Does Fran struggle at developing talent?

[HawkRugged17]

So most of the guys Fran recruits either don't work hard enough despite him saying he only recruits guys he knows will work hard for him or they are guys that reach their peak their SR of high school which makes me wonder why Fran recruits so many of these guys. And on top of alll of that Fran chooses to play these guys that dont work hard and may have reached their peak back in high school more then other guys on the roster who may or may not be working harder.

Nice parsing. My only point is, some guys work on their game, but don't get better. Or they don't get good enough for the results to show in games. For instance, if Woody worked on a jump hook in the off season, it may not have gotten to the point where it improved enough for him to use it in a game. He did work on free throw shooting and that improved. Imagine that!

Now, do you really think Fran is going to say 'well, I know this guy won't work as hard as we want, but he's good enough anyway'. Stuff happens when kids get to college and some may not be able to make the improvements needed to make the jump to the next level. Should Fran try some other options? Maybe he tried in practice and the results were not good. Who knows?

I think Fran is guilty of playing guys who have proven they can't get the best shot at the end of the game. But, he believes in his players and thinks they can do it the next time. Like I said, some will say loyalty and some will say being stubborn (which is what I think Fran is).

 

[Auger]

Do I think Woody improved from his freshman year to his senior year? Yes. It doesn't really show in his stats tho, other than basically doubling his rebounding stats. Which at 7'1 I would imagine your stats should go up as you learn the college game and grow more into your body. I looked at 3 previous big men who came to Iowa in my lifetime. Les Jepsen, Brad Lohaus and Acie Earl. Their first significant year of production were as follows (I say that because Jepsen didn't play significant minutes until his junior year and Lohaus until his sophomore year where Earl and Woodbury played significant minutes their freshman years)

Jepsen (Jr yr) 4.2 ppg 5 rpg
Lohaus (Soph yr) 6.8 ppg 5 rpg
Earl (Fr yr) 6.2 ppg 3.5 rpg
Woodbury (Fr yr) 4.9 ppg 4.8 rpg

Their respective Senior Year stats
Jepsen 15 ppg 10 rpg
Lohaus 11 ppg 8 rpg
Earl 17 ppg 9 rpg
Woodbury 7.5 ppg 8 rpg

Jepsen and Earl had dramatic jumps in both scoring and rebounding while Lohaus improved a good deal in both. Though again, Woody did improve his rebounding a good deal from Freshman to Senior year. As I said in my earlier post, had Woody come in with the same fanfare as the previous three then his career would be looked at with a great deal of appreciation. Instead it was a nice career. A lot of wins but one is left to wonder how many more wins would there be had he had the improvements of his predecessors. Just a few thoughts.

Remember a lot of those players. They all improved on areas that they struggled at in their careers hence why they became great scorers and Iowa big men.

If Woody came to Iowa as a 2 or 3 star recruit and had the improvements he did then many would be greatful he gave Iowa what he did his SR year. Many lesser known C's in Iowa's history had similar paths and were great backups and 1 year starters. However Woody was a highly recruited prospect that even UNC wanted and a multi year starter who progressed like he was a two star recruit. I actually like Woody and never really expected lottery draft pick skills from him but did however expect him to develope skills that would make him a scorer from both sides of the hoop though in his 4 years here. One thing people forget is he actually did well in AAU ball against other highly rated big men and that was the reason he was highly recruited. However many of those big men continued to progress in college at a faster rate then Woody.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Marble went from an after thought in high school, whose best offer was from a really bad Iowa team a that time, that contributed very little as a freshman to a 1st team All-B1G player by his senior year. I suppose it's fair to argue that he and his dad may have had as much to do with his development as Fran and his staff.

I disagree about May and Basabe not developing offensively. By Basabe's senior year he could step out 15-18 feet and nail that jumper at a very high rate. That was not in his repertoire his 1st 2 seasons. And May was a much better shooter by his senior year and most importantly finally leaned to play under control. So many of those alley oops he missed his 1st 3 years doing some acrobatic dunk he had the savvy to just lay in if he couldn't throw down the dunk.

I do agree that Gessel regressed offensively from frosh to senior year. His FT % went down every year and that elbow jumper he never missed in high school he almost never made in college.
But opposite of that when you look at what horrible FT shooters both Olaseni and Woodbury were as freshmen (about 50%) and that both as seniors were about 80% that definitely shows an ability to develop players.

