You missed my point yet again.
You claimed you don't "share your beliefs" here yet you've been doing it for 10 pages lol..
Get real and stop trolling.
TIA.
Face it you heathens... the Bible is VERIFIABLE HISTORY
- Thread starter NoleATL
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You missed my point yet again.
You claimed you don't "share your beliefs" here yet you've been doing it for 10 pages lol..
Get real and stop trolling.
TIA.
It's easier to be an atheist...you can do whatever you want all the time.
I was an atheist for years, it was fun, sort of.
You seem to be getting a little sensitive Bri.
Not true. It’s way easier to believe that after you die you get to spend eternity in a make believe place, filled with all the people and things you love. Realizing that life is precious and there is nothing waiting for you after you die is much scarier. It’s okay that you believe in faitheytales, but I believe in reality.
It's way easier to believe there's no eternal Hell.
You can do whatever you want believing that death is the end.
LOL...so tell me what I believe. You believe in omniscience AND free will. What do I believe? All I've said is that they can't logically coexist.
You've already shared your beliefs a few dozen times in this thread...there's no need to repeat your beliefs since you claim you don't. Lol
Not true. The easiest thing to believe in is that you can be forgiven for your sins and live in eternal bliss. That’s why the majority of the planet is religious. Believing that when you die that’s the end of everything, is much harder.
Now tell me that America is predominantly Atheist without having any actual proof other than your biased religious sites.
Cognitive dissonance.
The problem is that you kinda suck as a poster. No offense.
Ummm...whut? I didn't tell you to ask me...I told you to TELL me. It should be a simple task since you claim I've shared them "a few dozen times". BTW, being a Quaker really isn't helpful to you. We're all over the map. I can give you a source on that, if you like.
No thanks...you're not interesting enough to engage with. I'll leave you be.
I think it's easier to be in your situation. You can do whatever you want since you believe you'll just be worm food in a few decades.
That's alot easier than the eternal stakes of Heaven or Hell.
See my point?
And there's the crux of your problem. You make claims, yet when you get questions you run away. I REALLY do want a logical explanation that puts omniscience and free will in the same universe. That would be fascinating. But alas...no such luck.
No I don’t see your point.
You can do whatever you want and simply repent your sins and still get to live in eternal bliss. If that’s not an easy cop out, I don’t know what is.
I gave you an answer. You keep repeating the question.
That's part of the reason I think engaging with you is a waste of time. Plus, you are a hypocrite about "not sharing your views" when you do that all day here.
I don't think you're honest.
I think it's best to put you on "Ignore" from now on.
Cya.
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I can't do whatever I want. That's the predicament.
An atheist can do whatever they want. There's no authority.
Free will lets you do whatever you want Brian. All you have to do is confess your sins and accept God as your lord and savior on your death bed and you get a free pass to heaven and eternal bliss. That’s the easiest thing to believe.
I believe that once I die, that’s it. No afterlife at all. Hell is an afterlife. It may be bad, but at least it’s life.
I believe that death is death. It’s final.
> All you have to do is confess your sins and accept God as your lord and savior on your death bed and you get a free pass to heaven and eternal bliss. That’s the easiest thing to believe.
That's not what I believe.
> I believe that death is death. It’s final.
That's easy. There's no authority or responsibility so you can do whatever you want.
"It's a mystery" isn't an answer.
Yet, when asked to tell me what I believe, you refuse. Odd.
I've been nothing but. You might be projecting.
Probably best that you retreat to your cocoon, but I've given you no reason to do so other than making you think.
So you don’t believe that I could have a change of heart on my death bed, confess my sins and accept JC and God as my Lord and saviors and get into Heaven? Interesting.
It’s been decades since I was forced into the cult, but that’s how I remember it.
That's more a protestant view.
I don't think that's how it works...we can't game God.
A death bed repentance may get someone into purgatory.
Another side step. Are we dancing or discussing religion?
I’m heading to bed.
Let’s talk in the morning. Unless you decide to ignore me too because I share different beliefs than you. That’s not very Christ like BTW.
That's exactly how it's purported to work - see the thief on the cross with Jesus. Brian seems confused on this point. They'll tell you it has to be sincere which makes sense. But then they'll hit you with Pascal's Wager to pull you into their faith...and Pascal's Wager reeks of insincerity.
Side step? Different beliefs are fine. I try to be tolerant.
