Do you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior?

[LuteHawk]

Christianity has withstood the attacks of unbelievers
for 2,000 years. So this modest HROT forum and its
cabal of atheists will have no impact. In fact some of
them might actually come to faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[waterboy4582]

That's silly, and a cop out. Making an announcement that any argument against you is proof that the argument is fear-based is circular logic. Irrational.

Much of what I dislike in our society has its foundation in religion, and in irrational thinking. That's why I argue against both; I argue against religion just as I argue against Ouija boards. Not because I fear the superstitions are correct, but because I dislike the real world consequences of a willingness to believe things on bad evidence.

How have people going to church negatively affected your life?

 

[ScoutRefugee]

If there is an eternal hell that people go to after they die, then there is much good reason for fear, IMO.

I'm not any more concerned about it than I'm concerned about the 4 winds, Islam or Kahli. If anything, I'm more of an Odin kind of guy.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Americans will find out what hell is come January 20, 2017.

Not if the Electors do their job.

But they almost certainly won't. So you are probably right.

 

[cmhawks99]

That's silly, and a cop out. Making an announcement that any argument against you is proof that the argument is fear-based is circular logic. Irrational.

Much of what I dislike in our society has its foundation in religion, and in irrational thinking. That's why I argue against both; I argue against religion just as I argue against Ouija boards. Not because I fear the superstitions are correct, but because I dislike the real world consequences of a willingness to believe things on bad evidence.

FWIW worth, the less "religious" our society becomes the less rational they seem to be...I think we are slowly finding the irrational don't believe in anything accept themselves and their own selfish needs. Funny how that works. I've witnessed a whole lot of irrationality this past election and they were mostly non-believers.

The really intriguing thing about Faith is you will never, ever be able to comprehend its depth and "Truth" until you truly accept it. I was once like the above, indifferent and somewhat disdainful of its "hypocrisy" and seeming inability to "reach" people.

But interestingly enough since I have accepted Christ, I have never had more peace, been more at ease or understood things clearer. And when you get deep in a good church, one of love and servant hood, you don't find a ton of condemnation. We may not agree with your lifestyle per se, but since I am still making so many mistakes I'm not typically one to judge others. That's God's job. Now it is True I may not answer things or believe things the way you want, but my disagreement with you and encouragement to think it through doesn't make me anything other than a concerned loving child of Faith.

Probably one of the most alarming elements of the Bible is its prophecy and treatise on worldly philosophy and the worlds insistence that people of Faith are closed minded and irrational. Just like many things in life its actually the opposite of what is True. Now you may say the Bible was "Written" by men, and if true wow were they brilliant and insightful about what was to come...

Colossians 2:8...

Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Ephesians 4:14-15
So that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

1 Corinthians 3:18-19
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”

1 Corinthians 1:19-20
For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

1 Corinthians 1:27
Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.



There are literally 100's of scriptures just like this. Honestly even if you refused to believe in God if you read scripture it would at least make you attack it in a different manner.

I know a loot of brilliant people, some who do not share my Faith but those of Faith don't take a back sit to anyone. They typically process things quicker, deeper and with more clarity than those who struggle to accepted a created world.

But here is the rub, there is NOT one thing I can say that will make you believe, that would have to come from the Lord, from something inside pulling you to him. You will find anything I say foolish and God said it would be that way. So don't take any credit for your enlightenment because I too once thought like you and "boy did I think I was smart"!

A perfect example of this is how the "WORLD" judges Christians by their radicals and fringe element, but they don't judge themselves by the same criteria. It makes me chuckle

May the Lord bless you greatly this Christmas season,

Chad .

 

[cmhawks99]

Not if the Electors do their job.

But they almost certainly won't. So you are probably right.

What is their job?

 

[cmhawks99]

What I hate is that I've only ever met one person that lived a truly Christian life. ONE GUY! Maybe he's the latest resurrection of Jesus. And he's MY friend. Nana nana boo boo.

I doubt you know many nor do you understand the concept.....

Ask yourself this, did King David, did Lot, Did Abraham live a truly Christian life? I'll confess ahead of time this is a test.

 

[naturalmwa]

Natural,

Jesus did return. It was called the Resurrection.

I know you're new to this, so I'm going to forgive you this mistake. But it would be a burning offence to call the resurrection the 2nd coming in times past. Learn your own theology. I don't understand how so many can claim to believe something they don't even understand. Its like people that voted for Trump without understanding any of his policy positions. I know there are a lot of you, but I don't understand you.