While I agree with you on this post, the one thing I will mention is the FT improvement/regression. Sometimes, the coaches help to improve that in a player through a structural change. And sometimes, the player just works hard themselves to improve as well (because it was a mental thing). Again, your point with Gesell getting worse (maybe due to injury or something mental) also shows that. I am sure the coaching staff attempted to address it, but the results are not always there.

 

[Auger]

Nice parsing. My only point is, some guys work on their game, but don't get better. Or they don't get good enough for the results to show in games. For instance, if Woody worked on a jump hook in the off season, it may not have gotten to the point where it improved enough for him to use it in a game. He did work on free throw shooting and that improved. Imagine that!

Now, do you really think Fran is going to say 'well, I know this guy won't work as hard as we want, but he's good enough anyway'. Stuff happens when kids get to college and some may not be able to make the improvements needed to make the jump to the next level. Should Fran try some other options? Maybe he tried in practice and the results were not good. Who knows?

I think Fran is guilty of playing guys who have proven they can't get the best shot at the end of the game. But, he believes in his players and thinks they can do it the next time. Like I said, some will say loyalty and some will say being stubborn (which is what I think Fran is).

So there are a lot of coaches in college ball that recruit similar players and similarly skilled players that Iowa gets who are better at developing or I will say get more from those players during their four years then what Iowa gets from there's. If Fran isnt as good of a developer as those coaches then fine but he has to recruit better than those coaches then agree? I will agree with most on here and say Fran does a good job at finding the diamond in the rough type recruits but like ive been saying you have to develope the role players skills and you cant just depend on the diamond in the rough guys to do all the scoring. Every year its the same thing we have 2-3 guys that do all the scoring but as soon as the scouting report is out we start to struggle.

 

[HawkRugged17]

So there are a lot of coaches in college ball that recruit similar players and similarly skilled players that Iowa gets who are better at developing or I will say get more from those players during their four years then what Iowa gets from there's. If Fran isnt as good of a developer as those coaches then fine but he has to recruit better than those coaches then agree? I will agree with most on here and say Fran does a good job at finding the diamond in the rough type recruits but like ive been saying you have to develope the role players skills and you cant just depend on the diamond in the rough guys to do all the scoring. Every year its the same thing we have 2-3 guys that do all the scoring but as soon as the scouting report is out we start to struggle.

My point is that the development of players is a two sided coin. As someone else mentioned, every coach has hits and misses on recruits and then hits and misses on player development. But to put the entire responsibility of player improvement on the coach is short sighted.

Is a student's development entirely on the teachers they have? Partially, yes, but at some point, the student has to take the responsibility of their education on themselves regardless of the teaching they receive. I believe it is the same with athletes.

 

[Auger]

My point is that the development of players is a two sided coin. As someone else mentioned, every coach has hits and misses on recruits and then hits and misses on player development. But to put the entire responsibility of player improvement on the coach is short sighted.

Is a student's development entirely on the teachers they have? Partially, yes, but at some point, the student has to take the responsibility of their education on themselves regardless of the teaching they receive. I believe it is the same with athletes.

Never my intention to put this all on Fran. I stated so I believe in the OP. However after six seasons it seems many of the players fail to develope areas of their game that were weak when they first came in. At that point you look at is it just a bunch of avg recruits that have hit their peak and can't advance or is it something the coaching staff needs to look at in how the are developing their players. Which brings me to what my question was. Does Fran and his staff struggle at developing their players. My question was never a statement like Fran and his staff absolutely can not develope any of their players. And I understand many on here get angry as soon as anyone questions the coaching staff and thats what they hear but my question it is a legit question that has some history to support the question.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Common denominator is that Fran's best players have been his most athletic. Marble, White, Olaseni, Uthoff, Jok. Gesell also a tremendous athlete, just not a gifted shooter. So you can credit Fran for their 'development', but no accident these players were also tremendous athletes, which makes coaching a lot easier.

 

[33hawkfan]

I see people on here saying May, Oglesby, Gesell, Clemmons and so on improved their offesne under Fran but where, how? Where do you find any proof in saying that? Most all of these guys were either the same shooters they were their freshman year or worse by the time they were SR's. Most of them couldnt even improve their FT shooting let alone from inside the arch. They never. Go look at the guys Davis had and look at the progress they have made throughout their careers even the role players. Look at Bo Ryan recruits over the past 10 years as well.

Wait so does this mean Woody did or didn't develop because he went from shooting 48% from the floor and 51% from the line as a freshman to 55/70% this year? I thought we were saying he didn't develop at all.

