neck.
Cooper is getting better and better I really do believe he is going to AA problem is Nolf just might be the best wrestler in the country.
Rhoads is the type of kid we all want works his tail off and does everything right. Probably could same the same for whoever psu puts out here. Wash here.
Meyer is solid and should AA but he is not really that close to Nickal.
Brooks is a ignigma at times I think he AA's at times but others not so much. Good news is I would be surprised if McCutcheon does AA.
Burak got some revenge and will AA but I don't know if he can beat McIntosh. Will be very interesting today.
Stoll is a AA type wrestler when Healthy but he not so hopefully another week of time helps him out. Same could be said for Nevils.
Honestly this tournament was won by psu with bonus pts a little bit of luck.
The holes are still going to be there next year unfortunately. 165? 141? 197? Yes we have guys that will fill in, but certainly not AA candidates. I think our recruiting is getting better, the last 1-2 years, but look at our class from 2 years ago--not strong. But we have never addressed the holes in advance. Its almost like we wait until the first day of practice to see whats up. Doesn't work anymore. Look at 197 next year. There has to be someone in America with major skills that would jump at wrestling 197 for Iowa next year, be it a transfer or whatever.
That's what we hear every year. At some point you can't consider it luck
Hawks had a pretty good day and were only a couple things away from this being very close.
First, gulibon on being surprise of tournament. PSU always seems to have one of thes guys that is like 8 seed that gets to finals
second, Gilman failure to pull Magaludis back on the mat instead of wasting the last 25 seconds. Terrible strategy there as he had no room to finish
third, Stoll injury probably kept him from Semi finals and valuable team points
I know, everything needed to fall right for the Hawks and it didn't but we're close than 26 even with two of these three.
Grotius ending up having to wrestle two worst options for him was disappointing way for him to end. Kudos to him for working so hard to get back, but just didn't seem to be able explode after comeback. Thanks Brody
First, gulibon on being surprise of tournament. PSU always seems to have one of thes guys that is like 8 seed that gets to finals
second, Gilman failure to pull Magaludis back on the mat instead of wasting the last 25 seconds. Terrible strategy there as he had no room to finish
third, Stoll injury probably kept him from Semi finals and valuable team points
I know, everything needed to fall right for the Hawks and it didn't but we're close than 26 even with two of these three.
Grotius ending up having to wrestle two worst options for him was disappointing way for him to end. Kudos to him for working so hard to get back, but just didn't seem to be able explode after comeback. Thanks Brody
They did get a little bit of luck with Guilibon and Grothus having to wrestle #1 & #2 seeds. Stoll getting hurt is bad luck for us and good for them. Add to the fact Iowa had bonus pts taken away with no 1st rd matches for Gilman, Clark and Sorensen..
As for next year Turk at 141 will surprise a few of you expect similar year to Cooper's. Kemmerer at 157 will have a similar year as Sorensen's Frosh year. Marinelli probably gets the nod at 165 and our hole will be 174 with Paddock. Meyer moves to 184 and Brooks to 197. We will be better next year but we are NOT out of it this year it's just gonna take a little bit of luck. Bigs goes to psu but I'm not conceding NCAA just yet..
Iowa is nowhere close to as good as they have ever been. They are better than some of the other Brands coached teams and the teams at the end of Zalesky's tenure. That's about it.
This tournament was won because PSU has more horses, their margin of error is way less than ours. I agree Nolf is a phenom. Retherford, Nickal, McIntosh, Megaludis are all Champ runner up caliber guys. We don't have that fire power. Plus three of our studs have to beat three of their studs. And they have studs left over.
Pretty simple, more of their guys are better than more of our guys. Recruiting... coaching... whatever, but that is pretty hard to overcome.
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Agree. They are 25 points shy of an average Gable team and 50+ points shy of a dominant Iowa team.
It is hard to compare the conference now to what it was in the 80s. Most of the top teams this year were in other conferences then. Take out PSU, Nebraska and Rutgers and I wonder how many points Iowa scores this year.
Gilman, Sorensen and Burak would probably be conference champions. I think the team wrestled very well.
Gilman, Sorensen and Burak would probably be conference champions. I think the team wrestled very well.
Agree with all of that, Brooks could be a high AA at 197 next year, Meyer will be about the same up a weight.
Well Schwick... It's nice to arbitrarily take out teams... but it's impossible... to NOT include their presence. If God didn't create Cael Sanderson... Maybe the Hawks would have...
A couple really good things happened. 1. Early season Sammy Brooks showed up and avenged some losses.
2. Cory Clark did the same.
3. Burak and Sorensen has great tourneys, but got beat by better wrestlers.
And a couple really bad things happened.
1. Grothus drew the number 1 and then the 2 seed and went 0-2.
2. Gilman lost a close, winnable match against Mega.
3. Alex Meyer got stuck by a guy he stuck and the got beat by a guy he beat.
4. Sammy Stoll gave it his all, but the dude has one good leg to work with. No way he loses to Nebby with two good legs let alone getting majored.
Tough tourney, but it could have been much worse.
2. Cory Clark did the same.
3. Burak and Sorensen has great tourneys, but got beat by better wrestlers.
And a couple really bad things happened.
1. Grothus drew the number 1 and then the 2 seed and went 0-2.
2. Gilman lost a close, winnable match against Mega.
3. Alex Meyer got stuck by a guy he stuck and the got beat by a guy he beat.
4. Sammy Stoll gave it his all, but the dude has one good leg to work with. No way he loses to Nebby with two good legs let alone getting majored.
Tough tourney, but it could have been much worse.