 

[BrianNole09]

I know you're new to this, so I'm going to forgive you this mistake. But it would be a burning offence to call the resurrection the 2nd coming in times past. Learn your own theology. I don't understand how so many can claim to believe something they don't even understand. Its like people that voted for Trump without understanding any of his policy positions. I know there are a lot of you, but I don't understand you.

No one understands.

It's called "faith" for a reason, brah

Atheists don't understand much either, they just don't have faith.

 

[naturalmwa]

If it wasn't a concern you wouldn't have opened the thread. Why try to prove something that can't be proven? I am perfectly comfortable with you believing what you want, why would I want to try to change your mind? What would be in it for me?

I don't think you can say this with a straight face after the accusation you tossed my way. I'd say you care a good deal what others think. Probably because you have doubts and would like more validation and less challenges.

 

[naturalmwa]

You can believe what you want. Nothing can be proven. I'm fine with your beliefs but when you start to try to convince people their religious beliefs are wrong you are arguing from fear.

We can flip this around pretty easy. When you try to argue your religious beliefs are real or that my arguments make you scared, you are exhibiting fear. Of the two of us, you're the only one that thinks there even is anything to be afraid of. You might want to find a mirror, you're talking to yourself in here.

 

[naturalmwa]

That's 100% opposite of the Truth, ironically it's pretty much the ONLY religion where you don't have to do anything but accept your fallen state and your need for Salvation and then pray the sinners prayer and accept his Divinity. Thats it...the Spirit will take over after that and you will see changes in your life. You'll never be free of sin but there will be fruits of the Spirit as you grow in Faith.

That's it....

As per your above statement about coming back in "that" generation, he did.....just not how you erroneously assumed.

You don't know your theology either. Go read your book. You have been lied to.

 

[BrianNole09]

You don't know your theology either. Go read your book. You have been lied to.

I'm going to guess you voted "NO" in this poll

 

[ScoutRefugee]

I doubt you know many nor do you understand the concept.....

Ask yourself this, did King David, did Lot, Did Abraham live a truly Christian life? I'll confess ahead of time this is a test.

Spoken like one of the faux Christians that I know.

 

[cmhawks99]

You don't know your theology either. Go read your book. You have been lied to.

I've had this conservation 1000 times, never does it end up with me not knowing my Theology...

 

[cmhawks99]

Spoken like one of the faux Christians that I know.

Undoubtedly....its where I was heading...

 

[The_Joker13]

I don't agree its an objective discussion when it is one sided attempt to explain away the error. The author clearly has an objective. Even the author's closing quotation is wrong. Not one word from Jesus survives today. You have no idea how faithful the often contradictory words put on the lips of the guy reflect what he said, because he did such a crappy job actually preserving his words. Which makes sense considering he thought the world was about to end. No one was supposed to be around to read about it.

Yea well, that's just like your opinion man.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Undoubtedly....its where I was heading...

Congrats. At least you admit that you're part of the group.

 

[like-woahh]

How have people going to church negatively affected your life?

You really think it's as simple as people, "just going to church" when government officials are making policy based upon their religious beliefs.

 

[like-woahh]

No one understands.

It's called "faith" for a reason, brah

Atheists don't understand much either, they just don't have faith.

"Faith" is the gap closer of logic. This doesn't make sense... uhhhh.... FAITH!

 

[General Tso]

So long as there are things humans can't explain, I'm gong to have faith that something greater than myself, humanity, this earth is in control... and that something deserves respect.

 

[cmhawks99]

Congrats. At least you admit that you're part of the group.

As are you part of a group....we are children of God some accept it some do not. This too was said to pass, not all will believe, in fact most. The thing I always remind people is this isn't "new age" enlightenment. Some folks like to assume they have "awakened" to some new reality but in Truth the attempt to discredit the Gospel & Christ has gone on from the beginning. Its one of its most telling Truths....

 

[artradley]

As are you part of a group....we are children of God some accept it some do not.

We are not. Some accept this some do not.



Wow, I like this technique. You don't have to think things out, worry about logical consistency or explain cause and effect. So much easier!

 

[cmhawks99]

We are not. Some accept this some do not.



Wow, I like this technique. You don't have to think things out, worry about logical consistency or explain cause and effect. So much easier!

ooooohhhh those are some of favorites, you are not doing this by the way.

 

[like-woahh]

As are you part of a group....we are children of God some accept it some do not. This too was said to pass, not all will believe, in fact most. The thing I always remind people is this isn't "new age" enlightenment. Some folks like to assume they have "awakened" to some new reality but in Truth the attempt to discredit the Gospel & Christ has gone on from the beginning. Its one of its most telling Truths....

Banking on someone discrediting your fantastical story isn't exactly a stretch. It's not telling of anything other than I told a silly story and rational people will poke holes in it.