I only put douchebags or trolls on "ignore."
Sleep well.
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I'm genuinely curious what things you want to do that you can't because of God.
I do all of the stealing, murdering, raping, infidelity that I want, which is none. I don't want to do those things. I doubt that you actually want to those things or that you need the threat of eternal damnation to not do those things.
I think what he means is that without fear of consequences for ones actions it becomes easier to engage in that type of behavior.
While you say you wouldn't pursue that kind of lifestyle, sadly there are just humans out there who do. They want to live like that. I used to genuinely believe there was good in every person. As I watch the world crumble I no longer feel that way. There are just genuinely terrible humans out there who desire to live an immoral, violent lifestyle. It would be likely those kinds of people do not believe in a creator or a God. This would require accountability.
Not to pick on Brian but it’s an obvious example of the fallacy of this argument. The abuse of thousands of children by Catholic priests (and by Protestant youth pastors) puts the lie to the idea that organized religion puts any special brake on peoples’ behaviors. People - ALL people - build their moral code based on their environment and to a far lesser extent, their DNA. Those raised in a moral environment will exhibit, for the most part, ethical behaviors. If parents want to use the church to serve as a guide, more power to them…quite sincerely. It isn’t necessary by ANY stretch. Parents and families and the community are fully capable of instilling moral values in children with no need for the church.
Christianity can be a force for good. So too can Islam or Buddhism or Shintoism or humanism. All can be subverted, as well. None of them hold any special place over the other. History vividly demonstrates it.
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Yeah I agree to a lot of this . I will add that people are born with, and I will admit an incomplete moral center .
As humans we have a sense of justice because we were created in God’s image. We see injustice and it bothers us because we mirror God’s feeling of injustice.
Of course how a person behaves is influenced by environment . So if you grow up in a vacuum with no direction how does a person learn right and wrong? If you trace behavior back to its origin you have to give the credit to a Creator, who instilled in humans his personality.
So this is why I place high value on the Bible’s principles and guidance. Who better knows human make up more than our Creator? Just my humble take on it of course
The Bible has no inherent meaning. It isn't univocal. Every group, people, religion negotiates with the Bible to serve their purposes. That is why the Bible can be a proof text for slavery and for abolitionism. To find the principles and guidance in the Bible you or your religious leaders selectively subvert the parts you don't agree with and elevate the parts you do. You place high value on the dogma that you have learned about the text not the text itself. Which is fine if that is how you want to interact with it.
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ok
well if you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God then that's an entirely different discussion.
I'm simply saying the principles for human behavior are contained in the bible.
And I vehemently disagree it has no inherent meaning.
The Bible discusses everything relevant to repair the damage the rebellion in Eden caused, and how it would be accomplished thru Jesus Christ.
That, and principles that help people with daily living.
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If there was no "rebellion in Eden"...if it's an allegory to explain why their lives were nasty, brutish, and short...then there's no damage to repair. We just are what we are. There are principles for living but that doesn't make it unique...and some of those OT principles are pretty ghastly and have been used to justify some really bad behavior. Anyone who wishes to use the Bible as a moral guidepost could absolutely do far worse, my only quibbles are 1) trying to insert strictly Biblical principles like prayer into our public life and 2) those who try to claim that without it, people will devolve into amoral animals. It's complete nonsense.
I'm not sure where the people will turn into animals without prayer came from...certainly not from me.
And inserting religious beliefs into public life for personal or political gain is ridiculous. I have no problem with anyone praying in a public situation, but nothing should be forced on anyone.
I defend my beliefs but totally accept everyone's viewpoint and respect those.
Just as a serious question: How does the Quaker religion view things like you discussed earlier. God being omnipresent etc...Im curious to know their stand on such things.
I appreciate your views. As for how Quakers view all the omni's...there is no dogma in Quakerism. No creed. No sacred scripture although John is often referred to as the "Quaker Bible". George Fox, the founder, was devout but set no conditions. Today, you can find evangelical Quakers and humanist Quakers...sometimes even in the same meeting.
I’ll have to do some research on the Quaker beliefs. But appreciate the info.,
At the end of the day no matter what we believe we’re all facing the same issues.
I believe there is good people in all faiths . This is where I’m glad I’m not the judge comes into play
I've often thought what this thread was like.. Anyway I'm still not reading it