 

[33hawkfan]

Common denominator is that Fran's best players have been his most athletic. Marble, White, Olaseni, Uthoff, Jok. Gesell also a tremendous athlete, just not a gifted shooter. So you can credit Fran for their 'development', but no accident these players were also tremendous athletes, which makes coaching a lot easier.

What a shocking hypothesis here, that the best players are usually good athletes. So we're saying these guys only developed so much because they were good athletes, except in cases like Gesell and Clemmons where they didn't, in which case then it's all on Fran.

 

[DenverTurtle]

I agree. However even being able to get all those other guys to develope a little more on offense and get them to make adjustments during the B1G season would be the difference between Wisconsin and us. We have too many holes around our stars that dreaming of Elite 8's, Final Fours, and even Sweet 16's seems like a pipe dream.

I disagree that the Sweet 16 is a pipe dream. The Hawks have made 2 straight rounds of 32. Win just one more game and they're in the Sweet 16. Avoid a 7-10 seed and you don't have to knock off a 1 or 2 seed in the 2nd round to make that Sweet 16. In my opinion that isn't too much further to go for this program.

 

[hawkfan1963]

I think Fran can develope talent physically. It's the mental part of the game that eludes him. Lets face it, the Iowa and Wisconsin programs mirror each other. They basically get the same types of players, but Wisconsin can create a mental toughness in players that eludes Iowa. This mental toughness makes up for some physical shortcomings and in some cases make a player play better than they should be able too. That's what Iowa needs. You can see this toughness and don't give up attitude in Baer and Wagner and Jok and probably a few others. You can see it in them but at times it disappears. Fran needs to get this toughness to surface in all the players he gets and when it begins to disappear bring it back out in the players within the same game. When he does that IOWA will become very competitive. And as they become competitive they will continually upgrade the quality of players they get.

 

[Kurt Warner]

It may be that some players hit their ceiling earlier in their playing days than others. And some have a higher ceiling to become better players in the first place. Just a thought

 

[Ihawkhoops]

What a shocking hypothesis here, that the best players are usually good athletes. So we're saying these guys only developed so much because they were good athletes, except in cases like Gesell and Clemmons where they didn't, in which case then it's all on Fran.

No. My point is that when you recruit marginal athletes, expect marginal results. White had hops, could run, dunk and board because of his athleticism. Fran helped develop him, but if White had McCabe's athleticism, he would have been a non-factor as McCabe was. Olaseni could play above the rim. Woodbury could not, thus Olaseni could do more from day one because of his athleticism. Let me simplify it: LeBron James is not who he is because some coach really developed his game along the way.

 

[DenverTurtle]

I may get ripped for this but out of Uthoff, White, Gabe, Marble and Jok I can only see that Marble and Gabe developed anything new on offense to help their offensive game. Uthoff, White and Jok never expanded their games they in part just became the focal point of the offense and got more shots. White was also a guy that went to the gym ever night and shot over a 100 shots on his own trying to improve his shooting. White also game in his FR year and showed the same skill sets he ended up leaving with. Uthoff was already a known talent coming in. Jok was already a known shooter but its not like he has developed anything new other than his shots are falling. So though Fran deserves credit for these guys other than Gabe and somewhat Marble its not like it was from rags to riches for these guys as far as development.

I thought Jok developed an ability to finish at the rim by the end of this season. His 1st 2 years at Iowa and even the 1st half of this last season he didn't really finish at the rim or even try very often to take it there.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I think Fran can develope talent physically. It's the mental part of the game that eludes him. Lets face it, the Iowa and Wisconsin programs mirror each other. They basically get the same types of players, but Wisconsin can create a mental toughness in players that eludes Iowa. This mental toughness makes up for some physical shortcomings and in some cases make a player play better than they should be able too. That's what Iowa needs. You can see this toughness and don't give up attitude in Baer and Wagner and Jok and probably a few others. You can see it in them but at times it disappears. Fran needs to get this toughness to surface in all the players he gets and when it begins to disappear bring it back out in the players within the same game. When he does that IOWA will become very competitive. And as they become competitive they will continually upgrade the quality of players they get.

Good post, but prepared to get blasted by the "Nothing is ever Fran's fault' and 'remember how bad it was under Lickliter' crowd. Fran is not responsible for an

I disagree that the Sweet 16 is a pipe dream. The Hawks have made 2 straight rounds of 32. Win just one more game and they're in the Sweet 16. Avoid a 7-10 seed and you don't have to knock off a 1 or 2 seed in the 2nd round to make that Sweet 16. In my opinion that isn't too much further to go for this program.