Ermergerd persercrution.

 

[strummingram]

Not one word from Jesus survives today.

I'm not endorsing ANY one, single religion with the following statement.

Yes, they have survived.


They are, in part, the basis for this entire thread. It's fine if anyone wants to believe that the carpenter from Galilee was the "only" Son Of God. And, it's fine if anyone wants to ridicule anyone else who believes that. But, the words, the message, the emphasis on love and forgiveness and to love thy neighbor as thyself, have definitely survived the ages. Now, I can easily go along with those being immortalized because of the collective will and belief of the human race, and not because of one holy guy. In fact, that is exactly what I believe. But, some people like the "one guy" story. The downside is when the organized religions show up to pit one group against the other. Kinda like politics. It's an impediment to the advancement of society, culture and the species, in general. But, human beings have got to be right, above all else.

 

[like-woahh]

I'm not endorsing ANY one, single religion with the following statement.

Yes, they have survived.


They are, in part, the basis for this entire thread. It's fine if anyone wants to believe that the carpenter from Galilee was the "only" Son Of God. And, it's fine if anyone wants to ridicule anyone else who believes that. But, the words, the message, the emphasis on love and forgiveness and to love thy neighbor as thyself, have definitely survived the ages. Now, I can easily go along with those being immortalized because of the collective will and belief of the human race, and not because of one holy guy. In fact, that is exactly what I believe. But, some people like the "one guy" story. The downside is when the organized religions show up to pit one group against the other. Kinda like politics. It's an impediment to the advancement of society, culture and the species, in general. But, human beings have got to be right, above all else.

This is kind of where I'm at. Idealogues basically ruin everything with their fanatical positions because their perception has to be the right one.

The truth generally lies somewhere in the middle, and this extends to so many things other than religion. The concept of God is more philosophical from my viewpoint, and not this hardened attachment to a judgemental supreme being.

 

[strummingram]

This is kind of where I'm at. Idealogues basically ruin everything with their fanatical positions because their perception has to be the right one.

The truth generally lies somewhere in the middle, and this extends to so many things other than religion. The concept of God is more philosophical from my viewpoint, and not this hardened attachment to a judgemental supreme being.

We're ALL supreme beings. I believe we're all like the cells in the "body of God." And, we all make up God. God doesn't judge or condemn or reward... unless WE do. It's all a choice... free will. Our feelings and thoughts stem from two root sources- Fear and Love.

 

[artradley]

I'm not endorsing ANY one, single religion with the following statement.

Yes, they have survived.

I think you may have misunderstood Natural's point. It is simply an historical fact that Jesus' words were not transcribed at the time, and he left nothing in writing. The accounts of him and his words were written, at the earliest, a couple of decades after his left. We have what people claim he said, but that is not the same as having his actual words. People who express "faith in Jesus" are really expressing faith in the people who told us who he was and what he was about.

 

[like-woahh]

We're ALL supreme beings. I believe we're all like the cells in the "body of God." And, we all make up God. God doesn't judge or condemn or reward... unless WE do. It's all a choice... free will. Our feelings and thoughts stem from two root sources- Fear and Love.

 

[cmhawks99]

Banking on someone discrediting your fantastical story isn't exactly a stretch. It's not telling of anything other than I told a silly story and rational people will poke holes in it.

Ermergerd persercrution.

Well yes I understand and that seems plausible, but I know for an older, deeper, more, historical reason than that. It's because it's been happening for several thousand years and yet here we are still talking about it.....let that sink in for a few minutes.

For anyone interested you should Google Napoleons treatise on Jesus Christ and his divinity, now it's never been guaranteed to have come from Napoleon but it fits with his language and many a historian believes that it was him. Nonetheless it is truly brilliant prose....

I'll leave you with this....I used to debate this deeply & hotly but with age and wisdom comes the knowledge that although I am called to be capable of defending my Faith, there are some mediums that are pointless, if not damaging to do so. A message board filled with people who love to debate, disparage and then pound their chest about how they destroyed another "Christian" is an effort in futility.

There's a couple things of note, I'll leave you with this Christmas season. Smarter people than you and I, and I do mean brilliant people, scientists, mathematicians, aeronautical engineers, etc. etc. believe in Jesus Christ so you're not on the cutting edge of intelligence. I know many need to believe that but they aren't...

Furthermore people have been trying to destroy this Faith for thousands of years. Many times people have discredited the historicity of events, places, & peoples in the Bible only to have the evidence dug up later. These arguments you have, they aren't new, they have been around for thousands of years, there's plenty of evidence out there if you want to look. And a lot of brilliant people started where you are and after searching and seeing came to Faith...

