ADVERTISEMENT

Face it you heathens... the Bible is VERIFIABLE HISTORY

bdcolt45er said:
Agreed. The ethic of the God of the Hebrew Bible is might makes right. People apply philosophical ideas that developed later to a God that did not develop with those concepts in mind. If we accept his ethic as described in the Bible then genocide is fine not only fine but a moral obligation when defeating your enemies. If someone commits a crime we should punish their children and their grandchildren.
Click to expand...
Interesting but I disagree. When I read Genesis, I see Jesus foreshadowed. I see it again in the Torah. I see a God who was consistent from the beginning.

I see philosophical ideas that developed later as a way to “prep” other cultures to be ready to accept the Gospel message. God demonstrates a pattern of preparation in the Bible.

Plato as an example. It would have been hard for ancient Greeks to comprehend what was coming had it not been for Plato’s ideas a few hundred years earlier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrianNole777
McLovin32 said:
I've read this thread. You've got like 60 posts in it arguing with tarheel. I'm well aware that whatever answer I give you will result in more and more questions.

I like you, but you religious kooks don't know when to stop sometimes.
Click to expand...

It's alot better than the endless political bickering, IMO.
 
McLovin32 said:
I've read this thread. You've got like 60 posts in it arguing with tarheel. I'm well aware that whatever answer I give you will result in more and more questions.

I like you, but you religious kooks don't know when to stop sometimes.
Click to expand...
It’s my Achilles heel I guess. I just want people to seriously stop and consider the ramifications of a world where each person decide what “good” means.

Wait, we kinda already are there. And then it really starts to make sense why we live in the kind of world we do. But, what if this world is not what it was originally supposed to be?

We need someone to straighten all this out for us. We cannot do it ourselves.

Thankfully, I have hope it will be fixed. Just want to share the hope I have with the rest of you freaks and perverts!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrianNole777
LuciousBDragon said:
A few thoughts:

- God did not build mankind to fail. On the contrary, we are His masterpiece (see Ephesians).
Click to expand...
Then his work sucks. His creation failed right out of the gate.

LuciousBDragon said:
God created all things good and that includes freedom & free will. Free will produced sin. Sin separates us from God (if He wanted robots, He could have just done that you know).
Click to expand...
So this god isn't omniscient? Isn't omnipotent? He put these kids in a garden with easily accessible baubles that he commanded them to leave alone and then he...what?...looked away? Knowing the consequences of their failure to heed his command would condemn not only them but every human who ever lived to a life of toil and pain? That kind of behavior should get him a child endangerment charge. Especially since he knew it would happen before he ever created them. Or did he? It's all very bizarre. And nonsensical.

LuciousBDragon said:
But, He loves us so much that He created a plan to save us from sin (if you want to know what this plan is, read your OT and then NT - SPOILER ALERT - it’s Jesus and He wins!!!)!
Click to expand...
See above. Had he done his job well in the first place, no Jesus would have been needed. Sounds like Jesus was a patch for a defective roll-out.

LuciousBDragon said:
- God never ordered the death or destruction of innocents for all have sinned. The good news is that Christ’s atonement is available to all and God is merciful. So children (while guilty) can still be given grace and eternal life in Heaven.
Click to expand...
I already addressed that and you failed to respond. The genocide of the Amalekites was ordered because they supposedly attacked weary Israelites while they were escaping from Egypt. We have to take the Bible at its word on this but we should remember that history is written by the winners. There are no records of the Amalekites to corroborate - or dispute - the story.

Let's accept that justification. The children didn't have anything to do with that. Now you're saying their genocide didn't have anything to do with the supposed attacks. They were wiped out due to original sin. So the genocide had nothing to do with what the Amalekites actually did but had everything to do with what Adam and Eve did generations earlier. Talk about carrying a grudge, right?

