That's a coach being a dumbass. How many times I have heard people talk about peoples' dumb tattoos.
ESPN article contradicts Morrow's post
- Thread starter CP84
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That's a coach being a dumbass. How many times I have heard people talk about peoples' dumb tattoos.
My work has random drug testing. I have one guy on my crew of 10, that has been randomly selected FOUR times just this year and another guy 3. That's out of 150 employees in the state of Iowa. I had a guy last year that got picked 5 times. I have been selected once in 2 1/2 years. There is a company that has a "random generator" that has everyone's names and does the selections. If you aren't going to piss hot, then why complain. It is what it is.
I believe it was Dez King responding to DJ Johnson about his issues maybe being more about him not being a starter and being treated differently because he was not the starter. Dez made the comment that
Does the random generator have any kind of weighting system to it, or is it strictly lotto ball random?
Does the random generator have any kind of weighting system to it, or is it strictly lotto ball random?
It was Geno Stone. He said Phil wasn't a problem and his issues were personal and not everyone's experience.
It's literally a computer program that spits out X% of our employees in the state, completely at random. The guy from this year and the one from last, that have had the most, are over 50 and never touched a drug in their lives. One of them doesn't even drink. So, it is just a random sampling. I think the generators get "stuck" on people sometimes, but again, I think it truly is at random.
Context is everything. Stepping on fingers isn't racism. It also matters how it was done. Was it done violently with intent to harm?
I had a coach who slapped us on the back of our heads. It wasn't violent and it was more surprising than hurtful. If a player tweeted that, a lot of people here would be acting horrified.
It sounds like a lot of people never played a contact sport.
It should be looked into but not necessarily assumed to be as horrible as some are making it. Context and intent are important.
I think he’s gone. I also happen to think these accounts might be embellished a bit but there’s simply too much smoke for there not to be a fire somewhere. I hate to even say this but even if he’s somehow totally innocent (which I don’t believe) the damage to keeping him around would be too much of a risk.
Whether we like it or not, Iowa sits in the middle of white America and most great college football players are black (not all but most), and for Iowa’s program to be successful we’ve got to be able to attract every high school player that fits our team needs. going forward, I don’t see how that’s possible with Doyle here after all of this mess.
my bottom lines:
1) see ya Doyle
2) BF better be proactive with apologies and promises to change (less anger, more sensitivity)
3) KF does what he’s already doing
I will defend Chris Doyle. Haven't ever met the man and if something comes out that proves him a racist or a sociopath then so be it and my mind will change. The man is being nationally disgraced and has been professionally harmed by people taking to Twitter and trashing him where they absolutely know he will be unable to respond. They are cowards not heroes. They have risked nothing at all to bring anything forward to the Twitter mob and it is just as likely they are doing do with malicious intent. The black players that have been silent or have stated it wasn't their experience have also been Twitter bullied to get in line.
What they did here is not ok. Thanking a man for putting them in the NFL only to maliciously and safely destroy him a few years later and everyone nods their head as if what they are preaching is the gospel.
Shame on them.
What they did here is not ok. Thanking a man for putting them in the NFL only to maliciously and safely destroy him a few years later and everyone nods their head as if what they are preaching is the gospel.
Shame on them.
the fact that so many other former players COULD HAVE spoken up in his defense and didn’t says something too.
Dez is about the only former player that’s even remotely trying to calm things down. Perhaps Stone as well but that seemed more about PP as a coach.
I could have missed some tweets or other communications but where is Clayborn, Spievey, Wirfs, Epenesa, Greene, etc? Even Kittle’s father has insinuated there are program-wide issues that need to change.
I wouldn't be so sure at this point. With the way the mob mentality is running, it would take a mighty tough hombre to buck the Twitter trend and say something contrary. Plus, even if one person did not see, or experience, any serious mistreatment, that doesn't mean it didn't happen to someone else.
So a careful person could potentially be very dubious about the claims AND also be smart enough to not speak out about something that they may legitimately not know about.
How about we let the independent investigators actually determine whether there have been improper activities and go from there?
If Doyle, or ANY coach, is found to be truly guilty of racism or other similarly serious offense then they can be dealt with appropriately. Until then, declaring the guilt, or innocence, of someone is premature at best...as the many, many commenters do not have the facts...and we have already seen that not all of the "facts" are actual facts.
A Twitter feed is not a fact stream.
Wrong. No one can speak in defense of Doyle or the program without being labeled a racist. Even other black players speaking in very general terms have been called out and told to get in line. It is groupthink and if you don't support the narrative you will be destroyed.
Shame on them.
I have said this is all a travesty especially for the players who went through it. Assuming it is all true. However, it would be beyond naive to believe any athlete regardless of race and regardless of the veracity of the allegations to support Doyle at this point. Quite frankly, a former black player if he supports Doyle or really anyone looks like a traitor to the cause/movement and a white player would be deemed racist. So to say “Well no former players are coming to the defense so everything is true” is pretty shortsighted. Once again, not saying everything is true or some is true but no way anybody in this climate would ever come forward to support Doyle or the program really for that matter.
I actually think it is somewhat racist to suggest no other black former players would dare try to squash lies (which is what some people are calling these accusations) or embellishments.
I get it takes courage to stand up to an angry mob, but some of the players I mentioned above have earned the right to squash any BS allegations.
Just my .02 but I’d think it is more likely they never saw or heard any of these things themselves. If I were in their shoes I’d post EXACTLY THAT - “I personally never witnessed these behaviors but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Let’s all work together to listen, heal, and improve. Even though it never happened in my presence I support my brothers and I support these coaches because I know they’ll work to get better”
I get it takes courage to stand up to an angry mob, but some of the players I mentioned above have earned the right to squash any BS allegations.