Almost forgot about Edwin Cooper. He had a great tourney. Great wins over Jake Ryan and Richie Lewis. Also wrestled well in a loss to a very tough Brian Murphy. Murphy nearly upset Imar. Cooper has made me a believer. He can get himself some upsets at nationals and finish in the 5-8th range. Nice work Coop!
The third big "if" was Stoll's health. A healthy Stoll places 3rd in this thing. That adds at least 10 team points right there. Hats off to PSU for the championship, but this thing could have been right down to the wire if just a few things had gone the other way. Granted, some things could have gone better for PSU, etc. -- a bit of a waste of time to ponder hypotheticals, but the fact is that it wouldn't have taken anything dramatic for the team race to have looked very different -- just a healthy heavyweight and a couple of very close matches going in our favor.
Definitely. Was a little surprised that Murphy acted like such a punk at the end. That wasn't deserved at all by Coop. He's really kept his cool despite running into a couple of punks -- namely, Gantt and Murphy -- lately. Was good to see him competing hard and not stooping to their level.
I really enjoyed watching Coop wrestle this weekend. I think he can make some hay at nationals. Murphy is about the 3rd wrestler to slap/shove Coop during a match this year. Coop always keeps his cool and doesn't really do anything to provoke guys.
Just got home..Hawks wrestled better than I thought they would. Have to be realistic about this Penn State just has more studs at this point of time.
Was good to see that high scoring fellows at Penn State who for some reason try to tell us Hawk fans that they and inveted or developed. hmm what happens when good talent faces them scores go down. Hawks had four in finals , they had six . Hawks won 2 of 4 they won 3 of 6.
Now Gillman u can beat the megalus just have to find away to get that takedown cause all he does is wrestle defense and yes he is good at that. We have seen this for 4 years.
Clark is gonna get the job done.
Brody thanks for the effort and then have to face number one the number 2 seed . Now here is where some Luck comes in for Penn State... A wrestler named Guillbon (sp) gets to the finals and in the quarters and semis he goes 7 min in quarters and 7 mins in semis that is 14 mins of wrestling with no TDS yet wins. Penn State tells us how much offense they have.
Good Job Coop u have worked hard and keep going to work you can come out as a AA. Here is another high scoring Penn man Nolf, but Imar wrestled smarter this time and wow no tds in heck forget how many mins was made by either one but both guys where wrestling hard and won't even think about who will win next time.
Rhodres good job but start to use your quickness on your feet to your advantage. Penn State weak here.
Alex just get your head on straight have wrestle better to make AA but you can do it...Now, this Bo dude is and will be the best of these studs for Penn State. He is going to give Mark Hall something to work hard to compare,
Ok Sammy and Nathan great job by both of you. You can both wreste above your nationals seeds.
Mr. Stoll it is a dam shame what happen to you. But sh**t does happen in this tough sport. Get healed up and go for it next year. f
Ok sorry this is so long but how I look at it we need to some way just get more studs and it looks like we are going in that directions.
Good luck in New York all Hawks that are going wrestle hard,smart and you all can make AA and some of you can bring home the Gold.
Was good to see that high scoring fellows at Penn State who for some reason try to tell us Hawk fans that they and inveted or developed. hmm what happens when good talent faces them scores go down. Hawks had four in finals , they had six . Hawks won 2 of 4 they won 3 of 6.
Now Gillman u can beat the megalus just have to find away to get that takedown cause all he does is wrestle defense and yes he is good at that. We have seen this for 4 years.
Clark is gonna get the job done.
Brody thanks for the effort and then have to face number one the number 2 seed . Now here is where some Luck comes in for Penn State... A wrestler named Guillbon (sp) gets to the finals and in the quarters and semis he goes 7 min in quarters and 7 mins in semis that is 14 mins of wrestling with no TDS yet wins. Penn State tells us how much offense they have.
Good Job Coop u have worked hard and keep going to work you can come out as a AA. Here is another high scoring Penn man Nolf, but Imar wrestled smarter this time and wow no tds in heck forget how many mins was made by either one but both guys where wrestling hard and won't even think about who will win next time.
Rhodres good job but start to use your quickness on your feet to your advantage. Penn State weak here.
Alex just get your head on straight have wrestle better to make AA but you can do it...Now, this Bo dude is and will be the best of these studs for Penn State. He is going to give Mark Hall something to work hard to compare,
Ok Sammy and Nathan great job by both of you. You can both wreste above your nationals seeds.
Mr. Stoll it is a dam shame what happen to you. But sh**t does happen in this tough sport. Get healed up and go for it next year. f
Ok sorry this is so long but how I look at it we need to some way just get more studs and it looks like we are going in that directions.
Good luck in New York all Hawks that are going wrestle hard,smart and you all can make AA and some of you can bring home the Gold.
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Bold, in this sport we can only compete with the young men that want to come to Iowa and wrestle. It's a lot like all other sports. We do have a name brand for wrestling but so does Penn State and Ohio State. And they are located in the middle of the best wrestling teams in America. So when Penn State gets about every top wrestler to come and wrestle for them, that makes it hard for ever other team to compete. See Alabama in football and NC, Duke and Kentucky in basketball.We had Dan G. for many, many years and got spoiled. Just ask Iowa State and Ok. St.
Coop likes to strike up conversations during his matches. Some guys just can't handle friendly banter during their matches.
Certainly happy the Lions got lucky. I think as a program Penn State is getting close to just being better, but until the day Penn State is lucky enough to finally just be better I will have to be pleasantly satisfied with the team just being more lucky.