The strangest part of all of this is that people swallow this BS with nary a blink. But, as I've repeatedly stated, you're free to believe anything you like within the law, as far as I'm concerned. Extend that courtesy to everyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabula
BrianNole777 said:
He was talking about the Trinity...the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I'm not trying to convince anyone in this thread. I know most Americans are atheists...I appreciate the discussion though.
Click to expand...
But they are one...or are they? Jesus sent himself? He forsook himself? So he sacrificed nothing? If he was god and knew he was god then he knew he couldn't die. He couldn't even be hurt unless he wanted to be hurt.
 
tarheelbybirth said:
The strangest part of all of this is that people swallow this BS with nary a blink. But, as I've repeatedly stated, you're free to believe anything you like within the law, as far as I'm concerned. Extend that courtesy to everyone else.
Click to expand...


I thought you attended a Quaker church...did you quit?
 
tarheelbybirth said:
But they are one...or are they? Jesus sent himself? He forsook himself? So he sacrificed nothing? If he was god and knew he was god then he knew he couldn't die. He couldn't even be hurt unless he wanted to be hurt.
Click to expand...

The Trinity is a tough concept to understand. It's one God in three parts.

It's like water could be ice, snow or steam.
 
LuciousBDragon said:
It’s my Achilles heel I guess. I just want people to seriously stop and consider the ramifications of a world where each person decide what “good” means.

Wait, we kinda already are there. And then it really starts to make sense why we live in the kind of world we do. But, what if this world is not what it was originally supposed to be?

We need someone to straighten all this out for us. We cannot do it ourselves.

Thankfully, I have hope it will be fixed. Just want to share the hope I have with the rest of you freaks and perverts!!!
Click to expand...
"But what if this world was not what it was originally supposed to be?" How can that even be with an omnipotent god? He knows everything, everything that's going to happen, so he knew (as you stated) it was going to fail before he even started? And he let it happen snd fail? Doesn't make any sense.
 
LuciousBDragon said:
It’s my Achilles heel I guess. I just want people to seriously stop and consider the ramifications of a world where each person decide what “good” means.
Click to expand...
I'm going to stop you right there. Each person DOES decide what "good" means. Good isn't imposed on you like some computer code. You base your decisions on the Bible. Fine. Other people read the same book and develop radically different decisions. Other people have no use for the Bible yet develop an idea of "good" that would be very similar if not identical to yours - the very definition of subjectivity. The idea that "good" is defined in the Bible in such a way that it means exactly the same thing to everyone is nonsense. Your fallback is that they get it wrong. They say the same about you. Sub-jec-tive.
 
sabula said:
"But what if this world was not what it was originally supposed to be?" How can that even be with an omnipotent god? He knows everything, everything that's going to happen, so he knew (as you stated) it was going to fail before he even started? And he let it happen snd fail? Doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Mysterious ways, mi amigo, mysterious ways. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabula
tarheelbybirth said:
John 7:33 Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me.

So who sent him?

John 17:4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

Same basic question. Is he talking to himself?

And, of course, you have the "Why hast thou forsaken me?" comment. Who would he be complaining to there?

