This looks like one of those situations where people will be like.... why didn't you shoot him in the shoulder? And looking back, it seems like that probably would've got the job done.
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People like to complain that it is all about white cops out to get black people. I wish there would be more discussions in the black community about just complying with officers. Does society/media like to build this idea that white people punch and fight with cops and don't get shot?That one looks really bad.
Just comply, folks. Stay alive!
The counterargument from the BLM/progressive types is that Blacks react with distrust and fear of police, particularly white police, BECAUSE of past incidents of excessive force, etc. Frankly, they have a legitimate point that is backed up with plenty of anecdotal evidence. That is, they run and resist BECAUSE they are afraid of being beaten/shot.People like to complain that it is all about white cops out to get black people. I wish there would be more discussions in the black community about just complying with officers. Does society/media like to build this idea that white people punch and fight with cops and don't get shot?
Clearly this officer is in the wrong in this particular instance. The problem is, society never focuses on the lack of compliance as the ultimate cause of these problems.
People like to complain that it is all about white cops out to get black people. I wish there would be more discussions in the black community about just complying with officers. Does society/media like to build this idea that white people punch and fight with cops and don't get shot?
Clearly this officer is in the wrong in this particular instance. The problem is, society never focuses on the lack of compliance as the ultimate cause of these problems.
Moronic takePolice officers really need to be trained more in grappling and not losing their taser so damn easily.
The counterargument from the BLM/progressive types is that Blacks react with distrust and fear of police, particularly white police, BECAUSE of past incidents of excessive force, etc. Frankly, they have a legitimate point that is backed up with plenty of anecdotal evidence. That is, they run and resist BECAUSE they are afraid of being beaten/shot.
However, I think there is loads more evidence that in the vast, vast majority of situations, if you cooperate and comply with police, you are far, far more likely to come out of the interaction unscathed.
If I were a Black parent/mentor, etc., I would tell all younger Black folks to obsequiously comply with officers, even in situations where you feel you are being unfairly targeted. Better to be pissed off and alive than belligerent and dead. But then, that's easy for me to say as an upper middle class, middle aged white dude whose interactions with police have all been calm, polite and non-confrontational.
Well. I am very pro-cop first of all. I probably shouldn't have said clearly the cop is in the wrong. Putting myself in that situation, I do feel being on top of him, if I were to grab my gun and he was face down, I would have backed up and pointed the gun right at him. If he came at me then, I would have shot him.How so?
Your opening statement isn't necessarily true. This leftie is on the cops' side the vast majority of the time. If you fight a police officer you are taking a big risk of catching the dead.JFC. Here we go again. Same people, same sides. It’s really very simple and all of us know it, but some refuse to accept it because, ya know, politics. And you know damn well this video will only be viewed through political colored lenses.
1. It’s the law to properly register your vehicle. If you do not, you already know you are at risk of being pulled over.
2. When pulled over by LEO, you do not get out of the vehicle unless instructed to do so.
3. Don’t run from LEO.
4. Don’t fight with LEO once you’ve been caught.
5. Never reach for or fight to obtain the LEO’s weapon.
If you do not like rules 1-5, you do not agree with the established rules we have established to live in a free, safe society. You will always be at risk.
Lyoya does not appear to have any former convictions or criminal history.Yes, I agree. However, the counter argument from BLM is never having to take responsibility either. It's not like these black civilians that are pulled over don't have records. Most of them have lengthy records, have a warrant, are in possession of illegal firearms or drugs, and react violently to avoid being arrested. I think the situations are quite small where a black person that is pulled over for a simple violation and has no other issues, just starts punching and fighting with police because they are scared. I would be just as scared for any white person who started fighting with police. It likely won't end well.
Why is it a moronic take?Moronic take
I'm not sure I understand your use of the word obsequiously here. It's my favorite word.The counterargument from the BLM/progressive types is that Blacks react with distrust and fear of police, particularly white police, BECAUSE of past incidents of excessive force, etc. Frankly, they have a legitimate point that is backed up with plenty of anecdotal evidence. That is, they run and resist BECAUSE they are afraid of being beaten/shot.
However, I think there is loads more evidence that in the vast, vast majority of situations, if you cooperate and comply with police, you are far, far more likely to come out of the interaction unscathed.