I liken this scenario to me hooking up with Jennifer Aniston. If there were only two men left on earth; me and Michael Moore, I suspect my odds would improve exponentially. Short of some apocalyptic turn of events, I stand no chance in the real world. I would liken Iowa's chances of appearing in the Sweet 16 to my story above. We won't be good enough not to be a 7-10 seed, which ensures a match up with a good team. My ten year goal is to make it to half trailing by less than 20 in a second round game. Small steps as they say. If we see a Sweet 16, Fran won't be the coach.

 

[33hawkfan]

#Hawkeyechondriac

Think carefully.

4-14, 8-10, 9-9, 9-9,12-6,12-6

Yet in those six years McCaffery has:

Been a poor recruiter, just look at the rankings.
Can't game coach, just look at all the close losses.
Can't develop, just...believe it!

Doodoocaca.

We've got us a good coach and staff. Some should go root for Minnesota, or Nebraska, or Illinois. Go enjoy conversations about players pulling knives on bouncers, or doing a Godzilla act on a small French town. Or posting homemade porn. Or just losing lots of games!!!

Questioning development isn't fair criticism...it's a lot of things and none of them good at all.

It is pretty amazing, he brings in marginal recruits, doesn't develop them, can't coach in games and yet somehow we've went 24-12 in the B10 the last two years. Quite the magic formula he's discovered.

 

[DenverTurtle]

Ogelsby is really the only one that didn't improve. Maybe that was just an athletic thing. Again that's recruiting. May could barely dribble or pass as a freshman. Was May even a Fran recruit? Woody improved a ton but the bashers don't want to see it. Hard to develop a post game when no one actually throws you the ball in the post. Not sure if this is a Fran philosophy or weaknesses of Gesell and Clemmons. Mike improved his offensive game in every area except outside shooting. I really think he's just an anomaly with the outside shooting. Maybe his elbow really got jacked up. Who knows but it's just not normal that guy's become worse shooters as their careers go on.

Fran must not focus or even teach a proper bounce pass because his team's have been horrendous at feeding the post. I agree that it's hard for Woody to make post moves if he can't get the ball on he post.

I've said this before, but they need to pay Dr Tom a consulting fee to come in for a week and teach these guys how to feed the post.

I attended several of his Hawkeye basketball camps as a kid and I remember him teaching drills where he would actually have the passer roll the ball on the ground into the post. He did this to teach you how low you had to keep the ball on the pass. Common sense in basketball, on defense it's much easier to steal a ball waist height than to get your hand all the way to the floor.

 

[Hawk40forever]

It is pretty amazing, he brings in marginal recruits, doesn't develop them, can't coach in games and yet somehow we've went 24-12 in the B10 the last two years. Quite the magic formula he's discovered.

Well that magic formula must run out when the calendar flips to February because two of the last three years the Hawks have finished no better than .500 in their last ten, including 3-7 in 2013-2014, and have lost the first game of the big ten tourney each of the last three years. The NCAA tourney hasn't yielding great results either. Losing in the play in game in 2014 and getting trounced in the second game the last two years.

Maybe this is just what Iowa Basketball is. Lord knows Dr Tom was synonymous with winning the first round game and losing in the second round. Don't think Alford did much better and Lickliter....sheesh. I think this year's team super charged Fran's "magic formula" as you put it for a month or so there to start the Big Ten season and then it ran as dry as the Sahara Desert. Let's hope the newbies can breath new life into the program starting next year.

 

[Hawk40forever]

Good post, but prepared to get blasted by the "Nothing is ever Fran's fault' and 'remember how bad it was under Lickliter' crowd. Fran is not responsible for an


I liken this scenario to me hooking up with Jennifer Aniston. If there were only two men left on earth; me and Michael Moore, I suspect my odds would improve exponentially. Short of some apocalyptic turn of events, I stand no chance in the real world. I would liken Iowa's chances of appearing in the Sweet 16 to my story above. We won't be good enough not to be a 7-10 seed, which ensures a match up with a good team. My ten year goal is to make it to half trailing by less than 20 in a second round game. Small steps as they say. If we see a Sweet 16, Fran won't be the coach.

I would have to disagree with your comparison there sir. If the Hawks don't crap their pants against OSU, PSU and ILL down the stretch, chances are their seeding for the NCAA tourney would have been higher. How much higher? Who knows. Probably a 5 seed, which would have given us a much better shot at the second weekend. At least a better shot at not getting housed in the second round. I believe Fran will get us there. Beyond that is another story for another time. Be optimistic fellow Hawkeyes!