Don't bother trying to explain it. It would just be more nonsense.
Click to expand...
I’ll just add one comment here as it’s been entertaining to watch you three go back and forth…
The answer to your questions is this …Jesus is not God. He is God’s only begotten son.
He himself said the Father is greater than himself (John 14:28)
Jesus had a beginning ( Colossians 1:15;
Revelation 3:14; Proverbs 8:22-30)
Jesus himself referred to his father as “my God”(John 20:17)
Who resurrected Jesus?
Who was he praying to the night of his arrest and while being put to death?
Did he not at his death utter the words”Father, forgive them , they know not what they do?”(Luke 23:34)
People have been in spiritual darkness regarding this truth for nearly two thousand years . The idea of a Trinitarian God was not a belief in ancient Israel(Deuteronomy 6:4) and Jesus disciples did not entertain this idea. Peter himself said when asked by Jesus who he was said “ You are the Christ, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD” Not God himself(Matthew 16:16)
But you gentlemen carry on…
P.S- I fully understand not everyone has a belief in a creator. On the surface if I saw the world in its condition and the suffering we see it would be hard to reconcile that with a God who the Bible describes As Love. However one thing people forget is the Bible also says the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one”, ( 1 John 5:19)God’s chief adversary satan the devil . Before you say well God created the devil not exactly. Satan began as a perfect spirit son of God, apparently an angel of high rank , possibly in oversight of the garden of Eden . God created his angelic sons with free will. The angel who became satan desired or coveted the worship that rightly belonged to God himself.
He acted on that desire and led the rebellion of Adam and Eve in Eden.
Satan challenged Gods right to rule and the way he was ruling. That’s why it was not just to execute those rebels right away . That challenge was in earshot of the rest of gods angelic sons so in his ultimate wisdom God had to allow time to pass to allow the devil to back up his claims. We’ve seen the results of independence from Gods perfect ruler ship.
War, violence, sickness , corruption, sin and imperfection , and ultimately death . As some of the others mentioned God had the perfect plan. Provide his only begotten as a ransom sacrifice to buy back what Adam had lost for all his children.
By presenting the value of his perfect life to God he proved a perfect man could keep his integrity to God thru all trials.
It’s a lot to digest of course . And I fully realize no one can change another’s viewpoint. All kinds of things and situations shape a persons view of spiritual things. I’m glad I’m not the judge.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: Hans81 and BrianNole777
BrianNole777 said:
What do you think Jesus meant when he said he was one with the Father i.e. God?

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: John 10:30 - New International Version

I and the Father are one.”
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
Click to expand...
In unity Brian.
Same thought, same purpose. Not actually the same person .
Too many other scriptures support the idea that Jesus was inferior to The Father, which right there ends the trinity possibility , because as u know all three facets are supposedly co equal in power correct? One not being greater than the other? Jesus saying he was not as great as God ends the possibility of a trinity
 
the24fan said:
In unity Brian.
Same thought, same purpose. Not actually the same person .
Too many other scriptures support the idea that Jesus was inferior to The Father, which right there ends the trinity possibility , because as u know all three facets are supposedly co equal in power correct? One not being greater than the other? Jesus saying he was not as great as God ends the possibility of a trinity
Click to expand...

Thanks for your perspective.
 
the24fan said:
One more thought here , why did the ancient Israelites not believe in the idea of a triune God?
Because they knew Yahweh was the only true God. No mention of a second and third facet of God. Do u agree with that ?
Click to expand...

No. I believe Jesus is God.

They believe Jesus is a heretic. Do you agree?
 
sabula said:
"But what if this world was not what it was originally supposed to be?" How can that even be with an omnipotent god? He knows everything, everything that's going to happen, so he knew (as you stated) it was going to fail before he even started? And he let it happen snd fail? Doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Pretty cool he anticipated what would happen and create a way to save us huh? He also foretold that there will be many who will witness God’s revelation and they will still reject Him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrianNole777
BrianNole777 said:
No. I believe Jesus is God.

They believe Jesus is a heretic. Do you agree?
Click to expand...
Who is they?
Yes it’s clear that’s what you believe, but again can you explain why Gods ancient people did not teach about a trinity?
Did Moses teach it? King David?, Solomon, Jeremiah, Isaiah , Ezekiel, ? Answer is no they didn’t . The idea of triune god was not introduced into Christian belief until the 3rd century . Long after the death of the apostles
 
tarheelbybirth said:
I'm going to stop you right there. Each person DOES decide what "good" means. Good isn't imposed on you like some computer code. You base your decisions on the Bible. Fine. Other people read the same book and develop radically different decisions. Other people have no use for the Bible yet develop an idea of "good" that would be very similar if not identical to yours - the very definition of subjectivity. The idea that "good" is defined in the Bible in such a way that it means exactly the same thing to everyone is nonsense. Your fallback is that they get it wrong. They say the same about you. Sub-jec-tive.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, you continue to attack that which you do not understand.

The Bible describes things that are good and also defines it but you’re going to hate it Tar! Good is anything aligned to God’s will. Each Christian is able to discern (if they so choose) God’s will through the word and through the Holy Spirit to determine if it is aligned with God’s will. This takes a lot of effort and to be honest, we do a not so great job instructing people how to do this. So they do what they think is good and you see how problems arise.