If I were a Black parent/mentor, etc., I would tell all younger Black folks to obsequiously comply with officers, even in situations where you feel you are being unfairly targeted. Better to be pissed off and alive than belligerent and dead. But then, that's easy for me to say as an upper middle class, middle aged white dude whose interactions with police have all been calm, polite and non-confrontational.
Shawn is wrong, as usual.Your opening statement isn't necessarily true. This leftie is on the cops' side the vast majority of the time. If you fight a police officer you are taking a big risk of catching the dead.
I mean it in the way it's intended -- overly compliant, overly solicitous, overly polite.I'm not sure I understand your use of the word obsequiously here. It's my favorite word.
Lol. Really? Do you read chis and joes posts?Shawn is wrong, as usual.
I am a progressive and I think this shooting was justified.
It's ironic that the right wingers are always the one accusing the "other" side of being inflexible, yet they literally defend each and every POS Republican no matter what, 100 percent of the time, and those on the Left are far more likely to have nuanced takes.
Supposedly the dude asked a very clear "do you understand english". If so, that was very wise on the cops part and great policing imo.The really sad thing is I'm not even sure the suspect WAS acting like a POS. It very well may be that a combination of poor English skills, ignorance on American policing rules (i.e. you never get out of the car in a traffic stop, you never turn your back on a cop who is issuing verbal orders, etc.) and fear may have made the suspect behave out-of-the-norm. b
Like I said, complete tragedy for all involved.
He did, but wouldn't the suspect have to understand english to comprehend the question. In the beginning of the video, there seemed to be a clear lack of understanding of what was being asked of Lyoya.Supposedly the dude asked a very clear "do you understand english". If so, that was very wise on the cops part and great policing imo.
He may not have. Curious if he had anything in the vehicle that caused him to act like that. Bottom line, the focus always seems to be on the cop and not the actions of the person pulled over. If this guy had done nothing wrong, there is zero reason for him to act like he did. If he is that terrified of police, he probably shouldn't be driving, especially in a car without proper registration.Lyoya does not appear to have any former convictions or criminal history.
Originally from the Democratic Republic of Congo, he and his family came to the USA in 2014.
What was Patrick Lyoya's criminal history?
PATRICK LYOYA was shot in the back of his head by a cop, dying from the injuries. On Thursday, June 9, 2022, the police officer responsible for his death, Christopher Schurr, was charged with secon…www.the-sun.com
The first time I ever heard the word - 35ish years ago, it was in the sentence, "These cookies are downright obsequious." It was explained to me that it meant something that compliments another thing - like a scarf or a necklace could be obsequious. Now that sentence makes no sense per the only definition I can find.I mean it in the way it's intended -- overly compliant, overly solicitous, overly polite.
"Yes sir, I will sir!"
This is fact. There is nothing a Republican can do or say that is worse than a lib. The state of Tennessee is showing that almost every single day with the pure crazy going on down there.Shawn is wrong, as usual.
I am a progressive and I think this shooting was justified.
It's ironic that the right wingers are always the ones accusing the "other" side of being inflexible, yet they literally defend each and every POS Republican no matter what, 100 percent of the time, and those on the Left are far more likely to have nuanced takes.
Yeah, that's definitely not the right word usage!The first time I ever heard the word - 35ish years ago, it was in the sentence, "These cookies are downright obsequious." It was explained to me that it meant something that compliments another thing - like a scarf or a necklace could be obsequious. Now that sentence makes no sense per the only definition I can find.
I'm glad I don't say it much because it seems like I have been wrong about the definition for years. Thanks for using it today!
Yep I looked it up on several sites. It was literally used in the show Thirtysomething. A character called cookies downright obsequious.Yeah, that's definitely not the right word usage!
obsequious
[ uhb-see-kwee-uhs ]
adjective
characterized by or showing servile obedience and excessive eagerness to please; fawning; deferential:an obsequious bow;obsequious servants.
obedient; dutiful.
Absolutely. LEO training in general needs to be overhauled and reimagined.Police officers really need to be trained more in grappling and not losing their taser so damn easily.