Just my .02 but I’d think it is more likely they never saw or heard any of these things themselves. If I were in their shoes I’d post EXACTLY THAT - “I personally never witnessed these behaviors but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Let’s all work together to listen, heal, and improve. Even though it never happened in my presence I support my brothers and I support these coaches because I know they’ll work to get better”
It also takes courage to confront a superior about their poor behavior and at this point in time it seems apparent that NONE of the former players ever did that...at any time and in any form...even after their playing days were over. (Perhaps we will learn differently in the future as more facts come out, but if so, then Ferentz has an even BIGGER problem than the one he is facing now as he is on record as not knowing about any of this.)
I don't know why anyone would expect courage from any current player to stand up to angry mob of "cancelers" when no players, apparently, had enough courage to ever address these issues man-to-man, behind closed doors at any point in the past 20+ years.
That's fine on the racist front. I'm just saying too many former black players have said he negatively affected their experiences and, thus, the culture of the program. How many seasons have fans complained that Iowa underperformed did they actually underperform because of the culture that Doyle created and how many quality starters or depth players transferred because of that culture that contributed to Iowa underperforming in years like 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, and so on? I don't care if he';s a racist or not; bottom line is that he is negatively impacting team culture and the experience of black players on the team. And NOW it's out in the public which affects the reputation of the University of Iowa's football program and could negatively impact team culture this year and affect recruiting in future years. He's got to go.
There's proof that he's unconsciously biased based on the statements of over a dozen former players. He's certainly not making those guys feel welcome in the program and highly respected players like Davis, Johnson, Stone, Hooker, and others have come out and said a change needs to be made for the good of the program--those former players have said that they WANT the football program to be successful in the future and want the program to improve in terms of culture. It's time to move on from Doyle because his public reputation is negatively impacting the football program.
I see. Yeah, that's a good point. And former players (other than Morrow) have said Kirk Ferentz was not the problem or, if he did have a problem, it was that he was blind to how Doyle was creating a negative culture for black players. And I understand why players wouldn't speak up while they were there--they didn't want to get in anyone's dog house and have their chances to play diminished by being "a problem." That's the negative culture Doyle created, silencing black players who may have wanted to speak out but feared that they'd be the ones punished in terms of suspensions or diminished playing time. Nevertheles,s it appears Kirk was not the problem and he's now taking the former players comments seriously. I think the most satisfying outcome for all sides will be removing Doyle from the program. That will help KF this year and in the future.
So...in the future all it will take is for some former players to lodge a vague grievance, or perhaps multiple, on social media...without any validation as to whether or not it is true...and that's it...time to move him out?
If so...good luck ever having any team success ever again. No coach will ever raise their voice or hold any player accountable to any team rule, etc, for fear of later reprisal...whether accurate or not.
It is the volume of complaints from former players, plus the character and reputation of those players. They are performing investigations now. And, yes, it's time to move on because public reputations of football programs (and all institutions) matter. The complaints are not that he's a jerk; the complaint is that he made black players feel demeaned, disrespected, and afraid because of their race. I think it was about 48 players who came out over two days over the weekend? I don't know how many more have come out since then.
Kirk Ferentz and other coaches yelled at players A LOT during practices and in the locker room, but no players are naming other coaches besides Doyle. I guess there were a couple about Brian Ferentz, but unless a lot more come out about Brian I don't think he should be replaced. Doyle, though? Hell, yeah, get rid of him. And the team will be better for it because players will still be held accountable. Hell, some team rules have already been changed by Ferentz because of feedback he's received that those rules were problematic. Teams don't need to be totalitarian and make players live in fear to be successful. Quite the opposite is true.
The complaints appear to be much more slanted towards being a jerk than racist.
They claim race, likely in the wake of the Floyd event and Kirk's post about kneeling.
90% of the accusations however appeared to be bullying, not race related. Several white players chimed in with their own similar accounts.
Offfff course you do. If it makes you feel a little better, a white player sure as hell isn't going to call out any of these players if they're lying either
Ummm...Phil Parker and Seth Wallace have also been implicated, if not explicitly by name, certainly by description. So by my count, at least 5 coaches have been implicated, yes, Doyle seems to be drawing the most heat, but would not any S&C Coach be getting the lion's share of "he was mean to me" type of complaints?
Right now it is not at all clear that anything improper that was said or done was truly racially motivated. I would prefer to see some facts that conclusively establish that before declaring someone a "goner".
I would imagine the twiiter ban being lifted is temporary, at least I sure hope so, as this shit storm shows.....
This dude was prolly the first 4 star safety to NOT see the field. Im thinking dude thought he'd come here and be bob Sanders. So many people don't wanna work for it.
Lotta people here scratching each other's back. Couldn't have happened....players have an axe to grind....only little bitty unimportant reasons given about coach's behavior....players refused to follow sensible rules....players need to man up and take it....no changes needed on our team.
Spent a career in negotiations - salary, working conditions, conflict management. When you hear a complaint, you open an ear. You hear it twice, you open both ears. 3...4...5...6...20...30 times, you better buckle up and take action because some or all of it is surely true. Ferentz is doing that. I predict it gets uglier before it gets better.
Spent a career in negotiations - salary, working conditions, conflict management. When you hear a complaint, you open an ear. You hear it twice, you open both ears. 3...4...5...6...20...30 times, you better buckle up and take action because some or all of it is surely true. Ferentz is doing that. I predict it gets uglier before it gets better.
It appears that he's enough of a jerk and a bully that he should no longer be part of the program. Time to move on from Doyle.
I think the nature of the complaints demonstrate that Doyle created a bad environment for players and that has affected team chemistry. That's enough to get rid of him. There's no reason to have a person who is bullying or acting inappropriately leading the S&C program. He should be removed for the good of the team and the overall football program culture.