 

[DenverTurtle]

Good post, but prepared to get blasted by the "Nothing is ever Fran's fault' and 'remember how bad it was under Lickliter' crowd. Fran is not responsible for an


I liken this scenario to me hooking up with Jennifer Aniston. If there were only two men left on earth; me and Michael Moore, I suspect my odds would improve exponentially. Short of some apocalyptic turn of events, I stand no chance in the real world. I would liken Iowa's chances of appearing in the Sweet 16 to my story above. We won't be good enough not to be a 7-10 seed, which ensures a match up with a good team. My ten year goal is to make it to half trailing by less than 20 in a second round game. Small steps as they say. If we see a Sweet 16, Fran won't be the coach.

Strongly disagree. If Iowa beats Penn State in Happy Valley, Ohio State or Wisconsin they are a 6 seed or better. If they don't lose to Illinois in the BTT they are a 6 or better seed. That is VERY close.

 

[33hawkfan]

Well that magic formula must run out when the calendar flips to February because two of the last three years the Hawks have finished no better than .500 in their last ten, including 3-7 in 2013-2014, and have lost the first game of the big ten tourney each of the last three years. The NCAA tourney hasn't yielding great results either. Losing in the play in game in 2014 and getting trounced in the second game the last two years.

Maybe this is just what Iowa Basketball is. Lord knows Dr Tom was synonymous with winning the first round game and losing in the second round. Don't think Alford did much better and Lickliter....sheesh. I think this year's team super charged Fran's "magic formula" as you put it for a month or so there to start the Big Ten season and then it ran as dry as the Sahara Desert. Let's hope the newbies can breath new life into the program starting next year.

I think it probably is. We've got about 30 years now where that's basically our ceiling. Dr. Tom, Alford, Lickliter, Fran all had success elsewhere and couldn't get us past that on anything more than a fluke run Dr. Tom's last year.

 

[hawkfan1963]

I would have to disagree with your comparison there sir. If the Hawks don't crap their pants against OSU, PSU and ILL down the stretch, chances are their seeding for the NCAA tourney would have been higher. How much higher? Who knows. Probably a 5 seed, which would have given us a much better shot at the second weekend. At least a better shot at not getting housed in the second round. I believe Fran will get us there. Beyond that is another story for another time. Be optimistic fellow Hawkeyes!

But they did crap their pants, so that is why they need to get mentally tough. And if you want to win a national championship you are eventually going to need to play the big boys, also another reason to be mentally tough.

 

[Hawk40forever]

I think it probably is. We've got about 30 years now where that's basically our ceiling. Dr. Tom, Alford, Lickliter, Fran all had success elsewhere and couldn't get us past that on anything more than a fluke run Dr. Tom's last year.

I don't know if I would call it a fluke run. That was my sophomore year at Iowa and I thought they had a pretty good team put together. Were they going to make a run to the final four? Nope, but they gave the eventual national champion Huskies a run for their money. Lot of size on that team and of course the elder statesman that was Jess Settles. Biggest thing I remember was that once Ricky Davis bolted for the NBA (thank god cuz it was all about him his freshman year) that they played more like a team and not one player trying to score all the time. Glad to see Dr Tom go out with a Sweet 16 run. Felt like he was unceremoniously outed.

 

[Hawk40forever]

But they did crap their pants, so that is why they need to get mentally tough. And if you want to win a national championship you are eventually going to need to play the big boys, also another reason to be mentally tough.

They absolutely crapped their pants. One of the head scratching traits of this team for sure. 4 seniors and a junior starter should have had the mental toughness to win those games. Still can't wrap my head around how they could go into East Lansing and West Lafayette and win but couldn't go to Happy Valley and Columbus and get the job done. I know these are 18-22 year olds so anything can happen but a real Jekyll and Hyde component to this team this year.

 

[DanL53]

It is pretty amazing, he brings in marginal recruits, doesn't develop them, can't coach in games and yet somehow we've went 24-12 in the B10 the last two years. Quite the magic formula he's discovered.

But we'll never get to the Sweet Sixteen with him because we haven't yet. And as we watch the expectations from the Hawkeyechondriacs rise from just getting to the post season, to making the NCAA's to winning one in the NCAA's to Sweet Sixteens and of course higher and higher as long as there is something higher to point to......

.....we never seem to see Fran get credit for anything beyond, "I like Fran, but.."

You notice how three of the best centers who played under Dr. tom's 13 seasons were brought up to compare to Woody? Where was Curtis Cuthpert? (Never played a game.) Where were Koch, Rutger, ahhh heck, where they were was anywhere but compared to one of Fran's guys.