You would be surprised biggrey.....but those are days gone by.....You assume a lot though....But cops get into trouble more oft than not because they FAIL to exercise proper caution.....Its a damn tough job but bad LEO decisions make it a lot tougher than it needs to be. It is important to remember that generally there is a "perp" who is a little more stupid and shows a little poorer judgment than the LEO... Not always, but generally. Tell me biggrey....If that LEO would have waited in his car and called for back-up...do you think any of this shit would have happened? As a LEO, you dont wanna put yourself in a "Rambo" situation...Joe you are a medical and police expert? Where did you do your police training?
Based off the information I have I cannot confirm that cop is 100% In thr right. It certainly does not.look good he was physically on top.of someone and fired a shot down. A review of the total interaction is needed. I am of the belief the officer did a damn good job with the situation in front of him however based off what we do know but there is wayyy more to this story.So do you now have enough information to know if the perp should have been shot in the back of the head?
Earlier today you indicated a full review was needed and wouldn't clearly answer yes or no. It seems like now that you know he wasn't just acting like a piece of shit and had taken a weapon from the officer, your answer may be more certain.
My understanding is that the officer fired the taser at Lyoya but missed (you can hear it deploy in the video). Lyoya then grabbed the taser away from the officer.My take is that the dead guy is vastly more culpable in the outcome. My concern with the police officer is why didn't he use his taser before trying to grapple such him? After he walked away, why did he get so close that the guy could grab the taser?
This is another example of the need for better training and police strategies for these situations.
Where did you see the taser used?Question on that taser though. It seemed to me that it had already been used and could not be used again without loading a new cartridge in it which does not seem to be something that the suspect could reasonably do.
That said the suspect is partially at fault here. Trying to take a taser away from a cop even if it can't be used again isn't a good idea.
Based off the information I have I cannot confirm that cop is 100% In thr right. It certainly does not.look good he was physically on top.of someone and fired a shot down. A review of the total interaction is needed. I am of the belief the officer did a damn good job with the situation in front of him however based off what we do know but there is wayyy more to this story.
Some tasers can be fired twice and I think there are some that can even be fired three times. I'm not sure which model the officer was using in this incident.Question on that taser though. It seemed to me that it had already been used and could not be used again without loading a new cartridge in it which does not seem to be something that the suspect could reasonably do.
That said the suspect is partially at fault here. Trying to take a taser away from a cop even if it can't be used again isn't a good idea.
If that's the case I don't understand why he was fighting over it at all.My understanding is that the officer fired the taser at Lyoya but missed (you can hear it deploy in the video). Lyoya then grabbed the taser away from the officer.
I am sure that the LEO was thinking as they were rolling on the ground trying to re-gain control of his taser...."Jeeeebus, how do I explain this to my Sergeant?"Police officers really need to be trained more in grappling and not losing their taser so damn easily.
Where did you see the taser used?
Some tasers can be fired twice and I think there are some that can even be fired three times. I'm not sure which model the officer was using in this incident.
The point about ignorance of American policing rules may have been a huge factor here. It sounds like he had been in the United States for only about 8 years and didn't have a criminal record. He may have had little or even no interaction with American police prior to this incident. And I don't know what police are like in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but I'm guessing some of them are probably a bit sketchy.The really sad thing is I'm not even sure the suspect WAS acting like a POS. It very well may be that a combination of poor English skills, ignorance on American policing rules (i.e. you never get out of the car in a traffic stop, you never turn your back on a cop who is issuing verbal orders, etc.) and fear may have made the suspect behave out-of-the-norm. b
Like I said, complete tragedy for all involved.
Why not?If that's the case I don't understand why he was fighting over it at all.
Who are you defining as the "suspect"?That's fair, looks like you're offering the suspect some benefit of the doubt. I don't understand how you reconcile what you've said here and when you ridiculed me for thinking an alternative to being shot in the back of the head was possible.
In one instance you cannot confirm 100%, in the other instance you seem to believe an alternative result is naïve. Are you talking real world in one, but not real world in the other?
Yes. I think the Leo attempting non lethal first validates him going lethal.Does anyone's opinion change if there was no taser at all?
What about instead of taser, it's a beer bottle, pocket knife, pipe, baseball bat?
Each could cause serious harm and could result in a officer fearing for their safety but they aren't designed to be a weapon like a taser.