In the future, Christianity teaches Jesus will reign as King for His millennial kingdom. He’ll straighten us all out!
 
BrianNole777 said:
The Israelites meaning Jewish people.
Click to expand...
The Israelites knew about the messiah . They had prophecies about when he would appear . Where he would be born , . The nation as a whole rejected him as the messiah and only then were they cast off as Gods chosen nation
 
the24fan said:
The Israelites knew about the messiah . They had prophecies about when he would appear . Where he would be born , . The nation as a whole rejected him as the messiah and only then were they cast off as Gods chosen nation
Click to expand...

Yes. They believe Jesus is a heretic.

Since you quoted them my question was: Do you agree?
 
BrianNole777 said:
Yes. They believe Jesus is a heretic.

Since you quoted them my question was: Do you agree?
Click to expand...
Since we have spectators in this thread, it’s probably good to pause here and clarify @the24fan is a Jehovah’s Witness and call attention to the fact that they are not Christian since they do not adhere to numerous critical concepts, creeds, and Christ’s divinity.

If Jesus was not God, then His sacrifice meant nothing. In one day, God in real human flesh took on the sin of the world (millions and millions of people’s sin) and defeated death. Our God entered our world and the only way for God to do that was in the form of human flesh which is sinful. But God, in all His magnificence, overcame sin and led a perfect life, thus making Jesus and Jesus only worthy of the sacrifice.
 
  • Love
Reactions: BrianNole777
LuciousBDragon said:
Since we have spectators in this thread, it’s probably good to pause here and clarify @the24fan is a Jehovah’s Witness and call attention to the fact that they are not Christian since they do not adhere to numerous critical concepts, creeds, and Christ’s divinity.

If Jesus was not God, then His sacrifice meant nothing. In one day, God in real human flesh took on the sin of the world (millions and millions of people’s sin) and defeated death. Our God entered our world and the only way for God to do that was in the form of human flesh which is sinful. But God, in all His magnificence, overcame sin and led a perfect life, thus making Jesus and Jesus only worthy of the sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Oh the old were not Christian because we don’t believe he was God routine? Really? Thats a tired criticism . It’s ok Jesus said the road to life was narrow and cramped and few would find it.
Broad and spacious would be the road leading to destruction and many are on it.
The trinity doctrine is not a bible teaching , in fact the Catholic encyclopedia admits “the Trinity “is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God.”
I’ve heard the same tired argument about our supposedly not believing in Jesus. I assure u we do, as Gods only begotten son , not as God himself. We’ll have to agree to disagree .
One more thing who was the person who sent Jesus as he said? He sent himself then?
Who did he pray to? Himself?
Who resurrected him? Himself?
Who did he ascend to as he said h e would? Himself?
 
the24fan said:
Oh the old were not Christian because we don’t believe he was God routine? Really? Thats a tired criticism . It’s ok Jesus said the road to life was narrow and cramped and few would find it.
Broad and spacious would be the road leading to destruction and many are on it.
The trinity doctrine is not a bible teaching , in fact the Catholic encyclopedia admits “the Trinity “is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God.”
I’ve heard the same tired argument about our supposedly not believing in Jesus. I assure u we do, as Gods only begotten son , not as God himself. We’ll have to agree to disagree .
Click to expand...

I thought you believed Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

How does that reconcile with Him being the Son of God?

Just curious. Also, how does a person get to Heaven?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hbotus Dichotomous

What conversations have been happening in boardrooms across America the last couple days?

Replies
9
Views
369
Off Topic
tumorboy
tumorboy
Scruddy

Zuck Discusses Biden and Censorship

Replies
87
Views
1K
Off Topic
mnole03
mnole03
desihawk

Should the current government be making long-term strategic lock-in decisions on their way out?

Replies
36
Views
861
Off Topic
Titus Andronicus
Titus Andronicus
S

FBI Director Christopher Wray preparing to resign

Replies
53
Views
1K
Off Topic
lucas80
lucas80
sadiehawkins

I need a little help on the bible

Replies
5
Views
302
Off Topic
McLovin32
McLovin32
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back