Merry Christmas fellas, I hope you find what you are looking for.

Chad McCleary

 

[like-woahh]

Well yes I understand and that seems plausible, but I know for an older, deeper, more, historical reason than that. It's because it's been happening for several thousand years and yet here we are still talking about it.....let that sink in for a few minutes.

For anyone interested you should Google Napoleons treatise on Jesus Christ and his divinity, now it's never been guaranteed to have come from Napoleon but it fits with his language and many a historian believes that it was him. Nonetheless it is truly brilliant prose....

I'll leave you with this....I used to debate this deeply & hotly but with age and wisdom comes the knowledge that although I am called to be capable of defending my Faith, there are some mediums that are pointless, if not damaging to do so. A message board filled with people who love to debate, disparage and then pound their chest about how they destroyed another "Christian" is an effort in futility.

There's a couple things of note, I'll leave you with this Christmas season. Smarter people than you and I, and I do mean brilliant people, scientists, mathematicians, aeronautical engineers, etc. etc. believe in Jesus Christ so you're not on the cutting edge of intelligence. I know many need to believe that but they aren't...

Furthermore people have been trying to destroy this Faith for thousands of years. Many times people have discredited the historicity of events, places, & peoples in the Bible only to have the evidence dug up later. These arguments you have, they aren't new, they have been around for thousands of years, there's plenty of evidence out there if you want to look. And a lot of brilliant people started where you are and after searching and seeing came to Faith...

Merry Christmas fellas, I hope you find what you are looking for.

Chad McCleary

Here's the thing, you can apply that to every other major religion. The Christian Persecution Complex as a source of validation is one of the most obnoxious ideas ever.

 

[Ollie4ISU]

Blessed are the cheesemakers.....

 

[naturalmwa]

You're confused. Let me clear it up for you. He was talking about his years, not ours.

After being crucified and using his alien technology to resuscitate himself, he still needed significant medical attention to fully recover. That attention exceeded the capacity of the medical robots on his scout ship so they had to put him in suspended animation and take him home for the care he needed.

At relativistic speeds the round trip for him will be 40 years, but for us it will be 2000 years, give or take. So he'll be back sometime in the next 20 years.

I wonder what he'll think about what we've done to the place?

That doesn't fit the text either, but it is the sort of thing I might expect a believer to cling to. With this sort of creativity you should open a mega church

 

[strummingram]

I think you may have misunderstood Natural's point. It is simply an historical fact that Jesus' words were not transcribed at the time, and he left nothing in writing. The accounts of him and his words were written, at the earliest, a couple of decades after his left. We have what people claim he said, but that is not the same as having his actual words. People who express "faith in Jesus" are really expressing faith in the people who told us who he was and what he was about.

Ahhh, yes, okay. That's a good clarification.

I agree that, very often, people simply accept what they're being told instead of believing what they "feel to be true", so to speak.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

I'm not really concerned about organized religion, to be honest. There are enough real concerns in my day to day life. If any of you guys actually run into Jesus, in physical form, shoot me a PM. I'd like to take the SOB to task for a few things. Point him in the right direction to get a few problems straightened out around here, if ya know what I mean?

 

[naturalmwa]

If there is an eternal hell that people go to after they die, then there is much good reason for fear, IMO.

Perfect illustration of why it's so successful. It's hard to get people to act logically when just their political concerns are in play. How are they going to act when you toss in an eternity of burning? You found the trigger to turn the brain off. Then you congratulate those who manage to stop thinking.

 

[naturalmwa]

No one understands.

It's called "faith" for a reason, brah

Atheists don't understand much either, they just don't have faith.

True, i don't understand faith either. It's such a ludicrous notion to me that you would believe things without evidance and even be proud that you managed this mental delusion. I would be embarrassed to have faith.

 

[naturalmwa]

As are you part of a group....we are children of God some accept it some do not. This too was said to pass, not all will believe, in fact most. The thing I always remind people is this isn't "new age" enlightenment. Some folks like to assume they have "awakened" to some new reality but in Truth the attempt to discredit the Gospel & Christ has gone on from the beginning. Its one of its most telling Truths....

What truth do you think that proves? Certainly not the truth of the belief system. If people attacking and discrediting a religion makes it true, you're in big trouble.

 

[BrianNole09]

True, i don't understand faith either. It's such a ludicrous notion to me that you would believe things without evidance and even be proud that you managed this mental delusion. I would be embarrassed to have faith.

You have faith, too. You have faith that something (the Universe) can come from nothing. You have faith that man is the sole master of the Universe and that there are no objective human values. You have faith that there is no life after death. Etc., etc.