The ultimate problem is the Hawkeyechondriacs couldn't fairly assess anything Fran has done because they just want to complain. Reading this forum long enough just illuminates the same posters, again and again, making as big a deal out of a small thing as possible. And always with the effort towards pointing out failures.

Then they cry because they get slammed by others who don't put up with the crud. I say, then quit being stupid! You have a right to think what you decide to think, but if it is stupid, plan on being called a dork! Plenty of dorks on this thread.

Fran isn't going anywhere. So to those who that pains so much that you have to moan and cry everyday? Go away!

 

[33hawkfan]

I don't know if I would call it a fluke run. That was my sophomore year at Iowa and I thought they had a pretty good team put together. Were they going to make a run to the final four? Nope, but they gave the eventual national champion Huskies a run for their money. Lot of size on that team and of course the elder statesman that was Jess Settles. Biggest thing I remember was that once Ricky Davis bolted for the NBA (thank god cuz it was all about him his freshman year) that they played more like a team and not one player trying to score all the time. Glad to see Dr Tom go out with a Sweet 16 run. Felt like he was unceremoniously outed.

They went 5-8 down the stretch, lost in the first round of the B10 tournament, they were an NIT team the previous year and with or without Davis were going to struggle the following year.

 

[DanL53]

They went 5-8 down the stretch, lost in the first round of the B10 tournament, they were an NIT team the previous year and with or without Davis were going to struggle the following year.

We're not supposed to remember that stuff.

The truth is when Dr. Tom's contract was not renewed he had loyal players who gave him one heck of a great effort that last year. And it shouldn't be something Hawkeye fans have to bring up in way of adversarial competition between then and now. It's not like Fran tossed Dr. Tom out! Great last year for Dr. Tom considering the talent he had. Great four years for our four year guys, third best in the history of the school! Great compared to the talent they had.

And there is exposed the two faces that will hail Dr. Tom, but complain about Fran. Fran has us at least to Dr. Tom's level, I would argue a bit beyond. Maybe that's peeing off some old Dr. Tom fans? I don't know.

 

[Auger]

I think Fran can develope talent physically. It's the mental part of the game that eludes him. Lets face it, the Iowa and Wisconsin programs mirror each other. They basically get the same types of players, but Wisconsin can create a mental toughness in players that eludes Iowa. This mental toughness makes up for some physical shortcomings and in some cases make a player play better than they should be able too. That's what Iowa needs. You can see this toughness and don't give up attitude in Baer and Wagner and Jok and probably a few others. You can see it in them but at times it disappears. Fran needs to get this toughness to surface in all the players he gets and when it begins to disappear bring it back out in the players within the same game. When he does that IOWA will become very competitive. And as they become competitive they will continually upgrade the quality of players they get.

Spot on. Watching Wisconsin the second half of the season it was clear they were mentally stronger than most of their opponents. Huge difference then the Hawks. They always seem to play clean mentally strong basketball.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I would have to disagree with your comparison there sir. If the Hawks don't crap their pants against OSU, PSU and ILL down the stretch, chances are their seeding for the NCAA tourney would have been higher. How much higher? Who knows. Probably a 5 seed, which would have given us a much better shot at the second weekend. At least a better shot at not getting housed in the second round. I believe Fran will get us there. Beyond that is another story for another time. Be optimistic fellow Hawkeyes!

Absolutely correct in your assertion, but unfortunately they did. 3 things that have become staples of Fran-coached teams: Mediocre guard play, late season fades and brutal 5 minute and under execution. If not for Woody's tip, we lose to Temple and Fran would have yet another inexplicable meltdown loss after being up 10 late in the game.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Never my intention to put this all on Fran. I stated so I believe in the OP. However after six seasons it seems many of the players fail to develope areas of their game that were weak when they first came in. At that point you look at is it just a bunch of avg recruits that have hit their peak and can't advance or is it something the coaching staff needs to look at in how the are developing their players. Which brings me to what my question was. Does Fran and his staff struggle at developing their players. My question was never a statement like Fran and his staff absolutely can not develope any of their players. And I understand many on here get angry as soon as anyone questions the coaching staff and thats what they hear but my question it is a legit question that has some history to support the question.

No. My point is that when you recruit marginal athletes, expect marginal results. White had hops, could run, dunk and board because of his athleticism. Fran helped develop him, but if White had McCabe's athleticism, he would have been a non-factor as McCabe was. Olaseni could play above the rim. Woodbury could not, thus Olaseni could do more from day one because of his athleticism. Let me simplify it: LeBron James is not who he is because some coach really developed his game along the way.

