Face it you heathens... the Bible is VERIFIABLE HISTORY
- Thread starter NoleATL
- Start date
This ^^^
is directly contradicted by this:
An omniscient, omnipotent creator of all things devised a "perfect plan" that failed...miserably.
OR...the perfect plan of this omnipotent, omniscient creator of all things devised a "perfect plan" designed to fail. Meaning this Satan dude had to lead a rebellion as part of creator's "perfect plan".
If you want to celebrate something, might I suggest:
Well I know the simple answer you want to me to say is we all gain heaven by accepting Jesus as our savior and being a good person etc…
However this is one big difference between our beliefs .
Jehovahs witnesses do believe that some people will go to heaven but it will be a small number. That small group of people who are privileged to be in the heavenly kingdom will rule with Jesus in his kingdom. Revelation 5:9,10 says they are to rule as kings over the earth . Well to rule they have to have subjects correct?
Jesus actually said at Luke 12:32”Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom”
You notice it’s a little flock?
Then Notice what he says at John 10:16”And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd”
So that other sheep group would be faithful humans Who will live on a paradise earth under that heavenly government.
Revelation 7:4 and Revelation 14:1 describes that heavenly group numbering 144,000. So you would say say a “little flock “ compared to the billions of people on earth. That other group of faithful humans or “other sheep “ is unnumbered. But they are described at Revelation 7:9,10;13-17 as a great crowd. They come out of the great tribulation after Gods war of Armageddon to live under the ruler ship of Christ and that small group of 144,000 anointed followers.
Those on that paradise earth gain eternal life , but on a paradise earth .
After all Gods original purpose was to have perfect humans living on a perfect paradise earth and that is still his purpose.
The heavenly hope is reserved for that small group and God himself chooses those individuals. They know if they are called to that hope. The Bible says Gods “spirit bears witness to their spirit that they are Gods sons”(Roman’s 8:16)
Whew… a lot to digest there I know.
The plan I referred to was how God reacted after the rebellion in Eden. He immediately put a plan in place to repair the damage Satan and his rebellion caused. Sending Christ to earth and allowing him to die for faithful mankind was the ultimate sacrifice and the greatest act of love ever.This ^^^
is directly contradicted by this:
An omniscient, omnipotent creator of all things devised a "perfect plan" that failed...miserably.
OR...the perfect plan of this omnipotent, omniscient creator of all things devised a "perfect plan" designed to fail. Meaning this Satan dude had to lead a rebellion as part of creator's "perfect plan".
If you want to celebrate something, might I suggest:
Adam was a willing participant in the rebellion in Eden. He chose to disobey. God warned him of those consequences . So for god to warn Adam of the consequences knowing he would sin doesn’t make much sense does it?
So the omniscient, omnipotent creator of all things missed the consequences of creating Satan with free will? Or the omniscient, omnipotent creator of all things is neither omniscient nor omnipotent?
No, it makes zero sense. That's kinda the point.
We’ve danced this dance before. Do all of your talking points come out of The Watchtower? You know you’re not allowed to interpret anything unless The Watchtower approves it first!! Wouldn’t want free thinking people reading the living word of God no would we (I see you Mr. Russell)!
John 1 sums it up nicely for me although there are ample verses to support the triune God.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
If you want more details: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...hovahs-witnesses-when-they-knock-at-the-door/
I’ll provide this if you care to take a look . It really provides a good explanation of the very question you’re asking.
Yeah I know you too .
We have danced this before. I don’t need a watchtower to see multiple scriptures that point to Jesus not being God himself.
As with Brian I respect your strong faith in your beliefs
You may want to read the link I sent, it has like, A LOT of versus to support Jesus as the triune God.
What good is Jesus’s sacrifice if He wasn’t God? Might as well have been Brian or Tar on that cross.
To balance the scales of justice A prefect man was needed to replace the perfect life that Adam lost . God could have chosen any one of his perfect angels to provide the ransom .
He chose out of love to allow his only begotten Son to come to earth and provide that ransom. So no Brian or Tar. Couldn’t provide that ransom . He was a perfect man on earth and he proved that a perfect man could keep his integrity under trial. God sending his son was the greatest act of love ever shown .
The 144,000 are those chosen to rule with Christ in the heavens as kings over the earth.
They rule over the great crowd of faithful mankind who will live on earth
That small group isn’t the only ones “saved” they just have the privilege to rule over human on earth ,
Look up several posts. I listed all in a reply to Brian. He asked earlier
God chooses those with that heavenly hope. Romans tells us God’s spirit bears witness with our spirit that were of that group. In other words those people KNOW without doubt they are of that privileged group.
You can't prove it's not real so how can you know what you should be dedicating your time to?
The scripture would indicate those chosen know they are in that group. Gods Holy Spirit makes it absolutely clear. Not a fleeting desire or just an inkling. They know for sure
I do not consider myself in that group . My hope is to live in paradise on earth . Living on a renewed paradise on earth sounds pretty good as a second place prize! 🙂
That's an awful gamble. For instance, if our lifespan is an inch, eternity spans the universe and back, over and over.
But, they only come from the 12 tribes right (Revelation 7:5-8). And all have the names on their foreheads as written correct?
I think that fact alone should cause anyone to it into a little more closely.That makes perfect sense. You really can’t argue with that logic.
I believe the documents written and events that took place in the first and second century are truly remarkable and actually pretty convincing if you take the time to properly dig into it all.
So many people just reject everything without due diligence.
You’re a broken record…we understand…do your own thing, yada, yada, yada.
non-denominational. I probably should identify as orthodox. My church most would say Baptist.
I think what he was getting at is that Christians believe the only way to salvation is confession of your sins and faith in the one true God who died for people’s sins. If someone just does good works, but doesn’t have faith/belief, then that person is not saved.
Trinity…god three in one….God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. 😉
This doesn't solve your problem, you know. It's baffling how you could read that and not see this it's totally irrelevant.
Still, someone may object, ‘But how could an all-wise God not have known?’ Granted, a facet of Jehovah’s great wisdom is his capability to know “from the beginning the finale.” (Isaiah 46:9, 10) However, he does not have to use this capability, just as he does not always have to use his immense power to the full. Jehovah wisely uses his ability of foreknowledge selectively. He uses it when it makes sense to do so and fits the circumstances.
If this god is omniscient, choosing to use this power or not is beside the point. Adam and Eve are still created to fail. God looks, doesn't look...THEY STILL FAIL. It's like claiming a tv show can turn out differently if I don't read the script ahead of time. It's nonsense.
Suppose instead of warning them, your god took a peek and saw them eat from the tree. He tells them they're absolutely going to do it and gives them the consequences of their failure ahead of time. Could they have "chosen" differently? Even knowing that in advance, they had to "choose" to fail. They can't go against their creator's foreknowledge whether he avails himself of it or not. Hence, they never had free will to do anything but what they did. Understand, their future was preordained whether your god took a look or not. Look. Don't look. Warn them. Don't warn them. They. Are. Going. To. Eat. The. Fruit. It's in the script.
Their course was set from the very beginning whether your god looked or not. For them to do otherwise would mean god doesn't have magical vision - his decision to use or not use it is meaningless in how the future unfolds. This really is quite simple logic.