Spot on. Watching Wisconsin the second half of the season it was clear they were mentally stronger than most of their opponents. Huge difference then the Hawks. They always seem to play clean mentally strong basketball.

Is that why they lost to Nebraska in the Big Ten Tourney by 12? Also, were they mentally stronger than ND in that last minute of their game in the tourney? Wiscy played better in the second half of league play when they went back to the swing offense they had went away from. Then, one player throws in 2 three pointers late in a game to turn a loss into a win. Good for them. Not exactly clear mental strength in my book. Sometimes, the shot goes in (Xavier game). Sometimes, you throw the ball away and miss a late layup (ND game). It's just that simple.

 

[DanL53]

Spot on. Watching Wisconsin the second half of the season it was clear they were mentally stronger than most of their opponents. Huge difference then the Hawks. They always seem to play clean mentally strong basketball.

They finished with the same GDed record!!! But Wisconsin ALWAYS seems to play mentally strong basketball? The same record!?!?

Talk about Cherry Picking to complain. Could it be:

Iowa had a senior lead team that didn't have that extra "get better" in them from experience down the stretch when they were already at their peak!?
Wisconsin had a team with THREE positions to reload and as the season went on they meshed?
Forgive me, but I will bring up the officiating as AN OPINION of mine is it is not coincidental that Mich St and Wisconsin started winning about the same time Iowa started losing.

4-14, 8-10, 9-9, 9-9, 12-6, 12-6

Only one of THREE Big Ten teams to be invited to the Dance in all of the last three years.

And we still like Fran, but??????

 

[Hawk40forever]

Absolutely correct in your assertion, but unfortunately they did. 3 things that have become staples of Fran-coached teams: Mediocre guard play, late season fades and brutal 5 minute and under execution. If not for Woody's tip, we lose to Temple and Fran would have yet another inexplicable meltdown loss after being up 10 late in the game.

Not to sound like a debbie downer but the way we executed, or didn't execute, late against Temple we were lucky to get out of that game with the W. Missing free throws late (an unfortunate staple of this team the last 3 or 4 years), fouling a 3 pt shooter at the end of the game (WTF?!?!)....and one could even make a case for a push off on Woody for the tip in...but I sure didn't see anything

 

[DanL53]

12-6 and 12-6 the last two years. Becoming a staple of Fran's coaching!?!?

Personally I expect a slightly down year as we reload in 2016-17, but considering the other staple of upward trajectory I think I can understand if we struggle a bit one year as happens to all teams. But I worry it's going to kill the Hawkeyechondriacs. Then I won't get to watch them fall all over themselves saying, "I always liked Fran...just had..concerns."

Wow, Top 100, Top 25...that's two guys already committed in 2017 and 2018...Plus top 50 Cook in 2016. Wow.

 

[Auger]

They finished with the same GDed record!!! But Wisconsin ALWAYS seems to play mentally strong basketball? The same record!?!?

Talk about Cherry Picking to complain. Could it be:

Iowa had a senior lead team that didn't have that extra "get better" in them from experience down the stretch when they were already at their peak!?
Wisconsin had a team with THREE positions to reload and as the season went on they meshed?
Forgive me, but I will bring up the officiating as AN OPINION of mine is it is not coincidental that Mich St and Wisconsin started winning about the same time Iowa started losing.

4-14, 8-10, 9-9, 9-9, 12-6, 12-6

Only one of THREE Big Ten teams to be invited to the Dance in all of the last three years.

And we still like Fran, but??????

Hmmm the fact Wisconsin had to replace so many guys and had absolutely no bench this year and still finished with a better season then us says something. They peaked late we bombed late. Which team played with mental toughness down the road? Both teams had about equal talent.

Just because you can never be critical doesnt make you some great hawkeye fan. The fact you can never have a normal conversation without lashing out and calling people names who have a different view then you actually shows a lack of IQ and a lack of maturity in you. I guess we should all just keep smiling when we tank two of the last 3 years, get blown out in both 2nd Rd games. Lose 3 big ten tourney opening games in a row, and watch Iowa lose game after game during the season when we are under 2 mins and a lot of those games we just blow the leads and throw the game away. But no just smile and nod like drooling fools and attack those who differ instead of entering any kind intelligent debate/conversation.

 

[Hawk40forever]

Hmmm the fact Wisconsin had to replace so many guys and had absolutely no bench this year and still finished with a better season then us says something. They peaked late we bombed late. Which team played with mental toughness down the road? Both teams had about equal talent.

Just because you can never be critical doesnt make you some great hawkeye fan. The fact you can never have a normal conversation without lashing out and calling people names who have a different view then you actually shows a lack of IQ and a lack of maturity in you. I guess we should all just keep smiling when we tank two of the last 3 years, get blown out in both 2nd Rd games. Lose 3 big ten tourney opening games in a row, and watch Iowa lose game after game during the season when we are under 2 mins and a lot of those games we just blow the leads and throw the game away. But no just smile and nod like drooling fools and attack those who differ instead of entering any kind intelligent debate/conversation.

I think being able to put down the black and gold colored glasses and see the inadequacies that our basketball/football/wrestling/water polo teams have shows true fandom. No one is going to cheer harder or scream and yell louder than I would but I would also be the first person to acknowledge when one of our teams lack in any certain area. Our basketball team had, as a whole, a very solid season. Had they bombed early and gotten beat by the MSU's and Purdue's of the world but ran off 7, 8 or more victories in a row to end the season, win a couple of games in each of the tourneys then things would be great. Unfortunately it didn't happen and we have to be able to see that things are not golden....yet. Let's see how this next class of Hawks do before we ultimately pass judgement on Coach McCaffery.

 

[DanL53]

Hmmm the fact Wisconsin had to replace so many guys and had absolutely no bench this year and still finished with a better season then us says something. They peaked late we bombed late. Which team played with mental toughness down the road? Both teams had about equal talent.

Just because you can never be critical doesnt make you some great hawkeye fan. The fact you can never have a normal conversation without lashing out and calling people names who have a different view then you actually shows a lack of IQ and a lack of maturity in you. I guess we should all just keep smiling when we tank two of the last 3 years, get blown out in both 2nd Rd games. Lose 3 big ten tourney opening games in a row, and watch Iowa lose game after game during the season when we are under 2 mins and a lot of those games we just blow the leads and throw the game away. But no just smile and nod like drooling fools and attack those who differ instead of entering any kind intelligent debate/conversation.

No! Just pull your mind out of the gutter and look at the big picture. How can you be moaning constantly when we're getting better and better!?!?

 

[DanL53]

I think being able to put down the black and gold colored glasses and see the inadequacies that our basketball/football/wrestling/water polo teams have shows true fandom. No one is going to cheer harder or scream and yell louder than I would but I would also be the first person to acknowledge when one of our teams lack in any certain area. Our basketball team had, as a whole, a very solid season. Had they bombed early and gotten beat by the MSU's and Purdue's of the world but ran off 7, 8 or more victories in a row to end the season, win a couple of games in each of the tourneys then things would be great. Unfortunately it didn't happen and we have to be able to see that things are not golden....yet. Let's see how this next class of Hawks do before we ultimately pass judgement on Coach McCaffery.

12-6 and 12-6 has nothing to do with any glasses. That's a fact unless you are too blind to see it.

 

[championhawk]

Don't get sucked into Auger's trolling. He tried the same stuff on the wrestling board but most didn't take the bait so he moved back to the basketball forum.

 

[Auger]

I think being able to put down the black and gold colored glasses and see the inadequacies that our basketball/football/wrestling/water polo teams have shows true fandom. No one is going to cheer harder or scream and yell louder than I would but I would also be the first person to acknowledge when one of our teams lack in any certain area. Our basketball team had, as a whole, a very solid season. Had they bombed early and gotten beat by the MSU's and Purdue's of the world but ran off 7, 8 or more victories in a row to end the season, win a couple of games in each of the tourneys then things would be great. Unfortunately it didn't happen and we have to be able to see that things are not golden....yet. Let's see how this next class of Hawks do before we ultimately pass judgement on Coach McCaffery.

Don't think anyone or not many are passing a condemning judgement on Fran yet including me. But as soon as someone posts about a flaw in the program and something that needs corrected something even the coaches would likely agree on the black and gold colored glasses fans as you call them come running out on the attack and go on a witch hunt turning the conversation and those that oppose them into Fran haters. You can ask a simple question like does Fran struggle at developing players and all they hear is Fran the devil hates all his players and not in a million years could he develope even a single basketball player.

 

[Auger]

Don't get sucked into Auger's trolling. He tried the same stuff on the wrestling board but most didn't take the bait so he moved back to the basketball forum.

Was actually very positive all season on the wrestling board until the last day of the tourney when Iowa tanked and went from 2nd to 5th and I challenged a critical question on what Iowa needs to do to improve as it seems Iowa wrestling is falling further behind PSU and other programs are catching up to Iowa. And just like that I became a troll because of one post.